Litterbox Troubles...

So, I have two cats of my own in my apartment, Jack and Jill. They're brother and sister, 3-year-old Siamese mixes, and they both came from the same rescue. The rescue listed them as a pair that needed to be adopted together, because Jill stopped using the litter box entirely in her previous home when the previous owners returned Jack (he did not get along with their other cats.) I adopted them in October of last year, and was assured by their foster mom that Jill was displaying proper box manners again.

The trouble is, since a few days after I brought them home, Jill has consistently been pooping right next to the litter box instead of inside it. She occasionally poops in the box, and she's never peed outside of the box, but no matter what we try she just keeps doing it, and I've tried quite a bit:

-Four different styles of box (covered, uncovered, low side, high side, sifting, etc.; their fave is a really big rubbermaid tub with low sides)
-Five different locations (their fave is the closet)
-Three different litters, all unscented (currently on Frisco multi-cat clumping litter, doesn't seem to make much difference to them one way or the other)
-With and without litterbox liners
-Scooping every other day (due to having 3-4 boxes around at any given time in this process), scooping daily, now we're scooping twice a day
-Full, thorough washings of the boxes when doing full litter swaps with gentle, low-odor cleaners and lots of rinsing
-Thoroughly cleaning the carpet around the affected boxes with an enzymatic pet-stain cleaner (her messes aren't liquid-y, thank the LORD)
-Different depths of litter, from low (1 1/2 inch, where they can dig out a corner if they want) to high (4+ inches)

There are two other pets in the apartment; my roommate's German shepherd, Sadie, and my other roommate's cat, Kuzco. Jill displayed this behavior before Kuzco was adopted. Everyone is vaccinated, dewormed, etc.; only Kuzco is not neutered yet; Jack and Jill get monthly flea/tick/heartworm treatment; only Sadie goes outside. No sign of any illness, fleas, etc. They get Greenies dental, hairball, and organic chicken and sweet potato treats pretty regularly (usually less than the max amount allowed on the packages) and 1/2 cup each of Nutro Grain-Free Duck & Potato dry food daily, split between 2 feedings. They have plenty of toys, soft warm sleeping spaces, hiding spots, and scratching materials, including a large cat tree in the living room. Sadie and Kuzco are not allowed into our room, so they always have a private area. They generally stay in whatever room we're in, or in our room if they're napping a lot. There's almost always someone home, but when nobody is home we shut them in our room and leave the window blinds up so they can look out the window, which they love; I'm thinking of getting them a window bed!

My boyfriend is thankfully willing to go to just as great lengths to resolve the problem as I am; we love our little fluffs and want to make sure they have the longest, happiest lives with us as possible! We're starting to run out of ideas, however. Does anyone have any suggestions? See any red flags in our care routine? Any help would be extremely appreciated!

This is Jill...



And this is Jack!

Hi - thanks so much for coming here!! You've obviously done a LOT already!
There might be something in the following articles that may help;
How To Solve Litterbox Problems In Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Litterbox Problems? Here's Why You Should Call Your Vet
16 Experts Reveal The Most Common Litterbox Mistakes (and How To Avoid Them)

If possible, I would also do something else, actually a couple things - if you don't already have one, obtain a water fountain to increase water intake, and start them on wet food.
Pouch food is good from the aspect of more gravy typically than canned. Also you could look into multiple brands for variety of proteins and also different ratios of ingredients, as well as avoiding too much exposure to any one bad additive. In addition, a food like Merrick Backcountry rabbit gives them an additional bit of variety.
EDIT: You could maybe decrease the greenies (I have heard bad things about them but I have no idea how accurate) and try a treat brand called Purebites - I've read good things about those.
EDIT #2 - there are tempting toppers like tuna and non-onion/non-garlic baby food etc that can help them transition to wet food if you have problems there, or even mixing in the treats to convince their noses that the new food is ok and good to eat.
Just give a shout if you're having issues, or take a look in the Articles library - there's TONS of good info here.
Also, a clarification - you might want to aim for 2/3 to 3/4 wet in a day with 1/3 to 1/4 dry.
Hang in there!

Furballsmom said:

If possible, I would also do something else, actually a couple things - if you don't already have one, obtain a water fountain to increase water intake, and start them on wet food - pouch food is good from the aspect of more gravy, also you could look into multiple brands for variety of proteins and also different ratios of ingredients as well as avoiding too much exposure to any one bad additive. In addition, a food like Merrick Backcountry rabbit gives them an additional bit of variety.
EDIT: You could maybe decrease the greenies (I have heard bad things about them but I have no idea how accurate) and try a brand called Purebites - I've read good things about those.
EDIT #2 - there are tempting toppers like tuna and non-onion/non-garlic baby food etc that can help them transition to wet food if you have problems there.
also, a clarification - you might want to aim for 2/3 to 3/4 wet in a day with 1/3 to 1/4 dry.
Hang in there!

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Thank you so much! I'm about to dig into these articles on my lunch break. I had not really considered diet changes, but I will definitely give it a shot! They've had wet food a few times (I got some free can coupons from PetSmart for adopting through one of their affiliates) before and LOVED it- at least one previous home must have used it because the second they heard that lid pop, Jack was suddenly hanging sideways off the bed (he was at least 5 feet away when I handed the can to my boyfriend to open) and Jill was meowing like crazy. I will give the treat transition a go as well, and cut back even more on the Greenies. I doubt it's the root of the problem since she did this before I ever got the treats, and they don't have them every day anyway, but I'm happy to try anything!

Are there any brand(s) of food you personally have had success with? Also, I've always been interested in making homemade cat food and/or supplements/treats. Would cooking up fresh food additions like fish and chicken and egg for added protein be a good idea?

I second the vet visit! You can change up the litter boxes all you want, but that won't help until the underlying issue has been solved. If she's experiencing some pain while trying to defecate, she's going to keep moving to different places to try to escape it. When she starts to feel better is when changing up the litter boxes will help (getting rid of the boxes she may still associate with discomfort).

It might not be medical, but you want to at least rule that out. Underlying medical problems tend to show up under stress, which for a cat, can be caused by any change to their routine. So it makes sense that the issues came up when her brother left and when she moved to a new home.

What does her poop look like? If it's on the dry side, or is smaller more marble-like segments, she could be mildly constipated. Constipation is so often the cause of pooping outside the litter box.

I'm just taking guesses here, not being a vet or knowing your cat well, but it could be that she could benefit from some more moisture in her diet. Wet food has lots of health benefits for cats. Even if they seem to be good drinkers, cats fed wet food are still more hydrated than cats fed dry.

One other thing to try is to address the stress levels. Being around an unneutered male cat might be a cause of some stress. I hope there are plans to get him fixed soon for everyone's sake! Feliway diffusers also might help ease her general stress levels that might be heightened because of the number of animals and people in the home. Not that there's anything wrong with a full house. She just might be naturally be a little more anxious about other cats or dogs or people and Feliway would ease those feelings.

They are beautiful kitties!

oh, and one more thought - it's ok to leave wet food out for up to 12 hours. However if you mix in dry food or treats, or add water to the dry food, the bacteria in dry food multiplies very fast so don't leave that sitting for more than an hour, some folks say less.
Dr Lisa Pierson at catinfo.org has a recipe for homemade cat food as well as loads of cat nutrition info.
I mentioned the Greenies from the aspect that they're getting a lot of dry 'material' in their systems and also for long term health - if the bad things I'm reading are true.
You could cook whole egg (both white and yolk) and unseasoned turkey and chicken now and then as treats - my Big Guy's system didn't like the egg for some reason, my my the atmosphere in the house got kinda nuclear there for a bit LOL

Emimee said:

Jack was suddenly hanging sideways off the bed (he was at least 5 feet away when I handed the can to my boyfriend to open) and Jill was meowing like crazy

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Oh, that's a darling image of Jack -
Meezers ROCK

molly92 said:

I second the vet visit! You can change up the litter boxes all you want, but that won't help until the underlying issue has been solved. If she's experiencing some pain while trying to defecate, she's going to keep moving to different places to try to escape it. When she starts to feel better is when changing up the litter boxes will help (getting rid of the boxes she may still associate with discomfort).

It might not be medical, but you want to at least rule that out. Underlying medical problems tend to show up under stress, which for a cat, can be caused by any change to their routine. So it makes sense that the issues came up when her brother left and when she moved to a new home.

What does her poop look like? If it's on the dry side, or is smaller more marble-like segments, she could be mildly constipated. Constipation is so often the cause of pooping outside the litter box.

I'm just taking guesses here, not being a vet or knowing your cat well, but it could be that she could benefit from some more moisture in her diet. Wet food has lots of health benefits for cats. Even if they seem to be good drinkers, cats fed wet food are still more hydrated than cats fed dry.

One other thing to try is to address the stress levels. Being around an unneutered male cat might be a cause of some stress. I hope there are plans to get him fixed soon for everyone's sake! Feliway diffusers also might help ease her general stress levels that might be heightened because of the number of animals and people in the home. Not that there's anything wrong with a full house. She just might be naturally be a little more anxious about other cats or dogs or people and Feliway would ease those feelings.

They are beautiful kitties!

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Thank you so much for the advice; I'm definitely feeling a little better now that I have more things to try! Her poop is usually pretty dry; not bone-dry, but solid. Maybe it is a moisture concern. I will try to get some good quality moist food ASAP, and look into the water fountain!

As for the un-neutered male, I am more than ready for that little mischief maker to be snipped... He mostly plays with the dog who's 5 times his size, but he does like to play with Jill and groom her when he has the chance. It's part of why he isn't allowed in our room, so she always has a private place. I just have to get one of my roommates to take him to Cause for Paws, as I work the days they're open. I'm sending my boyfriend this coming Monday to pick up the regular monthly meds; hoping I can get him to schedule an appointment and take Kuzco as well, as our roommate that owns him doesn't drive. We actually took him to the vet and had him pay us back afterward when we got him. :eyeroll:

I will definitely schedule a vet visit ASAP, especially if adding moisture to their diet doesn't help. I know poor Jack is prone to the occasional UTI (he's had one in the time we've had him, and the rescue said he was treated for one previously as well) but Jill hasn't been to the regular vet yet, only to Cause for Paws for a post-adoption checkup and medication. She was last seen right before I adopted her, and they both were given a clean bill of health. I hope my little mama is okay!

Some foods I use are Merrick Backcountry, American Journey (chewy has a sale going, or did a couple days ago), Tiki Cat although I'm reading this brand will be adding menadione , Pure Vita, Redbarn, Luvsome, and right/wrong, I actually do have some FancyFeast in the cupboard although he's starting to get really picky so I'm assuming they've changed their formula/recipe...again.
This is another good reason to use a variety of brands - I've read some heartbreaking stories of folks stuck in a really awful situation of the cat will only eat one thing and that manufacturer changed the ingredients and now the cat won't eat...
EDIT - oh yeah, I forgot about Daves - I picked up some of this but he didn't go for it.
Also, duckpond --I think ? developed a list of online stores that sell individual cans - one I can think of right off is Only Natural Pet but there are others.

Furballsmom said:

oh, and one more thought - it's ok to leave wet food out for up to 12 hours. However if you mix in dry food or treats, or add water to the dry food, the bacteria in dry food multiplies very fast so don't leave that sitting for more than an hour, some folks say less.
Dr Lisa Pierson at catinfo.org has a recipe for homemade cat food as well as loads of cat nutrition info.
I mentioned the Greenies from the aspect that they're getting a lot of dry 'material' in their systems and also for long term health - if the bad things I'm reading are true.
You could cook whole egg (both white and yolk) and unseasoned turkey and chicken now and then as treats - my Big Guy's system didn't like the egg for some reason, my my the atmosphere in the house got kinda nuclear there for a bit LOL

Oh, that's a darling image of Jack -
Meezers ROCK

Click to expand...

Oh, Jack is a HUGE ham and loves to pose for pictures. His sister doesn't do it so much, and her darker coat doesn't show up as well... Someday I will capture a good photo of her, I know it!

Would it be alright to do a wet food feeding in the morning (then we can escape the gravy smell while we're at work/class, lol) and a dry food feeding in the evening? Or should they both be available at both feedings?

Furballsmom said:

Some foods I use are Merrick Backcountry, American Journey (chewy has a sale going, or did a couple days ago), Tiki Cat although I'm reading this brand will be adding menadione , Pure Vita, Redbarn, Luvsome, and right/wrong, I actually do have some FancyFeast in the cupboard although he's starting to get really picky so I'm assuming they've changed their formula/recipe...again.
This is another good reason to use a variety of brands - I've read some heartbreaking stories of folks stuck in a really awful situation of the cat will only eat one thing and that manufacturer changed the ingredients and now the cat won't eat...

Click to expand...

Thank you! I will check all of these out, and add "learn everything about cat nutrition" to my to-do list, lol...

Do you mix these foods, switch between them every few days, or just order something different every time you buy? (I LOVE Chewy by the way. Their sales are A++!)

EDIT - oh yeah, I forgot about Daves - I picked up some of this but he didn't go for it.
Also, duckpond --I think ? developed a list of online stores that sell individual cans - one I can think of right off is Only Natural Pet but there are others.
I kind of switch between them (different brands of food) every few days.

Emimee said:

Would it be alright to do a wet food feeding in the morning (then we can escape the gravy smell while we're at work/class, lol) and a dry food feeding in the evening? Or should they both be available at both feedings?

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Of the foods I have there's only a couple varieties that really stink up the house, most of them aren't too bad otherwise.
Really, it's whatever works for you - I try to aim for 2/3 wet food to 1/3 dry food in a day, but some people schedule wet feedings am pm with kibble out during the day, or out overnight to avoid yelling felines, ...since you have other critters, if nothing else you could try an auto feeder where there's a chip that when it's activated by another chip on a tag on the cat collar a door flips open when only that animal is near.

Basically any wet food is going to have benefits. Pate styles are usually going to be higher in protein and lower in carbs than gravy-style foods, but sometimes cats like a specific texture best so they make that decision for you. An ideal diet is all wet, no dry, but if that's not feasible I think wet in the morning is fine. I will say I've known a few very dedicated cat owners who changed their opinion on dry food when their cats developed health issues, going from a "sure, dry food is ok in moderation" attitude to eliminating all dry completely. Wet food should also help so much with Jack's UTIs.

It seems that some animals have digestion problems with Greenies. Some are fine though, so it depends. Personally I've cut them out of my cats' diets because I just don't want to experiment with another extra variable.

This isn't related to constipation, but one other bit of nutrition advice is that I would avoid fish flavors. Which limits your options significantly, but there are just too many risks associated with a steady diet of fish. Evidence is growing that fish is linked to hyperthyroidism, among other health issues, and it's so much easier to prevent than to treat.

molly92 said:

Basically any wet food is going to have benefits. Pate styles are usually going to be higher in protein and lower in carbs than gravy-style foods, but sometimes cats like a specific texture best so they make that decision for you. An ideal diet is all wet, no dry, but if that's not feasible I think wet in the morning is fine. I will say I've known a few very dedicated cat owners who changed their opinion on dry food when their cats developed health issues, going from a "sure, dry food is ok in moderation" attitude to eliminating all dry completely. Wet food should also help so much with Jack's UTIs.

It seems that some animals have digestion problems with Greenies. Some are fine though, so it depends. Personally I've cut them out of my cats' diets because I just don't want to experiment with another extra variable.

This isn't related to constipation, but one other bit of nutrition advice is that I would avoid fish flavors. Which limits your options significantly, but there are just too many risks associated with a steady diet of fish. Evidence is growing that fish is linked to hyperthyroidism, among other health issues, and it's so much easier to prevent than to treat.

Click to expand...

I really appreciate all this detailed information; I'm definitely going to be researching like crazy for a while. It's a fun balance of nutrition, cat preference, convenience, and cost efficiency.

Furballsmom said:

Of the foods I have there's only a couple varieties that really stink up the house, most of them aren't too bad otherwise.
Really, it's whatever works for you - I try to aim for 2/3 wet food to 1/3 dry food in a day, but some people schedule wet feedings am pm with kibble out during the day, or out overnight to avoid yelling felines, ...since you have other critters, if nothing else you could try an auto feeder where there's a chip that when it's activated by another chip on a tag on the cat collar a door flips open when only that animal is near.

Click to expand...

Having one of those feeders would be really neat, but Jack and Jill are MASTER collar-escape artists. I'm so glad they're indoor only and microchipped, because it's like pulling teeth trying to keep their collars on. I still have no clue how they do it...

Emimee said:

Jack and Jill are MASTER collar-escape artists

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I should have guessed - they're MEEZERS

one last thought then I'll hush (lol yeah, sure ) but I also use some ziwipeak freezedried venison chips for treats, and in my case since I'm not willing to make his food, I add in a couple nuggets of Primal. I tried radcat but that didn't go over.

Hi! I am having the same issue with my plump calico!!! Her issues started with a rough bout of constipation -- took her to the vet the week it happened and they gave her lactulose, which caused her to vomit each time she was given it. took her back and they gave her an enema (not sedated, shes a really sweet cat and only hissed once) and she was still backed up. we did a sedated enema end of january - poor girl was way backed up and she is still not back in the litter box. we have switched to a fiber response food and everything (she will NOT eat wet food even when it is the only option presented to her).

even though my cat was going #2 daily, going on the carpet caused me to analyze it more and some of it seemed hard/not right, so if possible getting an xray might show if there is a problem. my vet didnt think she was constipated since she was going daily and felt her belly, but the xray clearly showed there was something wrong!

Wanted to chime in because I am right there with you and the list of everything i tried keeps growing and my patience is disappearing. I am with you! I am trying the "confine to a room and only come out when youve used the box" trick next... Your kitties are adorable and they are so lucky to have you willing to take whatever steps necessary

Let me post that list of toppers, be right back

Here is a list of tempting toppers you can use, either on top of wet food or mixed in, and also in addition such as with the liquids;

• Chicken or beef flavored baby food - make sure it doesn't contain any garlic or onions

• Tuna and/or the juice

• Salmon

• Sardines (make sure there are no bones)

• boiled cut up chicken or turkey with no seasonings

• kitten food - it's usually smelly. See if it's eaten on its own, then mix it in or put on top

• Try mixing in Kitten Milk Replacer - there are recipes on the internet

• Fish, tuna or BBQ flavored canned wet food (I personally have never seen BBQ flavors, but...)

• Lickable cat treats or pouch treat gravy poured over the food

• Pouch cat foods - these typically have more gravy

also Nutri Cal for when it is an urgent situation of the cat not eating

• goat milk, or low/no lactose cow milk
• whole cooked eggs (both yolk and white)
• broth with no salt and no garlic or onion or seasonings of any kind

Furballsmom said:

EDIT - oh yeah, I forgot about Daves - I picked up some of this but he didn't go for it.
Also, duckpond --I think ? developed a list of online stores that sell individual cans - one I can think of right off is Only Natural Pet but there are others.
I kind of switch between them (different brands of food) every few days.

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I do use only natural pet store online. I also like The Big Bad woof, these two are the best i have found so far