Possible Lymphoma

babiesmom5 · May 8, 2017

chachahowski said:
Sorry I haven't posted in awhile. Thanks for checking in on Lily. She was great while she was on the pred. Now she's off it though and her symptoms already started coming back. She had been off it for about 3 weeks and she has started having some episodes of vomitting and she has started licking her stomach again (so much she gets a bald spot). It's clear to me she is starting to regress. She is still eating, drinking and going to the bathroom normally (no diarrhea). I did get a scale and her weight has been consistent.

What can be done after a cat has taken prednisolone? I know they are not supposed to take a steroid long-term because that can cause health issues in and of itself. I emailed my vet to ask if there were other treatment options going forward but haven't heard back yet. Thanks for your help everyone.

Normally, cats with IBD require staying on some sort of steroid to provide long term control of the inflammation in the GI tract. If they go off it, the inflammation almost immediately returns as Lily is now experiencing.

I have one cat with IBD on Budesonide which is an alternative steroid. It has a lower risk of side effects due to the high level of "first pass" metabolism. It is taken orally once a day, moved along the GI tract calming inflammation, then is removed almost immediately by the liver. You may want to ask your Vet about this.

stephenq · May 8, 2017

Hi
Why is she off the pred? Lymphoma is fatal, and pred can delay death. There is no benefit to going off pred when the alternative is loss of life.

Leukeran is the next treatment for small cell lymphoma, its a mild chemo (pill) that can be given at home.

Cerenia is a wonder drug to control nausea and vomiting. Licking her lips indicates she is nauseous.

chachahowski · May 8, 2017

babiesmom5 said:
Normally, cats with IBD require staying on some sort of steroid to provide long term control of the inflammation in the GI tract. If they go off it, the inflammation almost immediately returns as Lily is now experiencing.

I have one cat with IBD on Budesonide which is an alternative steroid. It has a lower risk of side effects due to the high level of "first pass" metabolism. It is taken orally once a day, moved along the GI tract calming inflammation, then is removed almost immediately by the liver. You may want to ask your Vet about this.

Thank you! I will definitely ask my vet about that as an option!

chachahowski · May 8, 2017

stephenq said:
Hi
Why is she off the pred? Lymphoma is fatal, and pred can delay death. There is no benefit to going off pred when the alternative is loss of life.

Leukeran is the next treatment for small cell lymphoma, its a mild chemo (pill) that can be given at home.

Cerenia is a wonder drug to control nausea and vomiting. Licking her lips indicates she is nauseous.

They never confirmed lymphoma because I would not biopsy. They are approaching it as if it is IBD.

nevroth · May 8, 2017

I'm also a bit surprised she's off the pred already. My vet has Meph on pred for several months to make sure it's working (really I think just to tell if she's losing weight = lymphoma) and next month (#4 I think) we can try finding the lowest effective dose (aka try to wean her off).

My vet also mentioned another steroid, though I forget the name. She said it wasn't as strong as pred, but much better to take long term if Meph does well on it. It could be budesonide but I didn't record the meeting (d'oh!) and thought, "well, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it."

Although my vet told me that 90% of IBD cats need to be on some sort of medication for life, there are a few that can have their IBD managed through diet. Are you still feeding Lily the same food since March? Maybe look into raw? There's an excellent facebook group called "Raw Feeding for IBD Cats" and the people there are really supportive. Many there have managed their kitties IBD without pred.

chachahowski · May 8, 2017

I just heard back from my vet. We are going to put her back on Pred since it was effective at managing her symptoms. Yes we are still using the same food. I am really thinking about going Raw. I'm almost done with the school year and then I will spend some time really researching it and work her up to it this summer while I'm off of work. Thanks for all your messages!

tristessa · May 8, 2017

chachahowski said:
Hello fellow cat lovers,

I've been reading through some forum posts trying to get some peace of mind about my Lily. She has been going through cycles of vomiting, diarrhea and not eating for months now. She has also been losing weight (about a pound over a few months). We have been back and forth to the vet and she has had multiple blood tests. The blood tests came back clean each time. However, her symptoms persisted. I'm very convinced that she is suffering from IBD or lymphoma. She is 12 years old (almost 13), so I have a sinking feeling we are dealing with Lymphoma. The vet just gave me an estimate for a final blood panel, ultrasound, and biopsy. After doing research, I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of a biopsy. I'm also not sure I am financially capable to doing a long-term treatment plan if she does have cancer. The hardest thing has been the periods she only picks at her food...and the fact that despite the symptoms she acts like her normal self (she doesn't sleep more than usual, still runs about and plays -- though she has never been overly playful).

I'm just looking for anyone to share their experiences with this unpleasantness. I also recently moved to a new State this year so the vet I'm working with is not that familiar to me. At this point, My instinct is telling to get the last blood panel and talk to my vet about options going forward if it is IBD. Medications, diet changes anything that I could do to help. Since I do not want to biopsy I know we cannot really confirm cancer. I have been doing a lot of Internet research about IBD, Lymphoma, raw food diets, etc but I am interested in some more personal anecdotes. Thanks!

I am going through something similar with my cat. He is just turning 13 and has had a rough year of first diabetes, and now in remission, possibly has IBD. Around December he started with hairballs every week and diarrhea. The vet put him on metronidazole and his symptoms cleared up. We had him on a closely monitored weight lose plan so when I noticed a sudden drop in weight and refusal to eat, I brought him in. His blood panel was a mess and the vet was almost positive it was Triad Disease. I decided to let him treat the symptoms to see how he would fair. For one week he was on the metro, the pred, denamarin, and clavamox an antibiotic. I took him in again to the vet because he began flat out refusing to eat and started hiding from me because I had to pill him 7 times a day. The vet examined him and declared he was in heart failure! He had a preexisting heart murmur from when he was born. I had it ultrasounded and it was determined to be functional and was told it would never get worse. Turns out, the prednisone, although it works miracles as anti-inflammatory, can cause heart failure in cats with murmurs. After finding this, I asked my vet since he knew of the cats condition and he told me it was very rare and my cat was only the second he was ever seen in his 35 years of vet experience that went into heart failure from pred. I spent a week nursing my cat back to life with no pills. Somehow he rebounded and surprised everyone at the vet office. Using the process of elimination we determined it to be IBD. The vet discouraged a biopsy only because of his heart condition. He said even though it would tell me exactly what they were dealing with, it wouldnt change how they treated and for some people is more piece of mind. I chose not to have the biopsy. Instead I give the metronidazole and heart medicine. I also use cyproheptadine as an appetite stimulant on days he decides not to eat and I make him as comfortable as possible. I've also tried using slippery elm since he can't take pred and it's a natural anti-inflammatory which coats the gut. So far, if seems to be helping him day to day. Good luck with your cat and always go with what you feel is right. If you are uncomfortable with the biopsy, then don't do it. It is invasive so you have to decide if it's for you and your cat. I'm new to this IBD stuff since my cat only started his issues in the last 6 months but wishing you the best.

gatinos · May 9, 2017

babiesmom5 said:
Normally, cats with IBD require staying on some sort of steroid to provide long term control of the inflammation in the GI tract. If they go off it, the inflammation almost immediately returns as Lily is now experiencing.

I agree with B babiesmom5 . I was also very reluctant to keep my cat Nene on his steroid dose but I have learned to be patient and observe him carefully, supplementing his diet and learning what he needs best. Also, I don't know how fast you weaned yours off the steroid but that is a very delicate process that needs to be taken very easy and slowly and definitely using supplements to help you with the weaning process.

I have one cat with IBD on Budesonide which is an alternative steroid. It has a lower risk of side effects due to the high level of "first pass" metabolism. It is taken orally once a day, moved along the GI tract calming inflammation, then is removed almost immediately by the liver. You may want to ask your Vet about this.

I have read that alternative steroid is really effective and very popular amongst cat parents for IBS/IBD. Have you visited the website IBDKitties – Helping Save Lives…One Paw at a Time They have some great info there.

stephenq said:
Hi
Why is she off the pred? Lymphoma is fatal, and pred can delay death. There is no benefit to going off pred when the alternative is loss of life.

stephenq knows what he's talking about.

Leukeran is the next treatment for small cell lymphoma, its a mild chemo (pill) that can be given at home.

Cerenia is a wonder drug to control nausea and vomiting. Licking her lips indicates she is nauseous.

Nene benefited very much from taking Cerenia during his very early stages. It improved his appetite and digestion a lot until he was stable on the steroids. We only used one box and weaned him off slowly and he's not taking it anymore.

nevroth said:
I'm also a bit surprised she's off the pred already. My vet has Meph on pred for several months to make sure it's working (really I think just to tell if she's losing weight = lymphoma) and next month (#4 I think) we can try finding the lowest effective dose (aka try to wean her off).

I agree with nevroth . It all seems quite fast. What dose was she on and how did you wean her off?

Although my vet told me that 90% of IBD cats need to be on some sort of medication for life, there are a few that can have their IBD managed through diet. Are you still feeding Lily the same food since March? Maybe look into raw? There's an excellent facebook group called "Raw Feeding for IBD Cats" and the people there are really supportive. Many there have managed their kitties IBD without pred.

Re nutrition: I remember you mentioned your kitty didn't like anything other than dried food. I don't know if you recall that I recommended you a product that looks and feels a lot like kibble but is actually freeze dried. It's worked very, very well for Nene. I don't think Nene would have managed to stay on kibble.

chachahowski said:
I just heard back from my vet. We are going to put her back on Pred since it was effective at managing her symptoms. Yes we are still using the same food. I am really thinking about going Raw. I'm almost done with the school year and then I will spend some time really researching it and work her up to it this summer while I'm off of work. Thanks for all your messages!

chachahowski I was also a little scared of raw, but it really isn't that much of a transition when you go to freeze dried. Of course it needs to be done slowly, but I honestly love how fewer ingredients he is eating and it makes sense to me to feed him a simple food when he has an upset stomach. Different products work different in every cat, of course, so that's also something to take into consideration. I was advised not to go all the way raw because of the risks of compromising his already debilitated inmune system. And this was recommended both by traditional and holistic veterinarians. Also, Lea, one of the members of this fantastic company recommended me to feed him enzymes whenever I feed raw. I cannot speak highly enough of this company and its products. You can email them with all the info you have on your kitty and they will recommend you a course of treatment. It's all natural and they are very helpful.

tristessa said:
I am going through something similar with my cat. He is just turning 13 and has had a rough year of first diabetes, and now in remission, possibly has IBD. Around December he started with hairballs every week and diarrhea. The vet put him on metronidazole and his symptoms cleared up. We had him on a closely monitored weight lose plan so when I noticed a sudden drop in weight and refusal to eat, I brought him in. His blood panel was a mess and the vet was almost positive it was Triad Disease. I decided to let him treat the symptoms to see how he would fair. For one week he was on the metro, the pred, denamarin, and clavamox an antibiotic. I took him in again to the vet because he began flat out refusing to eat and started hiding from me because I had to pill him 7 times a day.

tristessa , I'm so sorry you guys went through such an ordeal. I think we all can relate very much to your experience.

Re the pills, have you tried these pill pockets? Even though they're marketed for dogs, they are also ok for cats and they are grain free and don't have chicken, which is highly allergenic.

The vet examined him and declared he was in heart failure!

Yes, I have read that steroids can raise blood pressure. I'm so sorry it affected your kitty so much.

He had a preexisting heart murmur from when he was born. I had it ultrasounded and it was determined to be functional and was told it would never get worse. Turns out, the prednisone, although it works miracles as anti-inflammatory, can cause heart failure in cats with murmurs. After finding this, I asked my vet since he knew of the cats condition and he told me it was very rare and my cat was only the second he was ever seen in his 35 years of vet experience that went into heart failure from pred. I spent a week nursing my cat back to life with no pills. Somehow he rebounded and surprised everyone at the vet office. Using the process of elimination we determined it to be IBD. The vet discouraged a biopsy only because of his heart condition. He said even though it would tell me exactly what they were dealing with, it wouldnt change how they treated and for some people is more piece of mind. I chose not to have the biopsy. Instead I give the metronidazole and heart medicine. I also use cyproheptadine as an appetite stimulant on days he decides not to eat and I make him as comfortable as possible.

I really encourage you to have a chat with the team at Dog & Cat Vitamin & Mineral Supplements Online | Vitality Science. They have a product that has slippery elm in it but also a lot of other good stuff! I have no affiliation with the business, I just think they are amazing and offer a natural alternative to treat kitties.

I've also tried using slippery elm since he can't take pred and it's a natural anti-inflammatory which coats the gut. So far, if seems to be helping him day to day. Good luck with your cat and always go with what you feel is right. If you are uncomfortable with the biopsy, then don't do it. It is invasive so you have to decide if it's for you and your cat. I'm new to this IBD stuff since my cat only started his issues in the last 6 months but wishing you the best.

All the best, I hope this info helps.

Bliss · Aug 5, 2017

Hi everyone,

I'm butting in here with a question about my newly diagnosed IBD/lymphoma kitty, I hope that's ok?

She is 5 years old and was diagnosed by an internist who flat out told me I was doing my cat a disservice by not getting the biopsy done, which I had decided against. Not a fun thing to hear, needless to say she is no longer an internist I plan to consult with again.

That being said my kitty presented with lack of appetite and lethargy the end of June, it continued until we did more testing and eventually got the ultra sound done late July which showed thickening of intestines. She does have food allergies and we were working her through diet trials but are now going to jump right to home cooked novel protein - she came from a hoarder situation initially so if there is not food out she panics.

We tried budesonide last week and while it's supposed to have beery few systematic side effects she was manic and didn't stop for 8 hours straight, it was a tad scary (and much like when it takes her three days to come down from anesthesia) she has a delicate system and a fragile immune system from her early life. She has herpes virus as well as asthma and a low grade heart murmur. She used to take pred regularly but has not had an asthma flare up since her weight got under control two years ago. I'm now terrified of trying the pred and sending her into congestive heart failure. If she took it previously and didn't have a problem is that a good sign she won't again? Or could the fact that it's two years later make a difference?

My question is, is there any way change in food alone could reduce the GI inflammation? Could I try the food change and see if she responds and if not then try the pred? (Knocking on wood, she's has only lost an ounce in these six weeks since we started trying to figure out why she was eating less and feeling nauseous.) Or am I being irresponsible not getting the inflammation down ASAP as it could very well be lymphoma?

Additionally has anyone ever had slippery elm cause diarrhea? It seems to alleviate her nausea but she get loose stools from it. I've tried low doses and dosing every other day.

Lastly, her B12 came back <1000 from Texas A&M but what is the greater than in that equation? She had two B12 shots as we waited for the panel to come back and they seemed to perk her up a lot but as far as the lab work goes it doesn't really indicate that she needs them. I tried to persuade my vet to let me do them regardless but she wasn't going for it.

Thanks so much for any help or advice. I appreciate it so much.

stephenq · Aug 7, 2017

Hi
You may want to start your own thread, you will get more replies that way. It sounds like you may be past the point of doing novel food, once there is weight loss things have become serious. Steroids like prednisolone are fairly well tolerated in cats, and if you don't get the illness into remission, the end result can take the life of your cat. Once you're on steroids, biopsies are no longer reliable. And biopsies are not required, it is ok just to treat the cat. If she responds to the steroids then that is diagnostic.

babiesmom5 · Aug 7, 2017

I agree 100% with what

stephenq has told you. He is giving you the straight scoop. Please take heed. The window for relying on dietary adjustment has closed. In my humble opinion, and I am not a Vet, only speaking from painful experience, you are headed into, if not already into small cell lymphoma territory. Slippery Elm is not your answer for nausea at this point. Your cat has uncontrolled GI inflammation which is causing nausea. A steroid is likely needed.
What kind is best determined by your Vet. I have one cat on Budesonide now with no side effects. While each cat is different, perhaps the "manic" symptoms could have been caused by the uncontrolled GI inflammation.

As for Vitamin B-12, the reference interval is 290-1499 ng/L. Your cat was <1000, but you did not give a specific figure. Perhaps your Vet did not want to prescribe B-12 due to your cat being within the reference interval. i can tell you that Vitamin B-12 is most often prescribed when the IBD affects the cat's ileum (distal small intestine just before the colon) as that is where Vitamin B-12 is absorbed. Perhaps your cat's IBD inflammation is in the upper parts of the GI tract like stomach, duodenum, as I suspect based on the nausea/vomiting your cat experiences.

I wrote at length about IBD on a thread yesterday entitled "Any advice for IBS", which I will not repeat here, but you may find some helpful information.

Those of us who have been down this horrible road think you should seek the advice of a good Vet, preferably one specializing in Internal Medicine, who can prescribe proper treatment plan...and the sooner the better!

gatinos · Aug 23, 2017

Bliss said:
Hi everyone,

I'm butting in here with a question about my newly diagnosed IBD/lymphoma kitty, I hope that's ok?

I'm sure it's ok! We've all gone through a lot of distress for our kitties and started enquiring here and there. Good on you for doing some research!

She is 5 years old and was diagnosed by an internist who flat out told me I was doing my cat a disservice by not getting the biopsy done, which I had decided against. Not a fun thing to hear, needless to say she is no longer an internist I plan to consult with again.

When my kitty started presenting symptoms, out vet advised us against the biopsy because it was so invasive. It's hard to know what is best, but know that nobody (vets included) holds all truth and sometimes going with your gut is the best way to go.

That being said my kitty presented with lack of appetite and lethargy the end of June, it continued until we did more testing and eventually got the ultra sound done late July which showed thickening of intestines. She does have food allergies and we were working her through diet trials but are now going to jump right to home cooked novel protein - she came from a hoarder situation initially so if there is not food out she panics.

One of my kitties has always struggled with feeling hungry. I found him in a shelter. He is doing very well thanks to using timed feeders when I'm not home and sticking to a very regimented schedule of timed feedings.

We tried budesonide last week and while it's supposed to have beery few systematic side effects she was manic and didn't stop for 8 hours straight, it was a tad scary (and much like when it takes her three days to come down from anesthesia) she has a delicate system and a fragile immune system from her early life. She has herpes virus as well as asthma and a low grade heart murmur. She used to take pred regularly but has not had an asthma flare up since her weight got under control two years ago. I'm now terrified of trying the pred and sending her into congestive heart failure. If she took it previously and didn't have a problem is that a good sign she won't again? Or could the fact that it's two years later make a difference?

My kitty also struggled with his meds. He's been frantic for 6 months and only started calming down now, since we're in a very low dose of steroids. I'm sorry I can't help you with the other questions. I have no experience in that regard.

My question is, is there any way change in food alone could reduce the GI inflammation? Could I try the food change and see if she responds and if not then try the pred? (Knocking on wood, she's has only lost an ounce in these six weeks since we started trying to figure out why she was eating less and feeling nauseous.) Or am I being irresponsible not getting the inflammation down ASAP as it could very well be lymphoma?

From my experience, the food was a major factor in my kitty's improvement. Nobody gave a food change ANY credit, vets included. But to our joy, it did. We feed him a novel protein (rabbit) from the brand Primal, freeze dried. Apart from the food, there is many other things you can do, aside from meds, to improve your kitty's overall health. I did so many things, and in all honestly, I should have done them sooner. We improved his environment, buying a bird feeder and a new cat perch, we added a litter box, and made sure they were always clean; we added daily playtime, daily brushing, and even music for cats!

Additionally has anyone ever had slippery elm cause diarrhea? It seems to alleviate her nausea but she get loose stools from it. I've tried low doses and dosing every other day.

One of my kitties vomits when she takes slippery elm. I really would encourage you to get in touch with Vitality Science. Tell them about your case and they will recommend you the products your kitty needs. They helped mine very much.

Lastly, her B12 came back <1000 from Texas A&M but what is the greater than in that equation? She had two B12 shots as we waited for the panel to come back and they seemed to perk her up a lot but as far as the lab work goes it doesn't really indicate that she needs them. I tried to persuade my vet to let me do them regardless but she wasn't going for it.

B12 gives my kitty soft stools. It is highly recommended as far as I've read online, but I can't tell you wether it would be good in your case.

Thanks so much for any help or advice. I appreciate it so much.

Don't loose hope and keep the faith! That's what got us through. Sending positive vibes your way!

Possible Lymphoma

babiesmom5

TCS Member

stephenq

TCS Member

chachahowski

TCS Member

Thread starter

chachahowski

TCS Member

Thread starter

nevroth

TCS Member

chachahowski

TCS Member

Thread starter

tristessa

TCS Member

gatinos

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Bliss

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stephenq

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babiesmom5

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gatinos

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