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Would anyone like to actually talk about Trump???

Discussion in 'IMO: In My Opinion' started by mschauer, Nov 30, 2016.

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  1. mschauer

    mschauer Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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    I mean, talk about what he does since being elected as opposed to endlessly rehashing the election and why he won or why Clinton lost or what the Democrats need to do if they want to win next time.

    I'll kick it off with the topic of the 1000 jobs Trump has convinced Carrier to leave in Indiana rather than move to Mexico.

    First, I think it is great that Trump has spent so much time making this happen especially given he is trying to put his cabinet together at the same time. I hope it is a signal that he realizes the importance of keeping his campaign promise to preserve existing and create new jobs for working class Americans.

    But, while 1000 of the Carrier jobs will be staying in the US another 1100 (is that right?) are still going to Mexico. Carriers parent company is a defense contractor with significant revenues coming from government contracts. I wonder, especially given that not all of the Carrier jobs are staying in the US, if the 1000 staying are just a symbolic gesture by Carrier to give Trump something to tweet about rather than Trump convincing them that under his administration the business environment will change so that they don't want to move.

    The deal supposedly includes Trump agreeing to tone down his call for heavy import tariffs on goods from US companies that have moved from the US.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016

  2. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    According to this (written before the change): http://www.kellerheating.com/support/carrier-to-mexico/
    , about 300 jobs were going to stay in IN anyway. Not sure if the 1000 includes those 300 or not. I suppose I'm too cynical to think they made the decision for any reason other than that they had already decided to keep those jobs there.

    An argument that we shouldn't ignore his lies, no matter how ridiculous, because they could happen: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...6/11/the_truth_about_donald_trump_s_lies.html

    Honestly, everything he writes on Twitter is horrible. Some people say it's a distraction, some people say to ignore the troll. Some people just think that he says too many horrible things to pay attention to all of them. But someone has to pay attention. If he said them in any other venue, it would be considered a dereliction of duty for a reporter to ignore them. Twitter shouldn't be treated any differently.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
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  3. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    It's hard to really know about the Carrier deal itself because we don't know about the specifics.  I did find this article that used Carrier to talk about this issues with the working class in general  http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/11/carrier-deal/509201/

    One statistic in that article really stuck out to me, 1/3 of those who lost a manufacturing job have dropped completely out of the labor force within 12 years.  We lived in Youngstown for two years after the steel mills shut down.  A lot of people worked for money under the table and a lot of people did odd jobs, a very subsistence survival type of living.  This article does go into the damage that all the tax breaks to lure businesses do to states.  It also goes into the effect of lowering the corporate tax rate.  

    We aren't the only country dealing with this, so is Europe.  The result of globalization and technology is that there just aren't as many jobs available.  The result of that is a growing gulf between the haves and have not's.  It also means a diminishing middle class.  There are no simple easy answers.  I think what has made people so angry was that the political class was acting as though the problem didn't exist.  There was this race for more and more trade deals without acknowledging the growing issues with people that have been left out in the cold.
     

  4. mschauer

    mschauer Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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    I really, really, really wish he would stop tweeting. I was actually starting to get somewhat comfortable with the idea of him as Pres ... then the tweets started again.
     
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  5. mschauer

    mschauer Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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    Can we please try to keep this thread about Donald Trump and the actions he takes rather than getting off, yet again, on side issues?
     

  6. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Wow just read this blog. Exactly how I feel, although her experiences were worse than mine (similar experiences, hers were worse in degree and scope): http://dauntlessindenver.blogspot.com/2016/11/a-personal-plea-part-10.html?m=1 (you can read the previous 9 posts for the background story). Especially this part:

    He's just, in every way, an abuser, and it's hard for those who thought (hoped) society was moving away from that :/.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016

  7. mschauer

    mschauer Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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  8. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    It is about things he is doing, or promising to do.  The deal centers around tax breaks for Carrier and changes he has pledged to make to the tax code.  He has pledged to reduce the Corporate tax rate to 15 percent and allowing companies to bring the money they are holding offshore back tax free.  His plan for infrastructure is a joint government/private sector deal.  
     

  9. mschauer

    mschauer Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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    My apologizes. I only skimmed the article and as a result I got an inaccurate impression of it.
     
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  10. mschauer

    mschauer Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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    Here's an interesting factoid: In the Obama years 2010-2016 83,000 manufacturing jobs were added in Indiana. I have no doubt that Trump will take full credit for any jobs gains during his administration. It may be difficult to tell if the jobs added were actually as a result of his policies or if they were just a result of the ongoing, however slow, economic recovery and would have happened anyway.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-manufacturing-jobs-indiana-carrier.html?_r=0
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016

  11. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    Both sides are critiquing his Treasury Secretary pick.  The progressives in the Senate are critiquing his having worked for Goldman-Sachs at one time.  Wall Street is skeptical because he isn't a heavy weight that can calm Wall Street with phone calls.  It's kind of like neither side really is happy with the pick which to me is a good sign.

    He has his own hedge fund and has worked for hedge funds.  I found a note on Forbes website that he actually at one time worked for George Soro's hedge fund.  He has in the past supported Democrats.  He was one of Hillary Clinton's donors in 2008.
     

  12. mschauer

    mschauer Thread Starter TCS Member Top Cat

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    Yeah, Steven Mnuchin, a former Goldman Sachs executive and co-investor with hedge fund billionaire George Soros. Trump slammed Clinton for supposedly being in the pocket of Wall Street and here he is putting Wall Street on his Cabinet. The hypocrisy drives me nuts.
     

  13. catmom marcia

    catmom marcia TCS Member Adult Cat

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    I for one think it would behove us to give him a chance to see what he can do.  I mean for God's sake, he isn't even inaugurated yet.  I do think he has a lot of bravado, and a healthy amount of ego, but I believe his heart is in the right place when it comes to this country.  I feel he will do everything in his power to fix the problems we have had to endure.  I believe he will surround himself with great people - I like most of his picks for cabinet, so far.  More importantly, I believe he will seek advice from subject matter experts and not party loyalists or lobbyists.  I hope he keeps his campaign promises - I think he will.  He is just biding his time until January 20th then Katie bar the door!  
     

  14. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    I for one am taking a wait and see attitude.  I hope for the sake of the country that he does do a good job, we shall see.
     

  15. DreamerRose

    DreamerRose TCS Member Top Cat

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    @Willowy  I like that quote of yours very much about how Trump reminds one of abusers. He reminds me of my husband, who acted just like Trump, and my husband was diagnosed as a narcissistic sociopath. The gaslighting is the worst part, and Trump did that all through his campaign. If you say a lie often enough, it becomes reality.

    That said, the Senate will probably put the brakes on some of his appointees. The Democrats have pledged to hold up some confirmations, and they can do it with the party split so close in the Senate. It will take only one or two senators to cross the line, and the appointee is done. I've read that Jeff Sessions is going to be put through the wringer.
     

  16. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    Jeff Sessions will get approved because he is a fellow Senator.  They will make the hearing long and nasty but he will be confirmed.  
     

  17. blueyedgirl5946

    blueyedgirl5946 TCS Member Veteran

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    Thank you for posting this. I agree. I would love to see the people just come together for the good of the country. I believe Donald Trump will do what he says.
     
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  18. Willowy

    Willowy TCS Member Top Cat

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    Yes that's the scary part. I believe he will do as he says too. He says he will persecute religious minorities, persecute political dissenters, and restrict access to health care. I'm sure that will really draw people together :/.

    In other news, he has assembled the wealthiest presidential administration ever: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...n-american-history/?client=ms-android-verizon

    His pick for Secretary of Commerce has stated that their tax policies will really help married couples who make $50,000 a year and have 2 kids and a nanny :tongue2:. So that's great news for all you working-class families with nannies! I'm sure those guys are really in touch with the average American and know exactly how to help! Way to stick it to those elites! ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  19. denice

    denice Advisor Staff Member Advisor

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    Tonight I saw a panel on Fox News.  Yes I watch Fox News as well as MSNBC, I try not to get caught in an echo chamber.  They were talking about the Carrier deal which includes tax abatements that are dependent on jobs staying in Indiana.  Charles Krauthammer, whose conservative credentials are impeccable, brought up that the old conservative ideas about the economy may not work anymore.  Of course others on the panel took exception to that.  He was saying that we may have to come up with a way to subsidize industry and jobs staying in the U.S.  It's something that has been done for awhile in other countries.  There is of course the troublesome aspect of how to pay for it.  It will have to be a form of income redistribution which has always been fiercely opposed by conservatives.  Increasing taxes on the winners in this economy to subsidize the working class.
     

  20. xlpooper

    xlpooper TCS Member Top Cat

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    Trump is going to be a great president I think. I am elated that he won.
     
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