Wysong Epigen canned - perfect or not?

[zoneout]

Well I have been on this project today to find a different canned food than the Wellness chicken or turkey for my cats.   It has to be the large 13 oz cans, minimum fruit/veggie fillers, in fact minimum everything except meat and the required vitamins.   So all I could come up with that was close was EVO 95% and Wysong Epigen.   The Epigen is intriguing since it only lists 5 ingredients. Ingredients:  Chicken, Water Sufficient for Processing, Natural Flavor, Organic Guar Gum, Mixed Tocopherols.   When I checked the price it was only $8 more per case than Wellness.   Seems perfect except for the ubiquitous guar gum.    Then I realized there was no taurine or other vital essentials.   Sure enough they advertise this as something to use in rotation with other foods.

Do they need a rocket scientist to figure out to get rid of the guar and add the essentials and they might have the perfect canned food.   This stuff drives me nuts.  Maybe I can throw in some Alnutrin and be done with it.... sheesh

 

[lokhismom]

Have you looked at Daves or Lotus?    They both come in the 12.5 oz cans.    

Daves is pretty economical 

http://www.chewy.com/cat/daves-pet-food-naturally-healthy/dp/51681

 

[zoneout]

Yes I saw Dave's and lotus. They both use veggie and fruit fillers same as wellness. The only one that doesn't and is also nutritionally complete that I could find is the Evo 95. I am kind of confused though cause if you look on catinfo.org it shows that the Evo 95 is very high in carbs - like 70%. How is that possible??? I don't see what ingredient they use that is a heavy starch or sugar. I'll post the ingredients next in case anyone can figure it out.

 

[zoneout]

Ok here is the ingredients I copied off chewy.

Chicken, Chicken Broth, Turkey, Natural Flavors, Carrageenan, Minerals, Guar Gum, Vitamins, Choline Chloride, Herring Oil, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Ascorbate, Taurine, Sunflower Oil, Sodium Phosphate, Beta Carotene

It looks kinda perfect to me except for the freakin guar and carrageenan. And priced about the same as wellness. So either catinfo.org got it wrong or guar and carrageenan are a heavy dose of carb.

Thoughts???

 

[2cats4me]

Yes I saw Dave's and lotus. They both use veggie and fruit fillers same as wellness. The only one that doesn't and is also nutritionally complete that I could find is the Evo 95. I am kind of confused though cause if you look on catinfo.org it shows that the Evo 95 is very high in carbs - like 70%. How is that possible??? I don't see what ingredient they use that is a heavy starch or sugar. I'll post the ingredients next in case anyone can figure it out.

I do not trust that chart on catinfo.org .   I don't think it is up to date.. 

If I want to know the carb content for example . I contact the manufacturer myself ..

Evo 95 is very low carbs .. If I remember correctly it is under 5%

 

[lokhismom]

Where does it say 70%?     I'm reading all cans of Evo are 5% or below in carbs.

But Dr Pierson does write this about Evo

 
Important point:   Do not fall for labels that state "95% meat".  Why?  Because "meat" can simply be high-fat meat trimmings.  The word "meat" includes fat as well as protein so "meat" does not necessarily mean "high protein".  Keep in mind that lean meats go to the human market  and the high-fat meat trimmings are routed to the pet food market.

Example:  Natura EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey:

• 
  Protein calories = 25%
• 
  Fat calories = 73%
• 
  Carbohydrate calories = 2%

Does this annoy me?  You bet it does given how much some of these so-called 'premium' diets cost.  Considering their price tag, it would be nice to see a higher protein/lower fat level - especially for any chubby cat that is on a weight loss program.  Otherwise the cat can end up in a state of protein malnourishment when the calories are restricted for weight loss.  (See my Feline Obesity  page.)

However, as noted above, cats do not necessarily need diets that are >50% protein and <40% fat.  For instance, I have had ~550 cats and kittens go through my foster room over the years that have grown and thrived on adult canned Wellness - Chicken or Turkey.  (I use Wellness because it comes in 12 ounce cans which are more economical than the smaller cans.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods

 

[zoneout]

You know what, I got the fat and carb columns confused on catinfo.org.

  I double-checked and sure enough the EVO 95% says 73% fat ... not carb.

But leave it to Dr. Pierson to spot the marketing scam from Innova.   She is beyond a hero to me.   

Well so there I have it.   Trying to find a canned food I can feel good about is quite hopeless it seems.   

 

[sarah ann]

I got 41 percent protein and 48 percent fat for Evo based off of their nutritional analysis once converted to a dry matter basis.
http://fnae.org/dmb.html?inputboxm=74&inputboxi=12.66&button.x=93&button.y=24&button=Click

That was for the 95 percent chicken.

Epigen does not yet have a nutritional analysis available. Until they come out with those values, you cannot figure out what it is low in. The previous formula aus jus was low in taurine, manganese, and folic acid, and vitamin D. At least the rabbit was... I emailed the company to ask about the Epigen.

 

[zoneout]

I got 41 percent protein and 48 percent fat for Evo based off of their nutritional analysis once converted to a dry matter basis.
http://fnae.org/dmb.html?inputboxm=74&inputboxi=12.66&button.x=93&button.y=24&button=Click

That was for the 95 percent chicken.

Thanks but even 48 percent fat on a DMB is still eye-popping high.    They are probably tossing loads of chicken skins into the mix.   

Epigen does not yet have a nutritional analysis available. Until they come out with those values, you cannot figure out what it is low in. The previous formula aus jus was low in taurine, manganese, and folic acid, and vitamin D. At least the rabbit was... I emailed the company to ask about the Epigen.

Wysong readily states that Epigen is not nutritionally complete.  There is no AAFCO certification on the label and it states:

Use Epigen[emoji]8482[/emoji] Canned Diets as a supplement to Wysong dry diets, and rotate with fresh foods and Wysong True Non-Thermal[emoji]8482[/emoji] raw foods.

 

[ankitty]

Are they BPA free?

 

[zoneout]

Is who BPA free?   I can`t even find decent food let alone a decent can.

 

[ankitty]

 
Is who BPA free?   I can`t even find decent food let alone a decent can.

I know. It's really frustrating. Why can't they just make it simple?

It's also the same with human food. I can't eat carrageenan and Costco had this great looking chocolate croissant which contains carrageenan! Why do they need thickener in chocolate croissant?

 

[zoneout]

 
I know. It's really frustrating. Why can't they just make it simple?

It's also the same with human food. I can't eat carrageenan and Costco had this great looking chocolate croissant which contains carrageenan! Why do they need thickener in chocolate croissant?

OMG, chocolate croissants!  Good ones are hard to find.   But warmed up and with a nice cup of coffee .... just heaven.

 

[lokhismom]

I think think the best canned food is too damn expensive for the average person to feed.   Stuff like Tiki cat and Ziwipeak.  I'd love to feed all the time but with 2 kitties I can't. 

 

[2cats4me]

 
I think think the best canned food is too damn expensive for the average person to feed.   Stuff like Tiki cat and Ziwipeak.  I'd love to feed all the time but with 2 kitties I can't. 

So true .. 

 

[ankitty]

 
I think think the best canned food is too damn expensive for the average person to feed.   Stuff like Tiki cat and Ziwipeak.  I'd love to feed all the time but with 2 kitties I can't. 

I don't have many choices. I'd love to feed my cats inexpensive food if they didn't vomit on my bed every morning. 

  Also whatever I save for cat food can be wiped out by one emergency visit. I'm moving towards feeding homemade food to save some money, though. 

 

[ankitty]

@zoneout

Someone on another forum suggested this one. Have you tried it?

http://www.holisticselect.com/product.aspx?pet=cat&cat=2&pid=91 

 

[zoneout]

Hmmm... I did see it and initially rejected it due to all the weird ingredients like pomegranite powder and cinnamon.   But on second look it may not be so bad... no guar or carrageenan for one thing (though it does have Xanthan).  No vegetables which I like.   And the price is a bit more than wellness but still in my range.   It got good reviews on Chewy not so much on Amazon cause they changed the recipe apparently.

But at this point I am willing to give it a try.   Maybe rotate with the same priced Epigen every now and then.   Will update with results.

Thanks @ankitty

 

 

[chromium blues]

Where does a cat get its fibre if all it eats is meat and vitamins? Even in the wild they eat some vegetable matter, albeit in the digestive tracts of the prey they kill.

 

[ankitty]

 
Where does a cat get its fibre if all it eats is meat and vitamins? Even in the wild they eat some vegetable matter, albeit in the digestive tracts of the prey they kill.

This article suggests they don't need it. 

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/ktudor/2012/june/do_cats_need_fiber_in_their_diet-25083