Flea Treatment ... Pondering The Logic

MissClouseau said:

For one thing, the amount. Cat also gets exposed to far more flea medicine if you also use it at home.

Also more treatment might not be needed. My cat is on a monthly flea medicine and she goes outside daily, like my dog too. We never had a flea infestation.

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Interesting.

Do you have a scientific study that backs up the assertion that an animal absorbs more of a properly applied premise spray than it does a monthly topical product applied directly to the animal? I'd like to see the research if it exists. Otherwise, aside from reactions in hypersensitive animals (which occurs with spot on treatments as well), my common sense (which could be flawed) tells me that there would be less chance of absorption of a premise spray compared to a spot on. Especially those topicals (and orals) which work by entering the bloodstream of the cat.

darg said:

Especially those topicals (and orals) which work by entering the bloodstream of the cat.

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That's why and how it works. Otherwise, with a spray in the house, you are not protecting the cat from the fleas that land on her. So either we will use a spray in the house AND a spot-on treatment on the cat, so the cat will get it from all kinds of sources (and naturally will get more in amount), or we wil use a spot-on treatment and keep the house clean so at least she will only get flea medicine from one source.

The same reason I don't use Raid spray except for the kitchen in couple months -- the cat and dog are not allowed to the kitchen and I get cockroaches every May-June there. With a spray kind of thingy they inhale it AND they might even lick it. Not to mention everyone else in the house inhales it too.

MissClouseau said:

That's why and how it works. Otherwise, with a spray in the house, you are not protecting the cat from the fleas that land on her. So either we will use a spray in the house AND a spot-on treatment on the cat, so the cat will get it from all kinds of sources (and naturally will get more in amount), or we wil use a spot-on treatment and keep the house clean so at least she will only get flea medicine from one source.

The same reason I don't use Raid spray except for the kitchen in couple months -- the cat and dog are not allowed to the kitchen and I get cockroaches every May-June there. With a spray kind of thingy they inhale it AND they might even lick it. Not to mention everyone else in the house inhales it too.

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I'm not sure we are on the same page here. But at any rate, my contention is that the pet is exposed to far more toxin by direct application of a spot on treatment or an oral flea preventative than it is by any remaining residual from a properly applied premise spray.

To be clear again ... I hate using insecticides inside the home and I haven't had to treat the premises for fleas for several years. I use roach baits that are hidden out of reach to kill roaches and they work great. But again, if I do have another flea infestation inside the home, I personally would not hesitate to use a combination adulticide and IGR spray to take care of the problem and be done with it. In addition I hate, with a passion, the fact that I have to use a topical insecticide on the cat. It's an ongoing necessary evil here down south.

My contention, once again, is that the animals are exposed to far more toxins from spot on or oral treatments/preventatives than they are from an approved and properly applied premise treatment. Thus my original question (more of a rhetorical one, I suppose) of why pet owners give little thought to regularly applying toxic chemicals in the form of spot-ons to their pets but freak out about treating the premises with chemicals if it becomes necessary. And again, I'm not judging those who think this way. We all do what we think is best. I personally just don't see a whole lot of logic in it. That's all.

Thanks

di and bob said:

I don't believe in subjecting a cat to topical, or any treatment, unless a problem is actually there, that fleas are actually present. My cats are srictly indoor now, but I have had indoor outdoor cats for almost 15 years at our present house and have NEVER had to treat for fleas. That would be like giving chemo every day to prevent cancer. I know there are natural methods out there too for home use. Vacuuming is one of the best ways to prevent/treat for fleas and head lice too.You'd be surprised how many people say they can't get rid of either and that they have cleaned thouroughl, and their house has pile of clothes laying around, trash everywhere and filthy conditions. I have had to inspect home conditions when the schools have had repeat outbreaks from the same family. Fleas were harder to get rid of then head lice!

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Usually we don’t get to see fleas until there’s serious infestation though.

The circumstances matter. My cat is indoor-outdoor and she gets close to stray cats of the condominium and dogs daily. Even if she was indoor-only I have a dog too. I can’t imagine a cat/dog who interacts with other animals, go without a spot-on treatment, and stay parasite-free.

We treat the dog, we've always treated the dogs since they go in and out. Treating the dog seems to take care of the fleas and mosquitoes. When we first got the the first dog we had the treatment that didn't do mosquitoes and I killed 8 or more every night in the house in the spring. The vet suggested the treatment that covers mosquitoes and the first day we used it no more mosquitoes in the house. No fleas. Do dogs run hotter than cats? Or are fleas inclined to stay with the dogs when they start with the dogs?

We used the Adams and the vacuum, see previous post, before we had dogs, years before. I'm not sure there were topicals at that time. We were not going to put collars on the cats and risk them getting the flea medicine collar stuck in their mouths while we were at work, perhaps sucking on the pesticide for hours. Nope, not going there.

I think it started because the older premise sprays usually used permethrin or pyrethrin, which are toxic to cats. Now there are a lot more choices.

Many premise sprays still contain pyrethrin or permethrin. The products are still considered safe for cats as long as applied correctly and allowed to dry fully before the animals inhabit the area. But there are plenty of other insecticides now that don't contain them. So at least it's good that we have more choices if we have to go down that road.

I can't speak for anyone else, but down south here, before the availability of spot-on's, fleas were a constant battle. I don't like the thought of using them and never have but consider them a necessary evil, so to speak.

I agree.
We use a monthly topical on the cats.
We spray the yard every 2 months as well. Have a 25 gallon tank sprayer that mounts on the atv or the tractor. We empty if four times every month from the house to several hundred feet away. Then make a pass way out at the perimeter of where woods begin to meet yard. Then passes down all of our walking and atv trails through the woods and around the pond and creek.
We also spray inside the house every six months with an IGR flea spray designed to last 8 months. Along with bombs in the attic and in the crawlspace.

We have used Revolution and Advantage (original and II) before, and would use it again if a problem showed up. We don't dose monthly and only use it if there's a problem forming.
A few years ago we dosed everyone all summer long and everyone had fleas. We haven't used anything on the animals since then and we have had no fleas.
What concerns me is the rate of increase in strength of these flea medications in just the past few decades. Adams flea powder used to work just fine, today it's garbage. Frontline used to work just fine, then Frontline Plus, and everyone says they don't work anymore. Advantage used to work for everyone, now they had to come out with Advantage II. K-9 Advantix works wonders for fleas and ticks on dogs, but it's so toxic to cats vets tell their clients to keep the dog and cat separate for at least 24 hours, because even the cat rubbing against the dog then self grooming can cause harm. Other medications were replaced with more high powered things that have been known to cause some pretty serious side effects (like death, even though that's not really a "side effect" ) because what used to work doesn't anymore. So you gotta use something stronger. None of them have been on the market long enough to satisfy me, because we don't know what the long term effects are in life-long use, or on any animal's progeny that is exposed to it while nursing from the mama. One Product was pulled from the shelves after 3 years because of so many complaints, and re-released under a different name.
It makes me wonder in the back of my mind how long is it going to take before there is nothing strong enough to work anymore without killing our pets or causing serious harm in a single dose?
In our experience, fleas really like an unhealthy host, and like to attack the very young and very old. It doesn't help much if you've got one cat, but if you have 4 living inside, and one cat is covered with hundreds of fleas and the other 3 remain flea-free, you need to concentrate on why that cat is so attractive to fleas and work on building their health in any way you can.

1 bruce 1 said:

...What concerns me is the rate of increase in strength of these flea medications in just the past few decades. Adams flea powder used to work just fine, today it's garbage. Frontline used to work just fine, then Frontline Plus, and everyone says they don't work anymore. Advantage used to work for everyone, now they had to come out with Advantage II. ...

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I can only speak to Bayer's Advantage because that's all that I've been using for the past 20 years or so. Advantage II has the IGR (insect growth regulator) Pyriproxyfen added to the formula. The adulticide, Imidicloprid, is the same ingredient and strength that was in the original Advantage. Personally, I think the addition of the IGR was probably a smart move by Bayer. As long as the pet doesn't have a reaction to it, it helps make it a more effective product. But it doesn't really increase the strength of the product. Again, the adulticide was not changed. The IGR adds to the effectiveness by preventing flea eggs and larvae from becoming biting fleas.

Advantage appears to be just as effective to me as it was when it first came out. There are reports of flea resistance to Advantage and some of the other, older, Spot-ons. I don't doubt that there is some resistance. Thankfully, I haven't experienced any.

I have never used a preventative flea or topical treatment with any of my cats in all my life of owning cats... never had a problem. This is primarily indoor cats but also when we had outdoor cats as a kid. If I had outdoor cats now I might reconsider but I don’t do it for indoor.