Willy might have cancer / high-grade lymphoma Treatment thread

[cmshap]

On the dental thing: this has just been my personal experience with my dogs, cats, and 26 years of client dogs and cats. But I have noticed, especially recently as I'm paying closer attention, that pets with cancer often go from having great teeth to very poor dental health. in a short amount of time.

I heard this same comment from somebody I was talking to recently (outside of this forum). This is what started making me so worried about it.

I left a message with my general vet to discuss this. I talked to my oncologost, who said that for all advice on such matters, I need to talk to my general vet first, and then records will be exchanged between the two practices before anything is done.

 

[cmshap]

You all like pictures. Just some pics of grooming and sleeping in the sun.

This is 14 days post-chemo, by the way.

 

[iPappy]

I heard this same comment from somebody I was talking to recently (outside of this forum). This is what started making me so worried about it.

I left a message with my general vet to discuss this. I talked to my oncologost, who said that for all advice on such matters, I need to talk to my general vet first, and then records will be exchanged between the two practices before anything is done.

I would want to talk to my general vet, too. Oncologist is a cancer specialist, and unless there's a tumor in the oral cavity they don't tend to specialize much in that and the GP would probably be the better person to talk with.
Whoever you talked to about this before...did they notice any improvement in dental health once the cancer was in remission? I'm really curious if once the cancer is tampered down if their bodies can "undo" some of the damage done to their teeth and gums.

 

[cmshap]

Whoever you talked to about this before...did they notice any improvement in dental health once the cancer was in remission?

I unfortunately didn't get that many details, but there was no remission in this case. It was specifically a story about a dog who developed stomach cancer, and then had dental problems pretty fast right after.

The stomach cancer was aggressive and the dog had to be euthanized, but the dental problems were a thing that happened shortly after.

It was just the connection of cancer --> dental problems that added to my worry, in the case of this story.

 

[tarasgirl06]

You all like pictures. Just some pics of grooming and sleeping in the sun.

This is 14 days post-chemo, by the way.

Willy looks happy and comfortable!
Just remember, whatever you do, that each case is unique and each being, likewise. Just because something may follow a similar pattern does not mean it will be the same!

 

[iPappy]

I unfortunately didn't get that many details, but there was no remission in this case. It was specifically a story about a dog who developed stomach cancer, and then had dental problems pretty fast right after.

The stomach cancer was aggressive and the dog had to be euthanized, but the dental problems were a thing that happened shortly after.

It was just the connection of cancer --> dental problems that added to my worry, in the case of this story.

My GSD developed a very aggressive and malignant form of cancer, and before I knew what was wrong I noticed a few things he never had before: gunky teeth, gunky ears, eye boogars, and he was losing top coat (not undercoat). Tag started losing his incisors on his 7th birthday (not uncommon for a dog his size), but, as his cancer showed it's ugly head his teeth did get gunky. I had always been one to brush his teeth, and despite doing it often, it was almost like his teeth collected a "film" over them. It was very upsetting.
I do now see it as a possible sign now, and if I ever have a dog or cat with excellent teeth that start to go south, hopefully it can be used as a tool for me to know it's time to get them into the vet ASAP.

 

[cmshap]

I do now see it as a possible sign now, and if I ever have a dog or cat with excellent teeth that start to go south, hopefully it can be used as a tool for me to know it's time to get them into the vet ASAP.

Thank you for the story, and I'm sorry that happened.

Willy's teeth actually haven't gone south fast, like you described. When I look at his chart, he was diagnosed with gingivitis in 2022 (which I never realized, but I never got his chart until now), and then was diagnosed with dental disease in September 2023. And the dental disease diagnosis was done by a new vet who examined him for the first time (but like I keep saying, a new vet that I trust).

But in the last ~6 months I noticed increased drooling. And then upon my new vet's first exam, she actually showed me his gum inflammation. And would have recommended a dental cleaning/procedure, if not for the cancer. But there was no severe problem yet, like loose teeth or an emergency.

I only noticed the drooling, and then my vet showed me his gum inflammation. Other than that, no other problems yet. But I'm worried about a possible decline. Definitely for a conversation with my vet which I will relay here.

 

[cmshap]

Willy looks happy and comfortable!
Just remember, whatever you do, that each case is unique and each being, likewise. Just because something may follow a similar pattern does not mean it will be the same!

I agree entirely.

Willy is my first cat ever, so this is generally the process I follow:

(1) Observe what I think is wrong with my cat.

(2) Post on TCS asking the question.

(3) Call my vet at the same time and ask the same question. It may take a little while to get a response, in some cases (a vet tech is always available immediately, but if I need my vet to review the larger case, it can take a moment to get a response back).

(4) I take my vet's advice most strongly, of course. But if I see alternate viewpoints from other people online who recognize similarities in my case with their own cases, and can tell me "have you considered this?" I may go back to my vet and ask follow-up questions.

Sometimes those follow-up questions are dumb, like my vet knows better (and that isn't because I received dumb advice from TCS members, but that I wrongly applied someone else's experience to my own experience). But I still learned something from the other TCS user, because I at least learned more nuances about the differences between the cases.

Since getting my first cat, I've tried to be a sponge of information.

 

[iPappy]

Thank you for the story, and I'm sorry that happened.

Willy's teeth actually haven't gone south fast, like you described. When I look at his chart, he was diagnosed with gingivitis in 2022 (which I never realized, but I never got his chart until now), and then was diagnosed with dental disease in September 2023. And the dental disease diagnosis was done by a new vet who examined him for the first time (but like I keep saying, a new vet that I trust).

But in the last ~6 months I noticed increased drooling. And then upon my new vet's first exam, she actually showed me his gum inflammation. And would have recommended a dental cleaning/procedure, if not for the cancer. But there was no severe problem yet, like loose teeth or an emergency.

I only noticed the drooling, and then my vet showed me his gum inflammation. Other than that, no other problems yet. But I'm worried about a possible decline. Definitely for a conversation with my vet which I will relay here.

Tag was diagnosed via biopsy in May 2022. His (very vague) symptoms didn't start amping up until July/August 2021. I look back on photos from the lock down in 2020, and I noticed the most subtle little things in those photos. I even have a photo I took of his eye rim that had developed a de-pigmented spot clear back in 2019.
Every single case is different. But what I've seen with my own, is cancer isn't something that is suddenly there one day, in so many cases, it takes time to develop. I'm positive with Tag at least, it was brewing for years before it really showed. And when they're acting a little "off...once in awhile" and other symptoms are just as vague or barely noticeable it's usually written off as "aging". It's frustrating for owners and vets alike.
The gingivitis noted in 2022 could be a complete coincidence, after all Willy is 11-ish?

 

[cmshap]

cancer isn't something that is suddenly there one day, in so many cases, it takes time to develop. I'm positive with Tag at least, it was brewing for years before it really showed.

I completely agree. But also that, in some cases, years could = months (like in more aggressive cases), but it nonetheless does brew over time.

I keep recalling times when I was petting Willy around his head/ears (which is a spot he's always enjoyed being petted and stroked), and I just got the slightest impression that I grazed over an irregular-feeling bump under his skin. In a few cases, I ran my fingers back over the area, and tried to compare it symmetrically to the feeling of the same area on the other side of his head... and then I'd convince myself that nothing was wrong.

But I got that subtle feeling/intuition on multiple occasions. And his current tumor is on the exact same side where I thought I felt something, but convinced myself otherwise.

I know we are many pages into this thread, at this point, but if anyone is reading this who can relate, I hope I can help. Listen to those subtle feelings, if you pet your cat a lot, and suddenly an area feels different.

Edit: Yes, Willy is about 11 years old.

 

[iPappy]

I completely agree. But also that, in some cases, years could = months (like in more aggressive cases), but it nonetheless does brew over time.

I keep recalling times when I was petting Willy around his head/ears (which is a spot he's always enjoyed being petted and stroked), and I just got the slightest impression that I grazed over an irregular-feeling bump under his skin. In a few cases, I ran my fingers back over the area, and tried to compare it symmetrically to the feeling of the same area on the other side of his head... and then I'd convince myself that nothing was wrong.

But I got that subtle feeling/intuition on multiple occasions. And his current tumor is on the exact same side where I thought I felt something, but convinced myself otherwise.

I know we are many pages into this thread, at this point, but if anyone is reading this who can relate, I hope I can help. Listen to those subtle feelings, if you pet your cat a lot, and suddenly an area feels different.

Edit: Yes, Willy is about 11 years old.

I think in some cases, even months could = weeks. If it's a fast moving one, I do believe weeks matter, unfortunately.
I've had that subtle feeling as well. It's very hard to describe, but it's just this feeling that things aren't 100% right. Comparing it symmetrically to the opposite side is a good thing to do and hopefully anyone reading this thread will remember to check that.
Levi's tumor was on his windpipe/trachea, and I never felt it, but when it managed to grow just enough to cause problems, it created a fluid filled sac along his jaw. The vet had mentioned 2-3 years before his passing that she couldn't 100% rule out that there was a tumor there, but, we were dealing with so many other problems I honestly never gave it another thought. Finding the balance between keeping anything that's going on in check vs. driving ourselves crazy can be a hard thing to do.

 

[cmshap]

I've had that subtle feeling as well. It's very hard to describe, but it's just this feeling that things aren't 100% right. Comparing it symmetrically to the opposite side is a good thing to do and hopefully anyone reading this thread will remember to check that.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

In Willy's case, I just thought I may have felt something under his left ear (where his biggest tumor eventually grew), but then I'd feel, and feel, trying to compare it to the other side of his head.

And he was totally compliant with this because it seemed like petting, BTW. But I'd feel around and then not be able to really tell. And I'd convince myself that I just felt a bone from a different angle, and thought I felt something incorrectly.

Then it reached a point where I DEFINITELY felt a lump, and that's when I brought him into my vet (who rescheduled his upcoming annual wellness exam by moving it up about a month, after I described feeling a lump).

And yes, the lump (which turned out to be lumpS) got bigger and bigger in a matter of weeks, in Willy's case.

 

[IndyJones]

While not a cancerous type, Kabuto does have a tumor on his thyroid that is responsable for his current thyroid condition. He did start getting spots in his eyes a few years ago as well but they again are suspected benine (no change in over 2 years) I often wonder if it was just coincedence or not.

 

[cmshap]

While not a cancerous type, Kabuto does have a tumor on his thyroid that is responsable for his current thyroid condition. He did start getting spots in his eyes a few years ago as well but they again are suspected benine (no change in over 2 years) I often wonder if it was just coincedence or not.

I'm new to this whole pet-with-cancer thing, and not anywhere close to being a vet, but I would see fast-moving change as the biggest marker for anything, related to cancer.

"Fast-moving" is relative, but I described how Willy's tumors took noticeably different shapes over the course of weeks/months.

Even slower change can be considered significant; in my case, the slowest change that was still considered significant was year-to-year from Willy's annual exams.

Willy was mildly overweight for almost all of his adult life, post-rescue (9-10 years ago). He was always a scarfer with a big appetite. Maybe because he went through a period of starvation before we rescued him, but he always had a big appetite after. So he was considered by all my vets to be slightly overweight for years.

But at Willy's most recent wellness exam (the exam that led to his subsequent cancer diagnosis), my vet noted weight loss as significant. I asked why weight loss would be a problem, given the fact that he was always slightly overweight. My vet said it's the change that is the symptom.

He went from around 11 lbs. (Which he was for years, consistently) to under 10 lbs. at his last exam, within the course of a year. I don't know how much of that was due to cancer, but I suspect it was.

The lumps were the main thing that set off my radar, but weight loss over the course of months (equal to or less than a year) was notable by by vet as a significant symptom as well.

 

[cmshap]

Willy looks happy and comfortable!

This is my main goal, always.

I will do whatever I can, within reasonable financial capability, to keep him happy and comfortable for as long as I can.

I will continue to detail the entire story for however long it continues. I am probably going to need help from forum members to determine when it is time to end our story, but I'm hoping that will be much later vs. sooner.

 

[IndyJones]

Kabuto has always been 12 lbs but increadably slim like a sports car. It was the vet that noticed his weight loss because he also developed a potbelly at the same time (from chd) so he looked the same weight. He did not have the typical thyroid charactristics either. The vet who diagnosed him was quite new, not that that is a bad thing, new vets often bring new ideas and knowledge of new technology with them. It was the seionor head vet that suggested checking his thyroid.

Im so glad I take the cats for yearly checkups.
If I skipped it to save money I would probably not have Kabuto right now. Keeping up on preventitive medicine is so important.

 

[cmshap]

Im so glad I take the cats for yearly checkups.
If I skipped it to save money I would probably not have Kabuto right now. Keeping up on preventitive medicine is so important.

I'm kind of learning that now. Although it's not 100% clear so I can't be sure, but I will always have doubts.

I went about 1.5 years between checkups for Willy. From early 2022 to Fall 2023. And this all coincided with my vet clinic changing ownership like I mentioned in a previous thread.

I kept pushing it off and rescheduling for a while, and saving money was a factor.

There's no way for me to know if that made a difference, but Willy's cancer symptoms were clearest near the end of that timeline, after I had been pushing off the checkup. I always wonder if I had gotten him in sooner, would my vet have detected something sooner?

 

[iPappy]

I'm kind of learning that now. Although it's not 100% clear so I can't be sure, but I will always have doubts.

I went about 1.5 years between checkups for Willy. From early 2022 to Fall 2023. And this all coincided with my vet clinic changing ownership like I mentioned in a previous thread.

I kept pushing it off and rescheduling for a while, and saving money was a factor.

There's no way for me to know if that made a difference, but Willy's cancer symptoms were clearest near the end of that timeline, after I had been pushing off the checkup. I always wonder if I had gotten him in sooner, would my vet have detected something sooner?

Possibly, but, IME unless you're willing to go into a routine check up with all guns blazing and do every test under the sun ($$$$), little things like losing a pound or two can sometimes be considered "aging". And then the choice would have been yours--explore it further, or feed him a little more to counteract weight loss/muscle loss as they begin to grow older. I usually take the more conservative approach unless something else very different in their behavior is going on that's very concerning.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Our beloved angel Rojita's Mast cell lymphoma came out of nowhere and grew massive very, very quickly. We had the recommended operation, but in no time, she was gone. It was a great shock to us. She was not old.

 

[cmshap]

Our beloved angel Rojita's Mast cell lymphoma came out of nowhere and grew massive very, very quickly. We had the recommended operation, but in no time, she was gone. It was a great shock to us. She was not old.

I'm sorry that happened.

That's what I was terrified of when Willy's tumor was growing and growing. And after his first chemo was administered, it kept growing for a day or two before starting to shrink.

It was in those days after chemo that I was convinced I was going to have to say goodbye to him any day now. I was in a bad place then.

But the next day I noticed a subtle change. I mentioned this in a previous post, but his tumors went from having a smooth surface, to having a bumpy surface. Then the next day and after, shrinkage became apparent.

They were still hard for a little while, before gradually getting softer. So the size change was faster than the pliability change.

Just recapping the experience for anyone new here. See photos I posted in a previous thread for before/after states of the tumors.