Re: Sassy - 19yr old (close to 20) - Not eating / Very Lethargic + losing balance

[miguel99nyc]

So still awaiting call back from vet.

Just came home from work early and noticed my cat wasn't in her bed but instead on this bright spot from sun hitting wood floor and she was laying in that spot. She Always loved laying in the sunlight and so happens I left my curtains open earlier. So, she's able to detect light in some way to have found it? I took picture of her eyes moments ago - and seem pretty narrow due the sunlight and such. Does that indicate anything?

 

[fionasmom]

Transdermal meds may allow for more bioavailability and continued response. While I don't know the exact answer to your question, any medication which is marketed transdermally is probably one that has small enough molecules to be effectively adminstered this way. There is no danger of the med sitting in the digestive tract as with orals. My assumption based on what I have read is that one administration, properly and according to whatever directions you were given, should be equivalent to the first dose or any other dose of the oral med.So putting the hypertension medication in her mouth may not be any more effective.

Blood pressure medication is not intended to make the BP take a nose dive. It can take a little bit of time to kick in and it can depend on the medication. Probably asking your vet is the best thing.

It is nice that she found her favorite spot; she may be partially sighted or able to sense light either with her eyes or as a source of warmth.

 

[miguel99nyc]

Transdermal meds may allow for more bioavailability and continued response. While I don't know the exact answer to your question, any medication which is marketed transdermally is probably one that has small enough molecules to be effectively adminstered this way. There is no danger of the med sitting in the digestive tract as with orals. My assumption based on what I have read is that one administration, properly and according to whatever directions you were given, should be equivalent to the first dose or any other dose of the oral med.So putting the hypertension medication in her mouth may not be any more effective.

Blood pressure medication is not intended to make the BP take a nose dive. It can take a little bit of time to kick in and it can depend on the medication. Probably asking your vet is the best thing.

It is nice that she found her favorite spot; she may be partially sighted or able to sense light either with her eyes or as a source of warmth.

Would I be allowed to start a new thread on this topic?

 

[fionasmom]

If you have a new topic which is related to what you have experienced during this time with Sassy, such as a discussion about transdermal medication, that is okay. If you want to continue discussing Sassy's treatment and condition as you go forward, it is probably better left here as those who are reading and those who have responded will be better able to follow it. Two threads on the same topic usually result in partial answers and some confusion as not everyone might read all of the previous thread.

 

[miguel99nyc]

Hello Everyone,

So here's an update. Got results back from Sassy's blood - attaching here. Nothing seems to out of sort except for Urea Nitrogen and Na/K Ratio? Vet alluded to her kidney disease causing the high blood pressure. I've started applying the Transdermal Gel of amlodipine besylate on her ear, alternating them as instructed. So far on Day 3 of it.

So far of course, haven't seen any positive outcome of it. The one thing that's stressing me out a lot, and now even family today considered of possibly putting her down, is how she gets sort of lost. Well not lost. If I'm not in my room and she sense im Out in living room or something, she will get up from her bed and find a way to navigate to this hallway entrance to apartment and sit there as she used to before losing vision. See thing is, at least back then she'd have vision. It was very simple to have her follow me back to my room in order to feed her. Today however was so stressful. She just kept circling around and sit in different spots of the hallway, crying and such, as if she's expecting me to return from work or something. But the problem is that she can't see. I don't think she can hear for that matter as well as that I noticed such a long time ago, years ago. If i walk near her or up to her, she would til her head up at times in attempts to look at me but once I move she doesn't move head. So today was EXTREMELY Challenging to get her back to my room and her bed at least. She wouldn't move. I had to nearly force/push her to get into my room...as otherwise she'd just be in that hall area crying or falling asleep sitting for nothing. No way of getting her attention since she can't really see. And it has gotten to the point where its become rather stressful to see her like this. She still enjoys eating and eats generally in her usual spot, and sleeps like her old self. Doesn't act sick yet, so I don't think she's suffering. However, her crying out in hallway saddens me as I'm not sure what else to do to calm her down or bring her back to her bed at that time. I try petting her and show her affection but she'd just remain still there. Now that she finally walked to her bed few hours ago, she been getting up and navigating to her eating spot and tranquilly just going back to bed instead remaining outside in living room hall.

I've been reading some sites and such about blindness and retinal detachment, high blood pressure, etc. I know its a very slim chance of any damage she has in retinas to be reversed or gain some sight back...but what's the timeline on reversing dmage or at least lower blood pressure to normal range? Weeks?Months? Am I supposed to see any differences with her overall after X amount of time on the transdermal gel? I don't certainly expect a miracle overnight here, but at the very least, wanted her to be her old self , navigate herself best she can but without the crying and wandering aimlessly at times as shes doing now. Because that throws off her eating schedule, sleep, everything. And just gets me sooo depressed. I see where high blood pressure or retinas detach often show up as sudden blindness and/or pupils being fully dilated even in light. None of that seem to be the case for Sassy as her pupils do shrink in light like before. So if her pupils aren't fully dilated constantly, does that mean she isnt fully blind? I've seen pics examples of retinas detached eyes in cats, and my cat's pupils/eyes don't seem like that - as if they got a tear or blood or anything. Maybe a little hazy but thats all. Something makes me believe her retinas arent fully detached...and maybe some hopes that controlling her BP will allow it to heal? but even in the event she doesn't, I would think she could still act somewhat normal or stick to her routine of primarily asking for food, drinking water, using literbox, and then goign to sleep peacefully. Like it his worth the fight for her? given her age of 20 yrs old?

The other thing i asked vet if I could take her BP on my own at home, because if I take her to vet, I know that will raise it much higher than needed to be. Like this past visit hers was over 200, i know its very high. Vet then said I could search amazon and purchase one, but they most got bad reviews or cuffs being too big for a cat. So was wondering, is it adviseable to even try and buy such machine and take her BP at home? Im sure that would be her true numbers. If so, anyone recommend a good machine? Just don't know if I can risk taking her again to Vet and have her feel worse.

lastly, anything in blood that might hint at the cause of high blood pressure or not?

Any possible suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Furballsmom]

She may not be suffering physically although high blood pressure can be bad, but she's not doing well emotionally.

I looked into taking my cats blood pressure at home, and decided it is too unreliable.

In any case, I think you are asking the wrong questions, and your family is correct..

 

[louisstools]

You might want to have a conversation with your vet about quality of life for Sassy to ensure that you are making the best decision for her.

I had a similar conversation just about a year ago with our vet. My boy lasted 3 months when they said "days to weeks" before he started to slowdown. Had we not had it I might have waited too long or made the decision sooner than I needed.

 

[miguel99nyc]

You might want to have a conversation with your vet about quality of life for Sassy to ensure that you are making the best decision for her.

I had a similar conversation just about a year ago with our vet. My boy lasted 3 months when they said "days to weeks" before he started to slowdown. Had we not had it I might have waited too long or made the decision sooner than I needed.

What did you boy have btw? Was it similar to mines - blindness/HBP?

 

[louisstools]

What did you boy have btw? Was it similar to mines - blindness/HBP?

Oral squamous cell cancer. Bore a hole in the roof of his mouth to nasal passage. Couldn't eat or drink without assistance. Grooming was problematic too.

 

[miguel99nyc]

Oral squamous cell cancer. Bore a hole in the roof of his mouth to nasal passage. Couldn't eat or drink without assistance. Grooming was problematic too.

Aw. Man thats really tough. My other cat that passed away 2 years ago had colon adenocarinoma, but died in surgery in attempts to remove the mass sadly .

Im not willing to put my cat down now just because shes blind...but her being vocal seems to only when she steps out to living room. Once shes in my room she sleeps like an angel, eats fine and goes to sleep like she has most of tonight so far. It's not like shes going to die soon...so I just dont feel its time to give up just yet.

 

[daftcat75]

I wouldn’t dare diagnose your cat, and it sounds as if others are wiser here, but, am experiencing a similar thing w/ some cans being watery, some not, and thought: “Either I am going crazy, or, maybe it’s just how it comes off the assembly line.” This is Farmina though. Different brand, same story? I WILL say if I order it directly from its own site, it takes forever, but is thicker. If I order it from Chewy, it’s slightly less predictable, but much faster. Fortunately my cat eats it all and none is old, but it gets you to thinking about supply & the increasing stress placed on workers….b/c of Covid more folks have pets.That’s a good thing, but also Catch .22 as far as possible food quality.

It seems I haven’t caught up on this thread in awhile so here’s the first one message I see tonight. When I order Betty’s food from Vetsource (VCA’s home delivery), it’s soggy and Betty doesn’t like it. But when I go down to a VCA and pick up food in person, that’s her jam. My thought is that it sits in a hot delivery truck too long when it’s residential vs business delivery. This is why whenever I had temperature sensitive medication sent to me, I’d send it to the vet’s office instead.

 

[louisstools]

Aw. Man thats really tough. My other cat that passed away 2 years ago had colon adenocarinoma, but died in surgery in attempts to remove the mass sadly .

Im not willing to put my cat down now just because shes blind...but her being vocal seems to only when she steps out to living room. Once shes in my room she sleeps like an angel, eats fine and goes to sleep like she has most of tonight so far. It's not like shes going to die soon...so I just dont feel its time to give up just yet.

Yeah his was terminal, with a second opinion. I just wanted to give him as much time as possible knowing he trusted me to take care of him. I know you want that for sassy.

 

[daftcat75]

I’m sorry. I really haven’t caught up in awhile. How sudden was the blindness? I would think that if you give her enough time, she will adapt to it. And if it’s not complete blindness yet, that could be even more disorientating as she’s still trying to use a sense that is failing her. Do you have a specialist you can consult? All other things being managed, I wouldn’t put her down for being distressed and confused about an environment she no longer knows. I know there are a number of happy blind cats on Instagram. I follow a few. I would think you should be able to find tips on how to make a newly blind cat more comfortable and confident. Can you put fabric or carpet or trees or soft furniture or anything she can rub her scent onto in that hall as sort of scent breadcrumbs? If her sight and hearing aren’t much good, you have to give her something she can work with. Maybe this is an excuse to leave your laundry on the floor. How else will she find her way back to your room?

 

[miguel99nyc]

Yeah his was terminal, with a second opinion. I just wanted to give him as much time as possible knowing he trusted me to take care of him. I know you want that for sassy.

Yes same here, trying to give Sassy as much time as I can. I don't think shes suffering...other than being blind, disoriented and such. But i can only imagine whats going through her mind.

 

[miguel99nyc]

I’m sorry. I really haven’t caught up in awhile. How sudden was the blindness? I would think that if you give her enough time, she will adapt to it. And if it’s not complete blindness yet, that could be even more disorientating as she’s still trying to use a sense that is failing her. Do you have a specialist you can consult? All other things being managed, I wouldn’t put her down for being distressed and confused about an environment she no longer knows. I know there are a number of happy blind cats on Instagram. I follow a few. I would think you should be able to find tips on how to make a newly blind cat more comfortable and confident. Can you put fabric or carpet or trees or soft furniture or anything she can rub her scent onto in that hall as sort of scent breadcrumbs? If her sight and hearing aren’t much good, you have to give her something she can work with. Maybe this is an excuse to leave your laundry on the floor. How else will she find her way back to your room?

Hi there!

Well, I would say it was gradual her blindness. Definitely wasn't like overnight or instantaneous Id say, no. Maybe started a week or two ago. She just seemed out of focus. The only time she got literally worse was when I took her to vet, her pressure shot up to over 220 or so and then upon getting home, she was just bumping into everything. Of course, her whiskers prevented her from hitting things but she'd be going side to side. She did somewhat improve later in day after rest but remained like that since this past Thursday visit to vet, disoriented and walking up to things.

I definitely want to give her time, at least to see if lowering her pressure will do her any good if any. Her vision? I doubt it will come back. Like, I also don't think shes FULLY blind because if I walk up to her, she'd lift her head up slightly in attempts to see me, but if I move her head remains in same position and doesn't track me. However, recently getting back from work in afternoons, she still be waiting for me by entrance door. Doesn't greet me like herself...nor make eye contact of course because of vision problem, and somehow, she'd follow me alll the way to my room where she eats. hardly without bumping into anything too. I'd think thats just muscle memory at taht point.

She would go all way to water bowl in bathroom, struggle to find it at first but has general idea still. Then she'd come back to my bedroom or at least attempt it, and she sometimes does it find and steady. I think the only scent she picks up on is her bed. So if i drag her litttle bed towards her where she is, she'd sniff it and then attempt to lay down. But she does manage to make it to my room at times on her own. how? I think just memory at that point. I just know she can live on with being blind...its tough. Just dont know how long she could return to her old self aside from being blind.

 

[catsknowme]

Blindness probably takes a little more adjustment time when it's late onset but she should adjust. I would keep a comb in my pocket and give her extra "licks" which should be reassuring to her.

 

[daftcat75]

A week or two? That’s not enough time for her to adjust. I don’t know how long it should take. Be patient and supportive. Certainly look into providing scent soakers around her environment so she can navigate that way. And is also reassured that it is her environment even if it all looks different now.

 

[catsknowme]

Have you tried putting down a line of masking tape along the pathway from her special hallway spot to her bed? It might help her navigate with her paw pads, just like the rumble strip on the side of the highway helps to navigate in a white-out blizzard. Please let us know what you try and what works for you. Blind Cat Sanctuary has a Facebook page - maybe you can pick up a few suggestions from them, as well.

 

[fionasmom]

The blood test numbers are very good for a 20 year old cat. Yes, there are some out of range values as one would expect, but still not indicative, to me, of a cat who needs to be put to sleep. I completely agree with the comments about helping her to adjust. This is very new in the scheme of things and I would continue to try to help her adjust to these changes. Somewhere along the line I know that I mentioned my blind dog who was completely fine once she adjusted; moving to a new home was difficult, but you have not mentioned that you are planning anything like that in the near future.

There are any number of websites dedicated to blind cats and all have suggestions and videos which might help.

I am also going to agree with the hot delivery truck scenario. That has crossed my mind as well in terms of quality of cat food.

 

[miguel99nyc]

Hm, no haven't tried masking tape. I mean, she seems to get back to my room and her bed just fine? I am definitely doing my best to be patient with her. I may not be the best at it, but I am definitely learning to do so for my cat because I do want her around still as she isn't totally sick and all yet and as mentioned, doesn't seem like its good time yet to put her down.

Like this past overnight, she still asked for her dry food as normal. Scratches base of my bed to wake me up lol over night. She developed that months ago to wake me up overnight. She would eat fine, then walk back to her bed like normal. Again Im sure at that point is all memory and scent on her bed from herself? She even goes out into bathroom with her waterbowl is to drink while lights are off and I don't hear her necessarily bump into things. Then manages to come back to my room and back into her bed.

This morning, she'd drink water but venture out to hallway again to cry...for a bit. She used to do that, just waltz her way out there even with vision. But she would just sit there and look around and such. This was for as long I can remember her doing in past years. But see back then, if i wanted her to eat or go back to my room, Id literally wave my hand at her and say "come". She won't hear me, but she knew my hand gesture of coming towards me. Then she'd follow me. Did so up until few weeks ago. Now of course I got no way of doing that...so Id just leave her be, and if its time for her to sleep, i just nudge her. Then eventually like this morning she walks back to my room just fine. She's 20, so she doesn't jump or play with toys and such. Just gets by eat/drinks/litter and occasionaly comes by rooms to say hi, sit there, then walks back to her bed and sleeps. Just, back then would be automatic. Right now its sort of like that but, if not, I got to nudge her or guide her in the direction. My hope is that she regains some vision after this BP med...or at very least it brings her BP down for her to only be experiencing/dealing with blindness only? Ive seen so much videos of blind cats get along just fine. Even jumping and such. I just feel this blindness mentally is affecting her but Im sure its just for now or for few more weeks or so. Hence Why I want to keep her around and help her with this bP medicine.Im sure if she was feeling really bad not physically but just not overall doing so well, shed just be in fear and sleeping constantly which isn't the case. She wants to walk around as she used to, just of course at time she confuses herself and such.

Aside from blindness, is there anything else her high blood pressure could affect her with symptoms? Really wish there was a way I could avoid bringing her to vet to just check her pressure as Im afraid it would just spike up - and check her pressure at home with own machine? Because clearly she wasnt as blind before this first visit, it stressed the her out, her BP shot way up ontop of being high already, and then now shes like further blind and such.

The other thing is her medication. Like I put it on when shes in bed usually. I think I brought this up before. Her ear would at times get tucked inside under her head as she curls up in bed. Isnt there fear or worries she might rub off medication on bed? And are we not allowed to touch near her ear once cream is on? Because I loved to rub her forehead and she loved to pet her head on my hand too and such, and if i just hug her around, she tucks her head and begins to even purr a bit too.

And is it possible for her eyes pupils to constrict in day light if she was totally blind?