Anyone using Instinct Freeze Dried Raw?

[Byrdie]

"NV?"

Oh that's right! Nature's Variety.

 

[sophie1]

Byrdie, I couldn't resist your cry for help here.....

It's a tough order, coming up with a simple regimen that limits costs. But, here's a suggestion for you.

First: you don't have to feed 100% raw. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! Given your situation, it would be totally reasonable to feed dry food as part of the diet, say 25%. That of course is the ultimate in convenience and low cost.

Second: is your cat actually having any problems other than not liking food with big bone chunks? Nature Variety medallions don't have big bone chunks and they're very convenient to feed. They are pricey though. If the high bone content is a problem, then I'd recommend going with boneless meats mixed with EZ Complete - that is really not much more difficult than buying frozen pet food, and that combo will be significantly cheaper than the stuff you've been buying. In fact - go find a local shop that sells good quality, fresh poultry, and ask them to give you cuts (like turkey drumsticks) that are deboned, chopped up, and separated into 1/2 lb packages. Throw these in the freezer, and defrost/mix up one package at a time to feed your cat. Super easy, once you get the routine down.

As far as Chai's problems with bone content....he was prone to vomiting after eating for years, a couple times a week at least, and I could never figure out why. Then he had an awful episode where he stopped eating completely for several days and couldn't keep anything down, turned out he had a mass of food full of bone fragments stuck in his gut and the vet finally managed to clear it out with enemas. A few months later I found blood in the litter box. He had a bladder full of struvite stones that needed to be surgically removed. His urine has been alkaline (pH 7.0 - 7.5) since then, so I guess he had some kidney damage from that. Finally I quit commercial raw and made his food aiming for ~6% bone content. It's been 2 years now. He vomits only rarely, and there's been no recurrence of either the struvite crystals or constipation.

Personally, I think it's incredibly, and even criminally irresponsible that commercial raw purveyors load up their food with bone and tell us it's a healthy choice for cats. Obviously some cats handle them just fine or they wouldn't be in business. Like, it seems others on this forum feed commercial raw to their cats with no issues, and my other cat didn't have any of these problems. But, anything that can be that disastrous to an otherwise healthy cat seems like a not very good idea.

 

[lisamarie12]

A warning about commercial raw products with bone: Since bone is super cheap, the food contains a lot of it - way too much for cats. NV for example is 15-19% bone, per email directly from the company (kudos to them for honesty). And every online raw food supplier I'm aware of offers only 10% bone mixes, even the ones who advocate feeding their products to cats. You can use boneless meat grinds or chunks to cut the bone content, though that takes some careful planning & you have to do math. Which is frustratingly complicated, but....it's so worth it for a cat to be fed raw.
Maybe it would help if more people write to these companies to ask for cat appropriate products. Almost all of them cater mainly to dogs, with cats as an afterthought. And too many people think that 10% bone is appropriate for cats. That was me for several years, until I got a wake-up call in the form of one of my cats developing medical problems as a result.

Agreed, far too bony. I was using Bixbi's freeze dried Rawabble (reconstituted always) chicken/turkey for Molly until I found out the company is using 17% bone in both proteins. This was via Chewy's Q&A, however, confirmed by the company when I inquired, ridiculous, I stopped using it.

 

[lisamarie12]

I can't either - so far.

I've been using Wysong freeze dried quail and rabbit, those two proteins, per the company, don't contain any bone. The food DOES contain veggies, however, (for me it's a trade off) although I haven't noticed that Molly has had any bulkier, increased stool waste with those veggies. She likes both a lot although the quail more so.

 

[Byrdie]

Byrdie, I couldn't resist your cry for help here.....

It's a tough order, coming up with a simple regimen that limits costs. But, here's a suggestion for you.

First: you don't have to feed 100% raw. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! Given your situation, it would be totally reasonable to feed dry food as part of the diet, say 25%. That of course is the ultimate in convenience and low cost.

Second: is your cat actually having any problems other than not liking food with big bone chunks? Nature Variety medallions don't have big bone chunks and they're very convenient to feed. They are pricey though. If the high bone content is a problem, then I'd recommend going with boneless meats mixed with EZ Complete - that is really not much more difficult than buying frozen pet food, and that combo will be significantly cheaper than the stuff you've been buying. In fact - go find a local shop that sells good quality, fresh poultry, and ask them to give you cuts (like turkey drumsticks) that are deboned, chopped up, and separated into 1/2 lb packages. Throw these in the freezer, and defrost/mix up one package at a time to feed your cat. Super easy, once you get the routine down.

As far as Chai's problems with bone content....he was prone to vomiting after eating for years, a couple times a week at least, and I could never figure out why. Then he had an awful episode where he stopped eating completely for several days and couldn't keep anything down, turned out he had a mass of food full of bone fragments stuck in his gut and the vet finally managed to clear it out with enemas. A few months later I found blood in the litter box. He had a bladder full of struvite stones that needed to be surgically removed. His urine has been alkaline (pH 7.0 - 7.5) since then, so I guess he had some kidney damage from that. Finally I quit commercial raw and made his food aiming for ~6% bone content. It's been 2 years now. He vomits only rarely, and there's been no recurrence of either the struvite crystals or constipation.

Personally, I think it's incredibly, and even criminally irresponsible that commercial raw purveyors load up their food with bone and tell us it's a healthy choice for cats. Obviously some cats handle them just fine or they wouldn't be in business. Like, it seems others on this forum feed commercial raw to their cats with no issues, and my other cat didn't have any of these problems. But, anything that can be that disastrous to an otherwise healthy cat seems like a not very good idea.

Sophie, you are an Angel. Thank you for taking the time and energy to respond!! I am so deeply sorry about Chai. Apollo also stopped eating for a while. I found a speck of blood on his bottom, and clear discharge from his rectum. There was mucous in his stool!.And a tint bit of pus. He also stopped pooping in his litter box and would "yowl" when he had to go. I think he was telling me he was hurting. I am sure it was the larger-than-appropriate, sharp pieces of bone Infound in Feline Natural!!

Why have I come to this conclusion? I listened to what Apollo was trying to tell me, and I completely withdrew raw, freeze-dried food that contains bone. Since then, Apollo's improvement is remarkable. First, his bottom is healed. It is no longer sore, red or leaking discharge. Second, he is pooping in his litter box again and no longer signaling discomfort when he has to defecate.His stool is normal and free of any pus or mucous. And finally, when I brush him he let's me brush his tummy again after a long while if swatting me if I tried. He was clearly hurting. He is better, and Inam thrilled. It took a lot of patience, listening, journaling, and even keeping spreadsheets to figure out what was causing the pooping outside the box problem- for months! (I knew it was not litterbox aversion; he has two boxes that I keep meticulously clean and he urinated in them with no hesitation whatsoever.)

The only down side to this otherwise positive shift is that I am having a really challenging time finding things that Apollo will eat. I read that cats who eat raw, freeze-dried diets for an extended period of time will not eat anything else - especially canned. I find this to be true. However, I also remembered reading that kitties' food preferences develop in their first year of life. Their preferences are derived from what their mothers ate and also what we kitty parents and guardians feed them. So I ordered Dave's Turkey Formula from you all, one of the first foods I fed Apollo when I rescued him from the woods at just about one-year-old. (He rescued me, too.) He is eating it!! However, he lacks mostly the juice, but still, it is a step in the right direction. I just need tonfind more options for him because he is so, so hungry. For now, I am feeding him Dr. Elsey’s CleanProtein Chicken (Dry). It does not have all of the darn plants, berries etc. That seem to bother him. He loves it. And the wet. I can feed him freeze-dried salmon (Bravo Bites) and freeze-dried chicken (cooked) and he will eat that. We are finding our way.

I will revisit all of your suggestions!! I already considered the EZ Complete and just bookmarked the site a few weeks ago.

My quest to take the best care possible of my precious Apollo is fueled by my deep love.for him and my steadfast compassion.

Warmly and many thanks,
Byrdie & Apollo

 

[Byrdie]

Sophie - I forgot to tell you that Apollo also had a terrible problem with constipation that is now resolved since withdrawing the Feline Natural. Lesson learned: Just because it is raw, and everyone uses it because it is healthy for kitties, does NOT always mean it is RIGHT for them!

 

[Byrdie]

Sophie, you are an Angel. Thank you for taking the time and energy to respond!! I am so deeply sorry about Chai. Apollo also stopped eating for a while. I found a speck of blood on his bottom, and clear discharge from his rectum. There was mucous in his stool!.And a tint bit of pus. He also stopped pooping in his litter box and would "yowl" when he had to go. I think he was telling me he was hurting. I am sure it was the larger-than-appropriate, sharp pieces of bone Infound in Feline Natural!!

Why have I come to this conclusion? I listened to what Apollo was trying to tell me, and I completely withdrew raw, freeze-dried food that contains bone. Since then, Apollo's improvement is remarkable. First, his bottom is healed. It is no longer sore, red or leaking discharge. Second, he is pooping in his litter box again and no longer signaling discomfort when he has to defecate.His stool is normal and free of any pus or mucous. And finally, when I brush him he let's me brush his tummy again after a long while if swatting me if I tried. He was clearly hurting. He is better, and Inam thrilled. It took a lot of patience, listening, journaling, and even keeping spreadsheets to figure out what was causing the pooping outside the box problem- for months! (I knew it was not litterbox aversion; he has two boxes that I keep meticulously clean and he urinated in them with no hesitation whatsoever.)

The only down side to this otherwise positive shift is that I am having a really challenging time finding things that Apollo will eat. I read that cats who eat raw, freeze-dried diets for an extended period of time will not eat anything else - especially canned. I find this to be true. However, I also remembered reading that kitties' food preferences develop in their first year of life. Their preferences are derived from what their mothers ate and also what we kitty parents and guardians feed them. So I ordered Dave's Turkey Formula from you all, one of the first foods I fed Apollo when I rescued him from the woods at just about one-year-old. (He rescued me, too.) He is eating it!! However, he lacks mostly the juice, but still, it is a step in the right direction. I just need tonfind more options for him because he is so, so hungry. For now, I am feeding him Dr. Elsey’s CleanProtein Chicken (Dry). It does not have all of the darn plants, berries etc. That seem to bother him. He loves it. And the wet. I can feed him freeze-dried salmon (Bravo Bites) and freeze-dried chicken (cooked) and he will eat that. We are finding our way.

I will revisit all of your suggestions!! I already considered the EZ Complete and just bookmarked the site a few weeks ago.

My quest to take the best care possible of my precious Apollo is fueled by my deep love.for him and my steadfast compassion.

Warmly and many thanks,
Byrdie & Apollo

Sophie - I forgot to tell you that Apollo also had a terrible problem with constipation that is now resolved since withdrawing the Feline Natural. Lesson learned: Just because it is raw, and everyone uses it because it is healthy for kitties, does NOT always mean it is RIGHT for them!

 

[sophie1]

Wow, great story about Apollo....

My cats both started vomiting after meals again, and I've started to suspect that the Viva Raw chubs contain more bone than they claim (10%). Since I have boneless meat chubs that I use to mix into those, I started making them boneless food with EZ Complete or Alnutrin with calcium + ground organ mix. They get this in the morning, which is the meal after which they were most prone to vomiting. The vomiting has completely stopped, and both cats are happier and more energetic.

Real bone is much better for cats than eggshell powder or limestone calcium, so maybe this new regimen limiting bone-in grinds to half their diet will be a good compromise.