Bone-in wings safe for kitten?

[silverpersian]

Hello,

I have a six-month-old kitten. I feed him Dr. Pierson's chicken recipe, with a very occasional meal of commercial canned. I have been giving him increasingly larger chunks of chicken, and he is fine with them. I tried a chicken neck a couple of days ago. He played with it (and made a mess) for the most part, but gnawed off and ate some of the meat too. I tried a wing tip yesterday, but he didn't touch it. I tried again today, but broke the wing tip (skin and bones and all) into six little chunks. He didn't eat them. He will eat anything out of my hand, so I hand-fed him a couple of chunks. Was that a safe thing to do? I am suddenly worried about the bones. He seems to swallow them - I didn't hear much crunching.

A second question: would it be alright to continue with the chicken recipe? Do I have to incorporate other meats? The canned food I give him once every two weeks or so is either beef or turkey. I am trying to ensure that he will eat canned food, in case we are ever unable to make the homemade food at some point. I give him a couple of sardines per week as well, but that is the extent of the variety. I would have to order rabbit and I can do it every once in a while, but it is too expensive to be sustainable on a regular basis. I know that the diet needs to be balanced, but I am unsure of the level of diversity required. So far, he seems to be doing really well - no vomiting, regular elimination, etc.

Many thanks for the advice. I am an engineer by trade and most of us don't do well with approximations. We like detailed specs.

 

 

[ldg]

:lol3: Well, Dr. Pierson has basically fed that diet exclusively (with small tweaks along the way, all documented in her discussion in the Making Cat Food article) for over a decade now.

If you want a recipe that is similar, but makes it easier to use different proteins as the base, you might find this helpful: http://www.catnutrition.org/

While the author of the site writes a blog, the recipe is not updated as Dr. Pierson does from time-to-time. The recipe includes psyllium as optional - I would leave it out. It can cause constipation in cats that don't need it and if fed without LOTS of water. (Cats that "need" it would be older cats that already have compromised GI systems).

As to the chicken wings, your kitten will be fine. In the wild, your cat would have been on his own for a month or two, and hunting mice, rabbits, birds, whatever he could. A chicken wing tip isn't going to be a problem. You broke them - you feel how flexible they are. They're not at all brittle, like cooked bones.

I work with feral cats, and have a colony of 11 outside. I have one cat that eats quite a few Blue Jays, and several of them that I regularly see eat mice. Basically, with the mice, they crunch them maybe 2 or 3 times (whole) - more like just working them around so they're in the mouth head first, and they just swallow them whole. The bone is encased in the meat and fur. My oldest inside pet cats weren't introduced to raw until they were 9. With the two smaller bones of the wing, I have to cut them into several pieces as well. They take the whole piece, crunch it a few times, and swallow it whole.

The "just meat" meals I feed most of my cats are 1.5 ounces. One cat I have to feed it in one chunk to slow him down. But before I did that, I'd give it to him in 2 or 3 pieces, and he'd just take them and swallow them.

Take a look at a picture of a cat's jaw (just the bones). They aren't designed to "chew." Their saliva has no amylase like a person's - and this starts the break down of carbohydrates, which our cats aren't eating. So not chewing isn't a problem, they digest their food in the stomach, the process doesn't start in the mouth. (Of course, they digest it more efficiently if it's in smaller pieces, but the not chewing isn't a "problem." It just means it'll take longer to digest).

 

[silverpersian]

Many thanks for taking the time to send me such a detailed response. I am relieved. My last (and only other cat) was 10 when I took over his care. I didn't have much luck with getting him to try new things, probably due to lack of experience and information. I am trying to start out on the right foot this time around.

Your cats are beautiful! I read their pages. I admire and respect the care and compassion you have given them. I can only imagine how much they love you in return.

 

[pinkman]

Wingtips shouldn't be no problem! My kitten is also the same age around your's  - he ate hearts/thighs, then /gizzards, then slowly went up to chicken necks/wingtips. 

Check out CatNutrition as LDG said, lots of good information.

For variation - Do you live in the States? Some of us do a combination of homemade, commercial raw, and semi-commercial (such as Hare Today). I do mostly Hare-Today and commercial. If you live on the east coast check http://hare-today.com/  for ground organ/meat/bone mixtures in different proteins. I have been having issues with feeding my older girl raw full-time, so the two cats also get some canned food, along with freeze-dried commercial raw such as Stella & Chewy's. Nothing wrong with variety! 

Of course, you can also buy your own organs, meat, and whatnot but some items may not be available at the grocery store - Hare-Today also sells organs separately, meat chunks separately, etc. 

 

[silverpersian]

Thanks for the response! If your kitten is the one in your avatar, he is beautiful! Mine seems to like gizzards. I know they are good for dental and jaw health.

I can find organic organs locally, so I don't have any trouble with duplicating Dr. Pierson's recipe. The little guy doesn't seem to have any problems with eating it. He gets excited about the occasional canned food, but he gets loose stools every time he eats canned food, regardless of the flavor or brand. Probably something to do with the additives. I haven't narrowed it down because he gets it so rarely that the experiment wouldn't be rigorous

  I'm not too worried about it, because even one meal of the homemade food, a little pumpkin, and a daily probiotic gets him back into ship shape.

I have looked at HareToday, but shipping to the midwest (US) makes it prohibitively expensive. Commercial raw isn't available locally, and what I have found online is considerably more expensive than homemade.

My concern is whether sticking mainly to chicken would be a problem. Do I HAVE to mix it up and introduce other meats? My impression from catinfo and catnutrition is that it would be fine to stick to chicken if kitty continues to eat it.

 

[Willowy]

Like LDG said, Dr. Pierson has been using that recipe exclusively for years so it is balanced and OK as the only food. I prefer more of a variety but it wouldn't be bad to feed just that---how many cats eat the same kibble for years, right?

I found the shipping for Hare Today to be pretty reasonable if I order enough. Obviously it's not cheap, but not prohibitive either. If I make the full box order of 51 pounds, shipping is around $40. . .so it adds less than a dollar per pound. It's a good way to get different kinds of meats. Definitely not as cheap as chicken thighs , but as part of the diet, not too bad, IMO.

 

[pinkman]

 
Thanks for the response! If your kitten is the one in your avatar, he is beautiful! Mine seems to like gizzards. I know they are good for dental and jaw health.

Thanks! (I think this was pointed towards me? LOL, sorry if it wasn't.) The girl in my avatar is my 3 year old Lox. I have another cat, a dude-cat who is just turning seven months.

Seconding about buying Hare-Today in BULK. Shipping is pretty reasonable if you get the 51 pounder. Of course, you'll need to have the space for it, also. From my experience, starting raw (especially using semi-commercial like Hare-Today) has a high start up cost, but in return over the long run it is cheaper than paying premo-canned food. Plus you figure in the fact that you get none of the fillers you want (binders, veggies, starches) - it's a pretty good deal. Oh! And not worrying about BPA, of course.

For variety you COULD do a freeze-dried raw food (commercial). A lot of us use http://chewy.com to buy Stella&Chewy's or Feline Natural freeze-dried food. You get free shipping after 49 (?) dollars - so what I do is buy litter in bulk and tack on some commercial freeze-dried raw. If your cat doesn't like them hydrated, you can always use them as toppers, or as treats.

 

[vball91]

Since you live in the Midwest you may want to check out My Pet Carnivore. Similar to HT but may be cheaper in shipping for you.

 

[ldg]

And depending on where you live, you can pick it up - no shipping cost. There are also some buying co-ops, you might want to join a local Yahoo raw feeding or BARF group to see about that (or contact the company, they may be aware of some).

http://www.mypetcarnivore.com.