Yet More Misinformation By Bird Scientists About Feral Cats

[catman925]

This is pissing me off.

I know there is a history of conflict between bird conservators and cat rescuers, but I didn't know it was this ugly.

This article: (These Bird Scientists Say Feral Cat Advocates Are Lying About Science Just Like Climate Deniers) not only tries to claim that TNR (Trap/Nueter/Return) is ineffective in reducing population blooms in feral cats (which is hogwash; I've been doing cat rescue for 7 years now and I know it's an effective solution, not even counting in the simple fact that a sterilized cat "automagically" stops that cat from contributing more to the population), but it goes on to claim that toxoplasmosis (a parasite that is zoonotic-can infect most warm-blooded mammals and can be transmitted from an infected cat to a human) is [emphasis mine] "..THE leading cause of death from foodborne illnesses" in the US then provides a link to an information page about toxoplasmosis on the CDC website. The article also implies, almost explicitly, that cats are the sole reason for those deaths.

A quick study of the CDC page itself (CDC - Toxoplasmosis) however, reveals, in the very first sentence no less, that [again, emphasis mine] "Toxoplasmosis is CONSIDERED to be A leading cause of death attributed to foodborne illness in the United States." Not "THE", but "A" leading cause. And "IS CONSIDERED" not "IS", meaning this is something that is still being worked out and does not have enough data to make a concrete determination yet.

I was curious, then, as to just how dangerous is this situation and how much do feral cats, or just cats in general, contribute to this "epidemic" the content of the article seems to imply?

First, let's look at if the CDC CONSIDERS toxoplasmosis to be A leading cause of death from foodborne illnesses, how "leading" is it compared to other foodborne illnesses, how many deaths are we talking about, and are cats the leading cause of transmission?

According to the referenced CDC page, "More than 40 million men, women, and children in the U.S. carry the Toxoplasmaparasite, but very few have symptoms".

Another CDC page (CDC - Toxoplasmosis - Epidemiology & Risk Factors) states "In the United States it is estimated that 11% of the population 6 years and older have been infected with Toxoplasma." It goes on to state that humans aquire toxoplasmosis through "three principal routes of transmission: Foodborne [raw or contaminated meat, poultry or fish], Animal-to-Human (Zoonotic) and Mother-to-Child (Congenital)" with additional rare forms of transmission as well. While I was unable to find out on the CDC website what proportion each of these routes of transmission contribute to the overall number of infections, this study from The American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene (Neglected Parasitic Infections in the United States: Toxoplasmosis), states "The proportion of human T. gondii infections acquired by eating meat containing infective cysts versus ingesting oocysts from cat feces contamination is not known for a representative sample of the general population".

Okay, so you getting all this so far?

Here's a breakdown, using for the most part THE VERY SAME RESOURCE the bird scientists referenced:

- CDC "CONSIDERS" toxoplasmosis as "A" leading cause of death from foodborne illnesses. Not "THE" leading cause.
- An estimated "11% of the population 6 years and older have been infected with Toxoplasma" and although they carry the Toxoplasmaparasite, "very few have symptoms". I would think death is probably a good "symptom".
- Rather than portraying cats as the sole cause of infection as the article does, the CDC says that humans aquire toxoplasmosis through "three principal routes of transmission"
- Regarding those routes of transmission, the study from The American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene, says it "is not known" what the proportion of transmission is between the three. As opposed to the article's implication that contact with cats is the sole or even main route of transmission.

Okay, so now our final two questions: How many deaths are we talking about? And how "leading" is toxoplasmosis in US deaths?

From the CDC (Burden of Foodborne Illness: Findings | Estimates of Foodborne Illness | CDC):
"CDC estimates that each year roughly 1 in 6 Americans (or 48 million people) gets sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die of foodborne diseases."

That's 3000 deaths from ALL foodborne illnesses. In a country of 327.2 million people (as of 2018), 3000 deaths from ALL foodborne illnesses is 0.0000091687% of the population.

What are the top 5 (of 31) foodborne illnesses that cause death in the US?

- Salmonella, nontyphoidal - 378 deaths, 28% of total
- Toxoplasma gondii - 327 deaths, 24% of total
- Listeria monocytogenes - 255, 19%
- Norovirus - 119, 11%
- Campylobacter spp. - 76, 6%

327 deaths (or 0.0000009994% of population) attributed to toxoplasmosis. Proportion attributed to contact with cats: unknown.

Hardly (*cough*) an epidemic health risk requiring, as many in the bird conservatory community advocate, the systematic euthanasia of all feral cat colonies.

It gets worse.

On top of all that baloney, the scientists the article is about actually have the gall to accuse animal welfare enthusiasts and cat rescue groups of a concerted misinformation campaign, even comparing us to "climate change deniers".

To me, that is the most despicable low and base insult. To me, claiming we are engaging in a misinformation campaign while using their very own misinformation campaign is exactly at the level of stinky, slime-ridden politics and dirty propaganda apparatus that the Nazis employed while brainwashing the German public in the runup to WW2. Sorry I went there, but there's hardly a better comparison.

I truly wish this wasn't so. But hopefully, with the data I have presented here, you can see this is true.

Thanks for reading. I really needed to vent that out. I'd be happy to hear your responses.

many purrs
-Art Main
PAWSitivelySAFE
California

 

[white shadow]

.
Let's keep mind that both the BuzzFeed article and the paper it's based on......are almost 2 years old, from January 2018.
.

 

[MissClouseau]

This issue is far more annoying and misleading than you see. I've never used cat forums or alike until this year so had no idea about some international positions about cats. (I'm from Turkey.) This year I've been all over forums, Reddit subs.. it was shocking how many Americans and some Australians were super hardcore anti-outdoor and keep bringing cats damaging wildlife and specifically talking about birds. Regardless of where the person they speak to is from.

That confused me right off the bat. As some of you know there are street cats EVERYWHERE in Istanbul and it is extremely rare to see them even try to hunt a bird. Not to mention there is no large variety of birds everywhere in the world. But anyway even for the USA that confused me like are the tabbies there so much more skilled hunters that they go after birds?

Then I realized they have included bobcats in their stats too, for example! Not just like a stray or feral tabby, but also bobcats, lynxes, etc But in their wording it's just "cats" and they don't even mention their stats are limited to certain geographies and conditions. e.g. A cat who isn't getting fed is of course more likely to hunt than a cat who is getting fed and is outside just to roam around.

This is extra annoying because it's also things like this that make people lose their trust in science and/or stats and that's beyond dangerous for all us. As we are seeing with anti-vaccination trend in some countries.

 

[Willowy]

Cats are necessary in the toxoplasmosis life cycle. So I suppose that if no cats existed, neither would toxoplasmosis. . .but I don't think anyone wants ALL cat species eradicated. So right there they're using bad reasoning.

One thing that people don't seem to consider is that, even if feral cats do spread disease, if they're removed something will move in to fill the void. Foxes, raccoons, bobcats, possums, etc. If there's food (trash, rodents, unattended pet food, etc.) someone will move in. And wild animals spread way more diseases than altered, vaccinated cats do. There is a place in urban/suburban areas (and even farms and other populated rural areas, because people don't like wild animals staying in the barn) for a small rodent-eating predator, and if there are no cats to fill that place, we'll get something else. And humans are way more comfortable around cats than other small predators.

 

[fionasmom]

I agree that these vile attacks on cats are fueled my manipulated statistics which have put all cats in the same category. The TNRed ferals who live on my property never go after birds because they have no interest in using them for food. They will chase a little, but then saunter over to their own food to eat.

Due to the fact that I have vines on my house (my bad) we have had rat problems. It is exacerbated by the fact that I also put out some bird food which then attracted the rats, so I had my own little food chain going here....but no outdoor cats at the time. Well, the rats, even though there were not that many, got into the attic and chewed the wiring to the heating/AC and almost caused a fire, chewed the condensate lines because they were looking for water, and chewed something under the hood of my car which made it fail a smog check. We took out a pricey contract with Orkin to deal with them. Despite the fact that I hate to kill anything and think rats are actually cute, it was now a level playing field.

A year ago there appeared a pregnant female and several other cats in the area. All were TNRed, the majority true ferals with no hope of ever being domesticated. Well, guess who left...the rats and Orkin. As was pointed out, if nothing else, the eradication of an entire species as is suggested in certain parts of the world will only skew everything.

 

[tnrmakessense]

In 2003 I was part of a coalition of Florida T/N/R groups , Alley Cat Allies and Dr Julie Levy of Operation Catnip at U.F. that formed to protest the Florida Fish & Wildlife's proposed policy regarding feral cats. Pamela Jo Hatley, a law student at Florida State University was the author of the most quoted article in FWC and American Bird Conservancy literature supporting the policy. It was her doctoral thesis and was/is titled "Feral Cat Colonies in Florida : The Fur and Feathers are Flying". This often quoted "expert" is also a singer/songwriter and her song "Feral Cat Blues" was performed at an FWC meeting and is still available to download on her music website. So the junk science we continue to see published nationally about cat predation doesn't surprise me. If that sounds jaded or paranoid, prior to the FWC public hearing about the policy, two FWC employees thought they'd hung up after a phone call to Alley Cat Allies, but were recorded on voicemail joking about killing cats. The FWC opened the hearing by saying that they'd already dealt with the employees and didn't want any more discussion about it.

One of the other studies offered by the FWC and ABC was an FSU student's video observation of a colony of feral cats. In 300 hours there was NO video of a bird being killed. But feathers were observed near a cat and that's what was focused on as evidence of predation.

I did a FOIA for another anti-T/N/R study published by (I believe) the Department of the Interior. It was 99% redacted.

In the end the FWC commissioners listened to an hour of testimony, and in two minutes voted to pass the policy. The wording was eventually softened but I continue to be astounded by what is quoted as "science" in opposition to T/N/R.

 

[catman925]

In 2003 I was part of a coalition of Florida T/N/R groups , Alley Cat Allies and Dr Julie Levy of Operation Catnip at U.F. that formed to protest the Florida Fish & Wildlife's proposed policy regarding feral cats. Pamela Jo Hatley, a law student at Florida State University was the author of the most quoted article in FWC and American Bird Conservancy literature supporting the policy. It was her doctoral thesis and was/is titled "Feral Cat Colonies in Florida : The Fur and Feathers are Flying". This often quoted "expert" is also a singer/songwriter and her song "Feral Cat Blues" was performed at an FWC meeting and is still available to download on her music website. So the junk science we continue to see published nationally about cat predation doesn't surprise me. If that sounds jaded or paranoid, prior to the FWC public hearing about the policy, two FWC employees thought they'd hung up after a phone call to Alley Cat Allies, but were recorded on voicemail joking about killing cats. The FWC opened the hearing by saying that they'd already dealt with the employees and didn't want any more discussion about it.

One of the other studies offered by the FWC and ABC was an FSU student's video observation of a colony of feral cats. In 300 hours there was NO video of a bird being killed. But feathers were observed near a cat and that's what was focused on as evidence of predation.

I did a FOIA for another anti-T/N/R study published by (I believe) the Department of the Interior. It was 99% redacted.

In the end the FWC commissioners listened to an hour of testimony, and in two minutes voted to pass the policy. The wording was eventually softened but I continue to be astounded by what is quoted as "science" in opposition to T/N/R.

thanks for the info.

crazy about the FWC employees.

The whole debate perplexes me. Yes, traditionally, cats and birds aren't the best of friends. But seems to me bird lovers and cat lovers should have so much in common, including many common enemies and many common goals. Having the two animal-loving groups at odds is one thing, but to compound that with shoddy science, THEN conduct themselves in a win-at-all costs stance of war, where congeniality (and apparently truth) is no longer a necessary consideration, that just sucks.

I really don't get it. The only thing that does make sense to me is the note that those types of attitudes are more prevalent in the US. After all, we're the only developed country in the world that is still debating on if climate change is real. The other countries' debates center on how to fix things.

Well, on both topics, I'm glad I mostly hold myself to a strict adherence to finding the truth regardless if it fits my thinking or not. I say mostly because I'm lazy sometimes or I lose interest. But I will always never knowingly misspeak what I understand is true. If I don't know the info sufficiently, that's what I'd say.

I have a sneaky suspicion that's why I've never gotten rich...

 

[tnrmakessense]

thanks for the info.

crazy about the FWC employees.

The whole debate perplexes me. Yes, traditionally, cats and birds aren't the best of friends. But seems to me bird lovers and cat lovers should have so much in common, including many common enemies and many common goals. Having the two animal-loving groups at odds is one thing, but to compound that with shoddy science, THEN conduct themselves in a win-at-all costs stance of war, where congeniality (and apparently truth) is no longer a necessary consideration, that just sucks.

I really don't get it. The only thing that does make sense to me is the note that those types of attitudes are more prevalent in the US. After all, we're the only developed country in the world that is still debating on if climate change is real. The other countries' debates center on how to fix things.

Well, on both topics, I'm glad I mostly hold myself to a strict adherence to finding the truth regardless if it fits my thinking or not. I say mostly because I'm lazy sometimes or I lose interest. But I will always never knowingly misspeak what I understand is true. If I don't know the info sufficiently, that's what I'd say.

I have a sneaky suspicion that's why I've never gotten rich...

Sooooo well put. Whoever you are in real life, you're a keeper.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Here is an article hot off the presses about bird losses -- and contrary to the haters' ignorant opinions, it sure ain't about cats:
Who killed 2.9 billion birds since 1970? Not cats, says a look through the glass!

 

[tarasgirl06]

thanks for the info.

crazy about the FWC employees.

The whole debate perplexes me. Yes, traditionally, cats and birds aren't the best of friends. But seems to me bird lovers and cat lovers should have so much in common, including many common enemies and many common goals. Having the two animal-loving groups at odds is one thing, but to compound that with shoddy science, THEN conduct themselves in a win-at-all costs stance of war, where congeniality (and apparently truth) is no longer a necessary consideration, that just sucks.

I really don't get it. The only thing that does make sense to me is the note that those types of attitudes are more prevalent in the US. After all, we're the only developed country in the world that is still debating on if climate change is real. The other countries' debates center on how to fix things.

Well, on both topics, I'm glad I mostly hold myself to a strict adherence to finding the truth regardless if it fits my thinking or not. I say mostly because I'm lazy sometimes or I lose interest. But I will always never knowingly misspeak what I understand is true. If I don't know the info sufficiently, that's what I'd say.

I have a sneaky suspicion that's why I've never gotten rich...

*on ALL of the above*

 

[fionasmom]

That is a fascinating article. Everyone raise your hand you has seen birds fly into windows and kill themselves or has put decals on windows to stop it.

Here's another aspect of that same situation. I was at the mall very early one morning to walk inside with others who use that for exercise in bad weather. As I pull up, I saw a Canada goose lying in the parking lot, evidently alive but stunned. I called the Pasadena Humane Society as they are certified wildlife rehabers and also a local bird rescue group.

The Los Angeles Arboretum is very close to the mall and Canada geese inhabit it by the hundreds at certain times of the year, so I assumed that this goose was trying to get back there.

Ultimately, the bird rescue group told me that in the bad weather and darkish sky, the goose believed that he saw water, not a concrete parking lot, and made the big dive. I do not know if he made it, but he was taken to a rescue. Oddly, the mall is home to a large number of ferals who are TNRed and live in the ground covering and keep down rodents but there were no cats in sight.

 

[tarasgirl06]

That is a fascinating article. Everyone raise your hand you has seen birds fly into windows and kill themselves or has put decals on windows to stop it.

Here's another aspect of that same situation. I was at the mall very early one morning to walk inside with others who use that for exercise in bad weather. As I pull up, I saw a Canada goose lying in the parking lot, evidently alive but stunned. I called the Pasadena Humane Society as they are certified wildlife rehabers and also a local bird rescue group.

The Los Angeles Arboretum is very close to the mall and Canada geese inhabit it by the hundreds at certain times of the year, so I assumed that this goose was trying to get back there.

Ultimately, the bird rescue group told me that in the bad weather and darkish sky, the goose believed that he saw water, not a concrete parking lot, and made the big dive. I do not know if he made it, but he was taken to a rescue. Oddly, the mall is home to a large number of ferals who are TNRed and live in the ground covering and keep down rodents but there were no cats in sight.

Feral cats are not usually seen by the public if their colonies are well cared for. They eat and drink, and then go to cover, because they are well aware of the hazards of life in a human-dominated society.
Good move on your part with the goose!

 

[basscat]

Research.
1) How many birds are there?
2) How many birds do "they" say are killed each year by cats?
3) How many birds killed from other reasons?
4) List of bird species that are not typically affected by cats (eagles, hawks, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc).
5) How many of unaffected species' are there?
And..
6) How many years has this been going on?
7) Do the math

Conclusion: Birds have obviously been extinct for hundreds of years.

 

[Willowy]

Haha, yes, I once made that argument when arguing with an anti-feral guy. If cats kill as many birds as they say, there wouldn't be any birds left. I did the math and everything. He was not impressed.

(Short math: 10-20 billion birds in US. Estimated predation by cats, high side, around 3 billion. They aren't killing geese and eagles, obviously. So let's say 50% of birds are not targeted by cats. So that means they're killing 1/3 to 2/3 of all the small birds in the US. And birds are also dying by other causes. So logically there should be no birds left, or a whole lot fewer anyway.)

 

[tarasgirl06]

Research.
1) How many birds are there?
2) How many birds do "they" say are killed each year by cats?
3) How many birds killed from other reasons?
4) List of bird species that are not typically affected by cats (eagles, hawks, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc).
5) How many of unaffected species' are there?
And..
6) How many years has this been going on?
7) Do the math

Conclusion: Birds have obviously been extinct for hundreds of years.

Yeah, and cats have overrun the entire planet long, long ago.

 

[Kflowers]

Here are two of interest relating the immediate and delayed affect of
pesticides on birds

Pesticides – including weed killers, fungicides, insecticides, and rodenticides – can be highly toxic to birds, both by directly poisoning them and by altering the ecosystem they depend on for survival. It’s estimated that at least 67 millions birds die in the U.S. each year due to pesticide toxicity. In addition to bird mortality, pesticides have been shown to harm birds by:

• Killing insects that are eaten by birds.
• Accumulating in fish and small animals, which are then passed to predatory birds at higher doses.
• Killing plants that produce edible seeds.
• Eliminating vegetation used for nesting and escape from predators.
• Causing nonlethal, but nonetheless dangerous, health issues among surviving birds, including thinned eggshells, suppressed immune systems, and disorientation while migrating.

Lawn Treatments That Are Safe for Birds | Today's Homeowner

more at this site

The 2030 Challenge: stop the rot, protect the best and restore the rest

The UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration starts on World Environment Day on 5 June. ‘About time too’ many will cry, because nature is in crisis.

www.birdlife.org

 

[tarasgirl06]

Here are two of interest relating the immediate and delayed affect of
pesticides on birds

Pesticides – including weed killers, fungicides, insecticides, and rodenticides – can be highly toxic to birds, both by directly poisoning them and by altering the ecosystem they depend on for survival. It’s estimated that at least 67 millions birds die in the U.S. each year due to pesticide toxicity. In addition to bird mortality, pesticides have been shown to harm birds by:

• Killing insects that are eaten by birds.
• Accumulating in fish and small animals, which are then passed to predatory birds at higher doses.
• Killing plants that produce edible seeds.
• Eliminating vegetation used for nesting and escape from predators.
• Causing nonlethal, but nonetheless dangerous, health issues among surviving birds, including thinned eggshells, suppressed immune systems, and disorientation while migrating.

Lawn Treatments That Are Safe for Birds | Today's Homeowner

more at this site

http://[URL]https://www.birdlife.or...ticides-silent-bird-killers-protect-our-crops

[/URL]

Yup! The facts have always shown that it is US, rather than anyone else, and certainly rather than cats, that are responsible for the vast majority of bird deaths. *Now someone get this through the bonehead bird fanatic cat haters' thick, thick skulls!*

 

[Kflowers]

Just like the birders don't seem to count the plastic that kills sea birds.
so much easier to attack cats than pollution and more comfortable to
avoid taking any responsibility.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Just like the birders don't seem to count the plastic that kills sea birds.
so much easier to attack cats than pollution and more comfortable to
avoid taking any responsibility.

 

[mailynsca]

I don't understand why some people have trouble with how nature works. Animals hunt to feed and live. Humans have always. Why is it bad for cats to eat birds? I love birds and try to always help if I see an injured one or a baby. But it's like not wanting a lion to eat a zebra or something. If it's a natural predator/prey situation I don't think humans should intervene. Unless the prey is injured or young because then they don't even get a fighting chance. Ok sorry for me rambling.