Bailing on Raw for One Cat: Slow Eater!

[aprilprey]

I think I may have to give up on feeding raw for my older (12 yr old) cat.  Why?  She eats too ******** slow - that's the main concern.  It takes her hours (8 or more) to consume what I put out for her - she must eat a teaspoon at a time, if that.  So far, she's been fine with the 50/50 canned/raw mix being left out for 12 hours - but I do not want to push my luck.  At this point in her life, she's not going to start gulping down food - even when she's clearly very hungry (maybe feeding time is late ) that food goes down one teaspoon at a time.  That is not a battle I want to fight.  I think the fastest she's cleared her plate is 4 hours!

My other cat?  The food is gone in 5 minutes....hardly time to get to room temperature!  No worries there.

But for Boo?  I think raw is going to be an occasional indulgence for her - like a fresh salad accompanying a nice bowl of soup or stew - a spoonful here and there.   Not only that, I've come to the conclusion that she HATES chicken and poultry.  HATES it - hates it cooked, hates it semi-cooked, hates it raw.  Poultry is such a big part of raw - or tends to be - not that it has to be.  Given the reasonable cost of poultry vs. other meats....it would be hard to ditch poultry altogether.

I did get some TCFeline to try with beef - we'll see how that goes over.  But - we work too damn hard on that chicken to see it go to waste!

Did anyone else have to bail on raw due to a slowpoke eater?  I am hoping beef goes over a little better - the lower volume of raw food would, I think, be to her advantage - less to eat overall!  I wish she could grasp that with her little walnut brain.

 

[Willowy]

I guess. . .I don't see it as any different from canned food :dk:.

 

[aprilprey]

I guess. . .I don't see it as any different from canned food

.

But what about the LOVE?  The LOVE that goes into each turn of the meat grinder handle???

No stinkin' love in canned food.

I am kidding and messing with you!  But seriously, at her age - just getting her off kibble and onto decent canned food is a victory.  If she continues to turn her nose up at what we make...oh well!

 

[camokitteh]

I wouldn't take them off hard food completely, because soft food is not nearly as healthy (or cheap). But to speed up the eating process you can try putting the food on a high place (so maybe on a stool) not on the ground. Because if they need to stand in thier hind legs to get to the food it will digest alot easier.

 

[Willowy]

But what about the LOVE?  The LOVE that goes into each turn of the meat grinder handle???

No stinkin' love in canned food.

I am kidding and messing with you!  But seriously, at her age - just getting her off kibble and onto decent canned food is a victory.  If she continues to turn her nose up at what we make...oh well!

No, I didn't mean raw is the same as canned nutritionally (or love-wise ). I mean regarding leaving it out. If you're comfortable leaving canned food out, why not raw? I would even guess that canned food is more likely to grow icky bacteria after sitting out than raw meat is, because meat is fairly acidic. Not that I have proof or anything, just a guess :tongue2:.

 

[Willowy]

I wouldn't take them off hard food completely, because soft food is not nearly as healthy (or cheap). But to speed up the eating process you can try putting the food on a high place (so maybe on a stool) not on the ground. Because if they need to stand in thier hind legs to get to the food it will digest alot easier.

Actually, canned food is far healthier for cats. Read this: www.catinfo.org

I would think that anything that inconvenienced an older cat would likely result in the cat eating less, not more :/.

 

[aprilprey]

I would think that anything that inconvenienced an older cat would likely result in the cat eating less, not more :/.

This. 

She lost a bit of weight after my other cat was euthanized - can't take a chance on her losing more.  Even if she refuses to move beyond fish - oh well.  Once they get to a certain age, its so hard to change anything.  I would like to have ONE other protein in her diet - she did like the raw rabbit a little more, but don't want to repeat my saga of sourcing rabbit that is not from China during the warm months (covered in another thread).  I did pick up some canned rabbit (Wysong) and have fingers crossed for that - or beef.  C'mon old lady....just ONE other protein - please?

Even though its bits of cooked fish - she does a little chewing to get those bigger chunks eaten, so that's something for her teeth, which are showing their age and years on crappy kibble.  The one advantage of raw for a cat like her is that its low volume, but high nutrition (and better for teeth).  If she's going to eat minimum volume, I'd prefer it was the highest, most nutritious stuff - which would be the stuff WE make that we know is pretty fresh.  But...I am sure she's better off with what she will eat to begin with.

She will eat Stella & Chewy's Carnivore Crunch once in a while, and I have yet to try frozen mice old enough to provide some dental benefit.  But the high nutrition/low volume + some dental workout - those would be benefits of raw I was hoping for Boo, if I can get her to like something non-poultry!

Regarding the "leaving the raw food out..." I read so many conflicting things about that!!!!!! 

"Don't leave it out more than an hour..."

"Four hours maximum..."

"Its ok to leave it out for hours...."

Again, given her age....I don't want to risk even an episode of the runs due to extra bacteria....but she....gah....that's a tough one.

 

[peaches08]

Would warming the food help? Or toppers? Is her mouth OK?

 

[aprilprey]

Would warming the food help? Or toppers? Is her mouth OK?

Already tried warming.

Toppers "help" until they are gone.

Teeth OK - but starting to show age.  She was eating dry kibble ok 3 months ago.

I COULD continue to work on her...but keep coming back to her age; weighing all the various factors, its far more important she eat something - as long as its decent quality food.

 

[ldg]

Are you using a probiotic? I think that would help mitigate the risk of food being out for some time.

...the other kitty doesn't eat food left out for Boo?

And peaches, I assume Boo's issue is that she's used to being free-fed. Moving to timed meals was more difficult for us than switching from canned to raw, and the cats that had an issue with timed meals were "only" 8 years old at the time. And I'm pretty sure the stress of that caused Lazlo's ulcers.

My kitties have been eating timed meals for almost three years now, and I still have to give an afternoon treat to Lazlo and Tuxedo.

 

[ldg]

How much food does Boo eat at one time? And how often are "meals"? And how much food should she be eating a day?

 

[Willowy]

I know there's a lot of conflicting info out there about how long to leave raw food out. . .but the same is also said about canned food. A lot of people who raw-feed their ferrets (obligate carnivores like cats) say they give the ferrets a big chunk of meat and let them work on it over several days .

And my mom has a cat who is allowed outside, and she's old and toothless so she doesn't hunt anymore, but they have a plate-glass window that birds fly into fairly regularly (yes, they've tried all the tricks), so Sonja gets to eat birds frequently. And she usually lets them lie around for 2-3 days before eating them. Ugh. So if a cat CHOOSES to eat old meat over freshly killed, I'm guessing it's not too bad. I suppose a wild bird is somewhat different than factory-farmed meat, but still.

 

[peaches08]

Keeping her eating is what's most important. I completely agree.

I had to spoon feed my old Grey (RIP) when we went from free kibble to canned with insulin injections. I remember how difficult that was with 13+ hour workdays.

 

[aprilprey]

Thanks for all the replies folks.  As far as the specific feeding questions:

Feeding times are 6am and 6pm.

I calculate Boo's raw amounts by taking her body weight x 2.5% - I probably could go to 2% but erring a bit on the side of a little extra.

Canned amounts are calculated per the label - so she's probably getting "average" cat amount - again, probably a little more than a sedentary, older cat needs.

Thus, she's probably getting a tad more than she needs in her dish...I let my younger cat clean up any leftover bits remaining by the next feeding session. They usually have all gravy licked off anyway which causes her to lose interest.

I'd say she eats about 2 teaspoons to a tablespoon at one time.  I keep reading that small, frequent meals are healthier anyhow....

And - yup, I know cats in the wild chew on old carcasses!  Again - due to her age, I am less willing to take those chances. But I'll give beef a try and I might leave that out.   I was thinking of maybe just giving her a little spoon of raw...letting her finish that...then canned for the rest.

 

[aprilprey]

Keeping her eating is what's most important. I completely agree.

I had to spoon feed my old Grey (RIP) when we went from free kibble to canned with insulin injections. I remember how difficult that was with 13+ hour workdays.

You know, she'll walk away from her dish - and if I follow her and offer her more on a spoon - she'll eat more!  Go figure - sometimes I think she just likes to see how far she can manipulate us!

 

[aprilprey]

...the other kitty doesn't eat food left out for Boo?

Oh he does if given the chance!  We cover her bowl once she walks away.  Since we are home, she has "trained" us to lift the cover off several times a day.  I agree her years of "free feeding" has probably caused this.  I try to ensure she has at least 6 hours with NO FOOD in each day - generally, I will pick up the dish at 12 noon.  Not always though.  But I do try to work in some "food free" time - depends on my resolve on any given day.  And Dexter will often get her dried up, reject bits.  He'll eat MY food if I turn my back.

 

[ldg]

I found I had to feed three meals a day, ultimately, though I did feed four meals a day for about a year. My cats would throw up bile if they went too long without food. It's still a problem when I run late with a meal, though I do seem to have an hour or so flexibility now.

If you want to try to get her on actual, timed meals, if you're home most days, I'd consider taking the daily amount of food you want her to eat, and divide it into the number of meals of food needed to get her there based on how much food she eats at one time easily. I fed my cats something like 8 meals a day at first, and I did leave out a measured amount of kibble overnight for them, as we were transitioning off kibble to canned. I gave it a few weeks, and then pulled up the kibble at night. Use the same schedule for both kitties, even though your other kitty eats just fine on the existing schedule.

Call them for the meal, whatever you want that call to be. I use the word DINNER for every meal. :lol3: (When we first started feeding wet food, it was only at dinner time - so when we introduced more wet food meals, every meal became "dinner").

Don't follow her with the spoon, and give her 10 minutes to eat what's in the dish, no matter the type of food you use. If she eats better with your presence, be there while she eats.

IF you get to the point she comes running when you call the meal(s), drop one meal, and portion that food into the remaining meals. (For your other kitty, you can give two larger meals and just little bits for the others). If she finishes that meal, give it a few days to a week, and drop another meal, &etc.

For kitties that have been free-feeding, it's all about re-training them out of the nibbling habit, and getting them used to the "meal" concept. I don't know that she'll ever do well on 2 meals a day, but 3 or 4 may work. They don't have to be evenly spaced.

 

[aprilprey]

LDG: Thanks for typing all that out - will consider it.  She's a pretty sharp cat.  We joke that if there were such a thing as a "kitty combination lock" she would be smart enough to figure it out, giving her access to her food while the other cat, too dumb to figure it out, is kept out.  Boo would just saunter up to the lock, paw in the combination, walk into her feeding area - leaving Dexter with a puzzled look on his face.

Dexter has yet to figure out the "treat in the plastic toy with holes" game, while Boo (who could care less about the treat) figured it out in 15 seconds or so.
 

 

[ldg]

You can set up a free feeding station for her that triggers with her microchip, if you like. You make it yourself: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239771/...hope-to-raw-challenges-galore/30#post_3157561

It's a few posts later, but Carolina explains how to make it.