Been Trying To Introduce Cats For 5 Months To No Success

Not sure what to do but to ask for help. Been trying to mingle since November. I have read all of the usual Jackson Galaxy stuff like everybody else. Here's the journey so far:

Introduced them too quick. They resident cat didn't like the new cat immediately, but they kept their distance , so we let them mingle with supervision within a few days. We then allowed open door for the third or fourth night and then an attack broke out when we were asleep. There has been war ever since.

Slow introduction for weeks. Somebody finally suggested that it was playfighting, so we let them go at it. This turned into the new cat surprise attacking the resident cat when she exited her litterbox. This was the beginning of January. We had a vacation the day after and asked tried to inform our cat sitter to keep them separated instead of mingling at all. He didn't get the memo and a fight broke out when he wasn't paying attention. When we got back we noticed little blood spots on our bedroom door. Not sure if it is from that fight or the litterbox attack or something else we had just never noticed before.

Then we did a slow reintroduction. Kept them separated fully for a few weeks and have been doing site swaps ever since. We let them go in the same room for wet food and laser pointer time (in particular because we can use he laser as a distraction to stop a fight before it happens).

So here we are in the present. Our resident cat seems mostly calm, but you can still tell she is on the defensive and could pounce herself at anytime if the other cat warrants it. The new cat is always in stalker mode unless distracted by food/laser. She will attack if we don't supervise. 100%

While I am not certain that it isn't a playfight, I would say the signals that its a real fight are the dialiated pupils that they both get (especially the aggressoe), the swishing tail that he resident cat gets as a sign of aggitation, and the fact that they both are just fixated on each other when they are together. There is never a focus on anything else but the enemy whether it is the stalker or the defender.

Both probably need a vet checkup. That's probably what the advise I will receive will amount to. The resident cat is due for shots and the new cat had a vet check up soon before adoption, so we have her to take her ourselves which is probably neglectful on our part. I heard that cats get aggressive when they don't recognize another cats small because they pick up the vet scent, so I have been hesitant to take either since that seems like it can reset any progress we have actually made, but at this point it seems like we have just been at square 1 or square 2 for so long that we may as well just stunt that progress with vet trips. Other than medicating, I just don't know what a vet will do beside quoting the same reintroduction techniques that I have read over and over 100 times for the last 5 months.

Both have claws that they refuse to let us trim so we can't let them fight it our. We live in a one-bedroom apartment with limited space and are working on a bigger space, but don't want to assume that will fix anything. Feliway multicat plugged into living room and bedroom and feel like wastes of money at this point. (Have not given them a full month to kick in, but previously had one plugged in the living room for a month and a half before he litterbox fight to no effect).

So...any advise? Insight? Questions? They both love us and want to cuddle and be normal cute cats, but they won't do anything but fixate on each other when together.

Hi! Welcome!!

Taking them both to the vet at the same time could be helpful in rewiring their brains regarding the territory "thing". While they're gone, eliminate the feliway for the time being and spray your place with one of the products I'll list for you below.

Take a look at these articles;

How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction

Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do)

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

Music can be quite useful in helping a cat to relax (not 24 hours a day, just now and then for a couple hours or so).
Try Low volume classical harp music, there is an app called Relax My Cat, and there's MusicForCats . com as some sources.

I've read that feliway can actually make things worse in some instances, and I'm thinking this might be one of those cases.

There are treats, collars, diffusers etc made by many companies.
Here are other products I would suggest you consider;
For example, Only Natural Pet has a spray product called Just Relax Calming spray with essential oil (catnip oil).

There's this one, be sure and scroll all the way down the page;
Bach Flower Remedies - Rescue Remedy Pets Dogs Cats Horses Birds

You could try one of these, only a small selection of a fast-growing section of pet products;
Richard's Organics Pet Calm-this one is drops that you put on the tip of the tongue. Also, Quiet Moments Cat treats, there is Calming Care, Calm-o-mile, Sentry, Natures Miracle calming spray, Vetri-Science's Composure is another item to look at, Pet Remedy (it has valerian) is yet another, as is Essential Pet Pet-ease, Only Natural Pet (brand and website) has calming products, Pet Naturals also has one I believe.

Also Thunderease has diffusers as does Sentry, Comfort Zone and feliway although diffusers are expensive and not always the answer.
If it's legal where you are, you might want to check with your vet but some people have good results with CBD oil, plus there are vet-prescribed calming products too.
Lambert Vet Supply is a website to look at, and of course chewy, also there's Petwishpros, animaleo, Petco and PetSmart, and other pet stores.

There is also a product called a lickimat which could be helpful, as cats can be calmed by the process of licking. The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats

This discussion's post talks about some other products;
Calming Treats For A Very Picky Cat

Hello and welcome to TCS. Sorry it's cat introduction issues that brought you here.

How old are the cats? Are they both spayed?

LooseSeal88 said:

Both probably need a vet checkup.

[snip]

I heard that cats get aggressive when they don't recognize another cats small because they pick up the vet scent, so I have been hesitant to take either since that seems like it can reset any progress we have actually made, but at this point it seems like we have just been at square 1 or square 2 for so long that we may as well just stunt that progress with vet trips.

Click to expand...

My suggestion, which Furballsmom already mentioned, is to get a 2nd cat carrier and take them both to the vet at the same time. We have members who actually take both cats to the vet, when only one needs to go, simply to ensure they both come home smelling the same. There's even the small chance that your cats will "bond" over the stressful vet visit, and be less aggressive when they come home. So it's worth trying.

And after the vet visit, you could try putting the new cat in one room of his own, if just the bathroom, and redoing the introductions, yet again.

If it wasn't for the blood, I would say just let them be. We always say that hissing and growling are ok, and just a cats way of communicating. But fur flying, blood or a stressed cat are concerning.

Hopefully in time, things will work out, and even if they don't become besties, hopefully they'll learn to peacefully co-exist.

What are the noises like? I mean, you did mention one incident with blood, but may as well drill down and see if that is really the full story. For actual fighting I'd look at: (1) noises: growling and hissing proceeding the contact, sometimes screaming/yowling; (2) puffy tail (this is kind of rare, but always a good indication of high stress related perception of actual danger); (3) hair pulled out, again, not always present, but when it is, a decent sign of true aggression (though it does happen sometimes with too aggressive play) and (4) evidence of injuries, usually scratches on face or ears -- you have blood, so you have at least one scratch somewhere, but one scratch can be a stray nail, a mistake.

Agree that I would also like to know the ages.

I agree with what others have said about bringing both cats to the vet at the same time. While there, tell them to clip the claws.

Other than doing a reintroduction after coming home from the vet, I don't really know what else to say as I'm sure you've tried it all, but just in case, I'll list a bunch of stuff.

-create safe room for the new cat to stay in
-feed on opposite sides of the door
-eventually leave door open and block with stacked baby gates
-play and give treats as well as feed on opposite sides of baby gates
-site swapping
-scent swapping, 1) rubbing a cloth on one, then the other, then back to first one again. 2) switching out used blankets, beds and toys between house and safe room.
-if and when you can have them in the same room, be sure there are several high places for BOTH of them to be able to perch on. Maybe they feel like there isn't enough territory to share, and vertical space is an excellent way to create more territory.
-try to set up your house where there are little to no places for anyone to hide to do an ambush attack on the other. obviously there will be a few places, but just try your best.
-you could also put a bell on their collars so they know where the other is at all times. That will make stalking and sneaking around pretty impossible. Be sure you get breakaway collars if you don't have them already.
-I would do what Furballsmom said about getting rid of the feliway for now, as mentioned, it can sometimes make things worse.

I'll come back if I think of more things.

2 females are very protective over territory. Really, more so than 2 males and much more than a female/male combo. 5 months isn't long in a cat's world, mine kept fighting for almost a year before they finally called a truce. Blood means they are serious, this is no play fighting. Being able to see and observe each other without being able to have contact, like through a screen door, or having one in a pen and then interchanging them would work. But it takes months.
Definitely take BOTH to the vet if they have to go, vet visits definitely would set them back if only one goes.
There are calming meds on Amazon that work well, They are herbal. You might look at teh ingredients and ask your vet, I only gave about a 4th of what it said to give and it worked wonders for vet visits that really stressed one of my cats out.

Oh, I feel your pain! We introduced a third cat and it was probably 5-7 months before our territorial resident cat stopped chasing the new cat every time. There were a few tackles and some blood (torn claw, scratches) and it was so stressful on the humans!

Now it’s been about 1.5 years and we are in a hotel after a big move. They are sitting on the bed near each other and even got close enough to sniff each other. Sounds like you are doing everything right, and they are fixated on each other but not attempting actual murder. Other than a cross country move like us, hopefully it will just take a lot of time. Try and keep positive and take breaks now and again to destress yourselves.

As for the tiny territory, do they have opportunities to climb up? Like cat shelves, bookcases, above the fridge? Making the Jackson Galaxy cat super highway is very helpful in letting them near each other but able to escape or avoid each other.

ArtNJ said:

What are the noises like? I mean, you did mention one incident with blood, but may as well drill down and see if that is really the full story. For actual fighting I'd look at: (1) noises: growling and hissing proceeding the contact, sometimes screaming/yowling; (2) puffy tail (this is kind of rare, but always a good indication of high stress related perception of actual danger); (3) hair pulled out, again, not always present, but when it is, a decent sign of true aggression (though it does happen sometimes with too aggressive play) and (4) evidence of injuries, usually scratches on face or ears -- you have blood, so you have at least one scratch somewhere, but one scratch can be a stray nail, a mistake.

Agree that I would also like to know the ages.

Click to expand...

ArtNJ said:

What are the noises like? I mean, you did mention one incident with blood, but may as well drill down and see if that is really the full story. For actual fighting I'd look at: (1) noises: growling and hissing proceeding the contact, sometimes screaming/yowling; (2) puffy tail (this is kind of rare, but always a good indication of high stress related perception of actual danger); (3) hair pulled out, again, not always present, but when it is, a decent sign of true aggression (though it does happen sometimes with too aggressive play) and (4) evidence of injuries, usually scratches on face or ears -- you have blood, so you have at least one scratch somewhere, but one scratch can be a stray nail, a mistake.

Agree that I would also like to know the ages.

Click to expand...

The resident cat will hiss when attacked. No other noises from either. The newer cat has errect fur (I think) when stalking. It kinda sticks up in little waves. Both get very dialiated pupils.

Both are female tortoise shell cats. They came from the same cat cafe and lived together with many other cats before our adoption. The resident is around 2 years old, I think. The newer cat age was unclear, but the cafe thought she was 3 to 5.

Furballsmom said:

Hi! Welcome!!

Taking them both to the vet at the same time could be helpful in rewiring their brains regarding the territory "thing". While they're gone, eliminate the feliway for the time being and spray your place with one of the products I'll list for you below.

Take a look at these articles;

How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction

Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do)

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

Music can be quite useful in helping a cat to relax (not 24 hours a day, just now and then for a couple hours or so).
Try Low volume classical harp music, there is an app called Relax My Cat, and there's MusicForCats . com as some sources.

I've read that feliway can actually make things worse in some instances, and I'm thinking this might be one of those cases.

There are treats, collars, diffusers etc made by many companies.
Here are other products I would suggest you consider;
For example, Only Natural Pet has a spray product called Just Relax Calming spray with essential oil (catnip oil).

There's this one, be sure and scroll all the way down the page;
Bach Flower Remedies - Rescue Remedy Pets Dogs Cats Horses Birds

You could try one of these, only a small selection of a fast-growing section of pet products;
Richard's Organics Pet Calm-this one is drops that you put on the tip of the tongue. Also, Quiet Moments Cat treats, there is Calming Care, Calm-o-mile, Sentry, Natures Miracle calming spray, Vetri-Science's Composure is another item to look at, Pet Remedy (it has valerian) is yet another, as is Essential Pet Pet-ease, Only Natural Pet (brand and website) has calming products, Pet Naturals also has one I believe.

Also Thunderease has diffusers as does Sentry, Comfort Zone and feliway although diffusers are expensive and not always the answer.
If it's legal where you are, you might want to check with your vet but some people have good results with CBD oil, plus there are vet-prescribed calming products too.
Lambert Vet Supply is a website to look at, and of course chewy, also there's Petwishpros, animaleo, Petco and PetSmart, and other pet stores.

There is also a product called a lickimat which could be helpful, as cats can be calmed by the process of licking. The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats

This discussion's post talks about some other products;
Calming Treats For A Very Picky Cat

Click to expand...

Thank you for all of this advise!

rubysmama said:

Hello and welcome to TCS. Sorry it's cat introduction issues that brought you here.

How old are the cats? Are they both spayed?



My suggestion, which Furballsmom already mentioned, is to get a 2nd cat carrier and take them both to the vet at the same time. We have members who actually take both cats to the vet, when only one needs to go, simply to ensure they both come home smelling the same. There's even the small chance that your cats will "bond" over the stressful vet visit, and be less aggressive when they come home. So it's worth trying.

And after the vet visit, you could try putting the new cat in one room of his own, if just the bathroom, and redoing the introductions, yet again.

If it wasn't for the blood, I would say just let them be. We always say that hissing and growling are ok, and just a cats way of communicating. But fur flying, blood or a stressed cat are concerning.

Hopefully in time, things will work out, and even if they don't become besties, hopefully they'll learn to peacefully co-exist.

Click to expand...

I like this idea, thank you. Yeah, I wish I knew the blood source. My wife is pretty clumsy, so it could have been her sometime and she forgot, but a cat fight seems more likely... particularly the one that happened when we were not home.

Jem said:

I agree with what others have said about bringing both cats to the vet at the same time. While there, tell them to clip the claws.

Other than doing a reintroduction after coming home from the vet, I don't really know what else to say as I'm sure you've tried it all, but just in case, I'll list a bunch of stuff.

-create safe room for the new cat to stay in
-feed on opposite sides of the door
-eventually leave door open and block with stacked baby gates
-play and give treats as well as feed on opposite sides of baby gates
-site swapping
-scent swapping, 1) rubbing a cloth on one, then the other, then back to first one again. 2) switching out used blankets, beds and toys between house and safe room.
-if and when you can have them in the same room, be sure there are several high places for BOTH of them to be able to perch on. Maybe they feel like there isn't enough territory to share, and vertical space is an excellent way to create more territory.
-try to set up your house where there are little to no places for anyone to hide to do an ambush attack on the other. obviously there will be a few places, but just try your best.
-you could also put a bell on their collars so they know where the other is at all times. That will make stalking and sneaking around pretty impossible. Be sure you get breakaway collars if you don't have them already.
-I would do what Furballsmom said about getting rid of the feliway for now, as mentioned, it can sometimes make things worse.

I'll come back if I think of more things.

Click to expand...

Ah, I actually pulled the bell off the collar that we do have because of all the noise when we are sleeping. Maybe I should bell them both up. Hmm

Adding vertical space is a goal, but we really do need the larger apartment/home to apply that.

di and bob said:

2 females are very protective over territory. Really, more so than 2 males and much more than a female/male combo. 5 months isn't long in a cat's world, mine kept fighting for almost a year before they finally called a truce. Blood means they are serious, this is no play fighting. Being able to see and observe each other without being able to have contact, like through a screen door, or having one in a pen and then interchanging them would work. But it takes months.
Definitely take BOTH to the vet if they have to go, vet visits definitely would set them back if only one goes.
There are calming meds on Amazon that work well, They are herbal. You might look at teh ingredients and ask your vet, I only gave about a 4th of what it said to give and it worked wonders for vet visits that really stressed one of my cats out.

Click to expand...

I have heard of the screen doors/baby gates, but don't know how to install one. Would this be practical in a rental apartment where the room we are separating is a bedroom? How would a baby gate work of the cats can jump over it?

KarenKat said:

Oh, I feel your pain! We introduced a third cat and it was probably 5-7 months before our territorial resident cat stopped chasing the new cat every time. There were a few tackles and some blood (torn claw, scratches) and it was so stressful on the humans!

Now it’s been about 1.5 years and we are in a hotel after a big move. They are sitting on the bed near each other and even got close enough to sniff each other. Sounds like you are doing everything right, and they are fixated on each other but not attempting actual murder. Other than a cross country move like us, hopefully it will just take a lot of time. Try and keep positive and take breaks now and again to destress yourselves.

As for the tiny territory, do they have opportunities to climb up? Like cat shelves, bookcases, above the fridge? Making the Jackson Galaxy cat super highway is very helpful in letting them near each other but able to escape or avoid each other.

Click to expand...

We have one cat tower. I would like another but we can't with the space we have. Other high areas aren't good car climbing areas and they have both adjusted to just not going to those areas. The resident cat liked above he fridge but just kinda stopped going up there. All the cereal boxes up there maybe deter her if she doesn't see space for her.

I agree with breaks to destress. That is part of how this is so dragged out. I get burnt out focusing on it daily. In fact, this post was out of my desparation/depression last night because the previous day's mingling seemed like a great step forward only for yesterday to fell like nothing had ever changed.

LooseSeal88 said:

How would a baby gate work of the cats can jump over it?

Click to expand...

It's a pain in the butt, but you stack several on top of each other, we had to this once. You can get the ones that don't screw into the wall, they are adjustable and get squeezed in the door frame.

Here's a couple more TCS articles that might be helpful:
Why Do Cats Attack? | TheCatSite
Are My Cats Fighting Or Playing? | TheCatSite

LooseSeal88 said:

I have heard of the screen doors/baby gates, but don't know how to install one.

Click to expand...

There's a pic in this article: How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

Well, its hard to say for sure. Among other things, you didn't give the ages, which matters because young cats are often wanting to play all the time -- but not all of them. I'm not at all sure that the aggressor is intending to actually fight here. Also, it doesn't sound like you have left them together under *your* supervision -- not the sitters -- for more than a little bit at the time.

Here is why it matters: young cats often love to play fight. And its quite common for only one to want to do it. If they are always separated, the cat that wants to do it suddenly sees the other cat, its like a new toy, its like Christmas morning! Of course it is going to be on the play-hunt immediately and for maybe hours.

So here is what I would do when you are home on the weekend. Saturday morning, put them together. Watch. Let them go. If the aggressor initiates, but the other cat just wants run away, let them go. Watch some videos of cats fighting vs playing. Take a video for us. But most importantly, give them a full day, if there is no actual rolling around with shrieking or injuries. Separate them at night, and try again tomorrow -- if there was no actual fighting. This gets past the "its Christmas morning" thing. Sometimes they can get it out of their system and start to coexist.

ArtNJ said:

Among other things, you didn't give the ages, which matters because young cats are often wanting to play all the time -- but not all of them.

Click to expand...

A ArtNJ : L LooseSeal88 mentioned their ages in one of their replies. Here's the quote from upthread:

LooseSeal88 said:

Both are female tortoise shell cats. They came from the same cat cafe and lived together with many other cats before our adoption. The resident is around 2 years old, I think. The newer cat age was unclear, but the cafe thought she was 3 to 5.

Click to expand...

Thx rubysmama - 3-5 is certainly still young enough to drive a less active/more skittish crazy with play hunting. Not saying it has to be that...sometimes hostile true aggressors are silent, but I don't think we heard enough to decide either way.

ArtNJ said:

Thx rubysmama - 3-5 is certainly still young enough to drive a less active/more skittish crazy with play hunting. Not saying it has to be that...sometimes hostile true aggressors are silent, but I don't think we heard enough to decide either way.

Click to expand...

Sorry for the confusion. I was struggling with this forum formatting on mobile on my lunch break. I think you may be right, however, what about the litterbox/resource defending. Isn't that probelmatic? I had a video of that attack, but I think I lost it.

Jem said:

It's a pain in the butt, but you stack several on top of each other, we had to this once. You can get the ones that don't screw into the wall, they are adjustable and get squeezed in the door frame.

Click to expand...

Ooh. I will consider that.