Willy might have cancer / high-grade lymphoma Treatment thread

[cmshap]

I love his expression there. "You WOKE ME UP, father!"

It's actually been tough taking daily photos of his tumor areas, which I've been trying to do, but not always successfully.

He's a "bitey" cat. I'll explain why I bring that up. And no, I don't mean "bitey" in the sense that it's a bad behavior I feel needs correcting now. Just a personality quirk (caused by me).

I had no idea what I was doing when he first showed up nearly a decade ago. He was around a year old at the time, very, very friendly and a people-cat... and I played with him using my hands. Because, me = idiot. I never had a cat before in my life.

He developed hand-biting habits, of course, and was biting quite hard back then. Over lots and lots and lots of time, I seriously worked on this, and it's no longer a problem. But he still sometimes "bites" me, which means, he just puts his teeth around my hand, but does not apply any pressure, then immediately releases.

Trust me, that's the best we can do, and to be honest, when he fake-bites me like this now, it actually tends to happen at times when I can tell he's being affectionate at the same time. As long as he doesn't hurt me, I won't negatively react. If he just puts his teeth on me and shows restraint, I will let him continue. There's always a lot of affection involved with these moments.

I brought all of that up because, for some reason, when I try to take pics of him (which I largely am doing for medical reasons right now, trying to photograph his tumor areas), he gets very, very "bitey." As in, biting-with-restraint... but he nonetheless doesn't sit still and let me do it. It's like he thinks it's a game, and starts fake-biting when I get close to that area.

No doubt, this all comes from mistakes I made when playing with him when he was young. Something about getting close with a phone, trying to take a photo, awakens memories of play time, or some kind of response like that.

 

[catloverfromwayback]

How fascinating! You're so tuned in to his behaviour.

 

[cmshap]

How fascinating! You're so tuned in to his behaviour.

He's been my best friend for almost a decade. And the guy I've lived with full-time over all those years.

I also made an effort to understand cat behavior, even though I knew I made mistakes in the past. I never really knew what I was doing... I just looked at what I saw happening, read as much about other cat people's experiences that I could find, and compared.

 

[eevans3373]

I was trying to get him sneakily while he was sleeping, but he woke up and spotted me while I took it.

That's a lovely picture of Willy. He looks great!

He developed hand-biting habits, of course, and was biting quite hard back then. Over lots and lots and lots of time, I seriously worked on this, and it's no longer a problem. But he still sometimes "bites" me, which means, he just puts his teeth around my hand, but does not apply any pressure, then immediately releases.

Cats use those soft bites to communicate. It can mean:

1. I love you human.
2. What you are doing is annoying me, stop.
3. Pay attention to me.

As long as he isn't biting hard and breaking the skin, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Maybe Willy is camera shy.

My 17-year-old used to give category 2 bites. The kittens do all 3 categories. Particularly in the morning when they want food.

 

[cmshap]

As long as he isn't biting hard and breaking the skin, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Maybe Willy is camera shy.

I get the impression he associates my phone with some kind of toy, or play time. I don't know why, except for the fact that I used to play some of those "videos for cats" on my phone in front of him. I think those videos are great, BTW, but maybe Willy thinks one is coming whenever he spots my phone nearby.

 

[iPappy]

It's actually been tough taking daily photos of his tumor areas, which I've been trying to do, but not always successfully.

He's a "bitey" cat. I'll explain why I bring that up. And no, I don't mean "bitey" in the sense that it's a bad behavior I feel needs correcting now. Just a personality quirk (caused by me).

I had no idea what I was doing when he first showed up nearly a decade ago. He was around a year old at the time, very, very friendly and a people-cat... and I played with him using my hands. Because, me = idiot. I never had a cat before in my life.

He developed hand-biting habits, of course, and was biting quite hard back then. Over lots and lots and lots of time, I seriously worked on this, and it's no longer a problem. But he still sometimes "bites" me, which means, he just puts his teeth around my hand, but does not apply any pressure, then immediately releases.

Trust me, that's the best we can do, and to be honest, when he fake-bites me like this now, it actually tends to happen at times when I can tell he's being affectionate at the same time. As long as he doesn't hurt me, I won't negatively react. If he just puts his teeth on me and shows restraint, I will let him continue. There's always a lot of affection involved with these moments.

I brought all of that up because, for some reason, when I try to take pics of him (which I largely am doing for medical reasons right now, trying to photograph his tumor areas), he gets very, very "bitey." As in, biting-with-restraint... but he nonetheless doesn't sit still and let me do it. It's like he thinks it's a game, and starts fake-biting when I get close to that area.

No doubt, this all comes from mistakes I made when playing with him when he was young. Something about getting close with a phone, trying to take a photo, awakens memories of play time, or some kind of response like that.

I do this with mine. Dogs, cats, everything. The result are dogs and cats that know how to be gentle with their mouths and learn what "play bites" are too hard, and that gentle is acceptable. I honestly don't mind it at all and find it kind of endearing. Tag and Livie (my dogs) both were terrible about play biting as puppies, and they learned that having a "soft mouth" meant game on, but clamping down even in play ended the game right then and there. Lila was a big time biter as a kitten. Now, she'll grab my hand and "bite" it, not putting any pressure into the bite. I'm weird, but I find it kind of funny.

 

[cmshap]

I honestly don't mind it at all and find it kind of endearing.

I honestly do, too. Especially because Willy used to SERIOUSLY bite when he was younger (always in play-mode, but playing too hard), and he has gradually learned how to be gentle with me.

Edit: I just wish he wouldn't do it when I'm trying to take pictures. But I guess you could say the same about doing anything medical/veterinary-related. "I wish you would just realize we're going to the vet to keep you healthy," etc.

 

[tarasgirl06]

I love love bites. The Cat 2 bites are warnings. *If you continue, I can ramp it up to Cat 3. Do you REALLY want that, primate?*
Maybe you could try giving Willy a treat whenever he does not react to your phone, cmshap ? Rewards are powerful.

 

[cmshap]

Maybe you could try giving Willy a treat whenever he does not react to your phone, cmshap ? Rewards are powerful.

That's a good idea. For a while, he had little appetite after chemotherapy. But he is food-motivated again, now, and he is in a period where I'm not holding back with feeding him, and spoiling him to make sure he takes in calories.

 

[tarasgirl06]

That's a good idea. For a while, he had little appetite after chemotherapy. But he is food-motivated again, now, and he is in a period where I'm not holding back with feeding him, and spoiling him to make sure he takes in calories.

Good on ya! and it doesn't have to be food; it could be a pinch of silvervine, catnip, or 'nip-and-'vine blend on a toy, or some SNORGLES, and verbal praise. *You can baby-talk the cat. We won't tell.*

 

[cmshap]

or some SNORGLES, and verbal praise. *You can baby-talk the cat. We won't tell.*

Baby-talk I don't personally do, but lots of general talking, I definitely do. I basically talk to him like he's my roommate, plus lots of "good boy"s when I am petting or feeding treats, to associate the verbal praise with the additional positive feedback.

He always responds to me when I talk to him like he's a person. My favorite is "what's on your mind?" when he's seeking attention. I always get a trill in response. I ask him other questions, too, and he always answers.

 

[eevans3373]

I get the impression he associates my phone with some kind of toy, or play time. I don't know why, except for the fact that I used to play some of those "videos for cats" on my phone in front of him. I think those videos are great, BTW, but maybe Willy thinks one is coming whenever he spots my phone nearby.

I don't suppose you have a tablet on hand. Could throw some cat games on that and redirect him.

I used to play bird videos on my main computer screen. Unfortunately, that lead to this sort of thing:

I haven't had a problem with my kittens being too rough. They seem to have learned appropriate use of force by playing with each other. When they were really young they would wail on each other. But have settled down considerably.

Nowadays their conflicts are minor. And for the most part they will sleep next to me during the night. But have a tendency of bringing random toys to bed.

Does Willly tend to guard you in your sleep?

 

[tarasgirl06]

eevans3373 Love the pix! I like the plaids -- they sort of go with the tabby stripes. My Elvis has a selection of toys on HIS bed (a/k/a the vast master bed, a Cal King playspace) that I freshen frequently with silvervine or 'vine-and'nip blend. He often visits them in the evenings, gets a snootfull, and indulges his "munchies" (he prefers to eat on the bed, and he has his tray, with food, water, and nightly treats, right below his toys).
cmshap I have those talks with Elvis, too! "What's on your mind?" is frequent. He's become a little more vocal recently, which I love. But he does keep secrets. He's sort of an international man of mystery.

 

[eevans3373]

He's become a little more vocal recently, which I love. But he does keep secrets. He's sort of an international man of mystery.

Odd how that works. My old man used to "talk" all the time. He had an opinion on everything. These two aren't vocal at all. I'm beginning to suspect they are gremlins in cat suits.

 

[IndyJones]

My cats aren't allowed near my tablet or phone. They are too expensive to replace if they get smashed plus cats and cords don't mix.

If you are going to do that I would buy a toddler proof kids tablet. They are built to withstand abuse.

 

[cmshap]

13 days post-chemo:

I managed to get some pics of what he looks like today, where you can see his facial profile, plus one where his chest/neck tumor is visible (the smaller of the two).

I drew outlines on one of these to show the approximate borders of the tumors as they are today.

I am also attaching another copy of the photo I took on October 31 (I put the date on the photo) to remind everyone what he looked like at that time. Edit: The Oct. 31 photo is flipped horizontally, so the tumor should look like it's on the other side in that one.

In the new pictures, the tumor looks bigger than it actually is. You can see fur sticking out under his left ear, but the protrusion is mostly fur. It's growing at odd angles, due to the tumor under the skin, plus the shaved spot just under it, so the fur sticks out more there.

He's doing well, still acting like his old self. It's great to see.

I don't suppose you have a tablet on hand. Could throw some cat games on that and redirect him.

I don't, but the concept of offering him a distraction is something I was thinking about how to do. I am sure I can figure something out.

Does Willly tend to guard you in your sleep?

I rarely slept with him for most of his life. He was always too obnoxious in the bedroom, and would come in and go out throughout the night, walk on me, etc. And I have had insomnia over the years, so it wasn't working. Plus, he'd always end up migrating to the living room anyway and sleep in one of his beds.

But now I'm letting him go wherever he wants, since he got cancer. He usually does the same thing (sleeps near me a bit, then goes out to his bed), but he's not bothering me at night anymore.

 

[cmshap]

New question about something I never brought up yet:

WIlly also has a diagnosis of dental disease.

I'm a little annoyed about this one, although perhaps it's partially my fault due to being a first-time cat owner.

I've been going to the same vet for almost the entire time I've had Willy (since ~2013 when he was about 1 year old) and always liked her, but then she sold her practice (its a cat-only practice) a couple of years ago, then the new owner sold it to another new owner shortly after that. The current vet I like a lot.

Over the years, every time I'd bring Willy in for an annual wellness exam, my vet would look at his teeth, comment on the level of tartar, etc., and said she would tell me whenever it would be time to do a teeth cleaning.

Willy had good teeth for a long time, and it wasn't deemed necessary. I figured it would be a thing that was going to come up at some point, and I should just wait until my vet tells me to do it.

The old vet never did before she sold her practice, but she also never felt it necessary to diagnose Willy with dental disease. I know this because I have his full medical file now, which I obtained since he got lymphoma.

Apparently, in early 2022, he was diagnosed with gingivitis. I honestly had no idea. I now know because I see it in his chart. But I went from then until now without realizing that fact. And the diagnosis was made by the "interim" vet (the one between my old vet and the new vet I have now).

There's a chance I didn't listen well enough, and I also now know the importance of always having your pet's current medical records. Like I said, this is my first cat, and I've learned many things over the years that I haven't been doing right.

My new, current vet diagnosed him with dental disease during the most recent exam (same exam that led to his biopsy and LCL diagnosis). This was her first time ever examining Willy. She showed me the redness along his gumline. And I mentioned a bit more drool production lately. She said she would need to clean his teeth and do a dental procedure in order to determine if something is wrong. But once cancer was on the table, all the dental stuff took a back seat (she did not even discuss performing a dental procedure, and moved right into the biopsy surgery first -- for obvious reasons).

He has no functional problems with his mouth/teeth. He eats (including crunching on kibble) with no problem. But I am worried about this.

My current vet prioritizes the LCL over everything else (obviously) and I'm sure didn't even suggest a dental procedure because he hadn't been seen by an oncologist yet at the time, and there was no prognosis yet. And obviously, I prioritize the LCL over everything else, myself. He's responding well to chemo (see above thread), but in whatever time he has left, I don't know realistically what would be the best way to deal with dental disease.

Do I ignore it and just focus on keeping him living, so long as his mouth doesn't cause any problems?

Or do I talk to my vet about the possibility (and safety) of a dental procedure during this?

Or is a dental procedure even out of the question, just due to safety?

Or is it simply never going to be worth putting him through another traumatic procedure? (Statistics on cats who go into remission are still not very long lifespans, but the statistics also suck, in terms of sample size.)

Obviously these are all questions for both my vet and my oncologist. But I'm trying to formulate a long-term plan here. At first, I didn't know if Willy was going to respond to chemo. But he did, and has made extraordinary progress. So now I know I want to keep up the treatments.

Putting together finances for all of this is tough. I can't just pay for everything , so I am trying to plan out how best to approach all of this moving forward, and consider how much of a serious issue the dental disease could become as we go.

Any advice would be highly appreciated.

Edit: the dental disease diagnosis was very nonspecific. She showed me how he has redness along his gumline, but he's not bleeding, doesn't have cracked teeth, etc. I'm not totally sure what the blanket term "dental disease" means. But the one symptom I did inform her of seeing at home was the increased drool production.

The drool doesn't happen all the time. It's always when he's being affectionate and purring, which I know is a time when cats drool more, anyway. But it's more drool than it used to be. See thread I linked above for more details.

 

[tarasgirl06]

New question about something I never brought up yet:

WIlly also has a diagnosis of dental disease.

I'm a little annoyed about this one, although perhaps it's partially my fault due to being a first-time cat owner.

I've been going to the same vet for almost the entire time I've had Willy (since ~2013 when he was about 1 year old) and always liked her, but then she sold her practice (its a cat-only practice) a couple of years ago, then the new owner sold it to another new owner shortly after that. The current vet I like a lot.

Over the years, every time I'd bring Willy in for an annual wellness exam, my vet would look at his teeth, comment on the level of tartar, etc., and said she would tell me whenever it would be time to do a teeth cleaning.

Willy had good teeth for a long time, and it wasn't deemed necessary. I figured it would be a thing that was going to come up at some point, and I should just wait until my vet tells me to do it.

The old vet never did before she sold her practice, but she also never felt it necessary to diagnose Willy with dental disease. I know this because I have his full medical file now, which I obtained since he got lymphoma.

Apparently, in early 2022, he was diagnosed with gingivitis. I honestly had no idea. I now know because I see it in his chart. But I went from then until now without realizing that fact. And the diagnosis was made by the "interim" vet (the one between my old vet and the new vet I have now).

There's a chance I didn't listen well enough, and I also now know the importance of always having your pet's current medical records. Like I said, this is my first cat, and I've learned many things over the years that I haven't been doing right.

My new, current vet diagnosed him with dental disease during the most recent exam (same exam that led to his biopsy and LCL diagnosis). This was her first time ever examining Willy. She showed me the redness along his gumline. And I mentioned a bit more drool production lately. She said she would need to clean his teeth and do a dental procedure in order to determine if something is wrong. But once cancer was on the table, all the dental stuff took a back seat (she did not even discuss performing a dental procedure, and moved right into the biopsy surgery first -- for obvious reasons).

He has no functional problems with his mouth/teeth. He eats (including crunching on kibble) with no problem. But I am worried about this.

My current vet prioritizes the LCL over everything else (obviously) and I'm sure didn't even suggest a dental procedure because he hadn't been seen by an oncologist yet at the time, and there was no prognosis yet. And obviously, I prioritize the LCL over everything else, myself. He's responding well to chemo (see above thread), but in whatever time he has left, I don't know realistically what would be the best way to deal with dental disease.

Do I ignore it and just focus on keeping him living, so long as his mouth doesn't cause any problems?

Or do I talk to my vet about the possibility (and safety) of a dental procedure during this?

Or is a dental procedure even out of the question, just due to safety?

Or is it simply never going to be worth putting him through another traumatic procedure? (Statistics on cats who go into remission are still not very long lifespans, but the statistics also suck, in terms of sample size.)

Obviously these are all questions for both my vet and my oncologist. But I'm trying to formulate a long-term plan here. At first, I didn't know if Willy was going to respond to chemo. But he did, and has made extraordinary progress. So now I know I want to keep up the treatments.

Putting together finances for all of this is tough. I can't just pay for everything , so I am trying to plan out how best to approach all of this moving forward, and consider how much of a serious issue the dental disease could become as we go.

Any advice would be highly appreciated.

Edit: the dental disease diagnosis was very nonspecific. She showed me how he has redness along his gumline, but he's not bleeding, doesn't have cracked teeth, etc. I'm not totally sure what the blanket term "dental disease" means. But the one symptom I did inform her of seeing at home was the increased drool production.

The drool doesn't happen all the time. It's always when he's being affectionate and purring, which I know is a time when cats drool more, anyway. But it's more drool than it used to be. See thread I linked above for more details.

Definitely start with the vet, especially since you like and trust her.
Just FYI, cats can and do eat well (including dry food!) with NO teeth. So I'd get an evaluation from the vet first and then go with that, and your intuition. Health and wellbeing first, but finanacial, unfortunately, always factors in. You could also ask if they would work with you on payment plans/discounts for being a good patient/client/customer, etc. Gingivitis is the medical term for inflammation of the gums (gingiva) which can be painful and which can progress to periodontal disease. But that said, cats can do very well with no teeth at all. He looks VERY well in the "after" pic! That's quite a dramatic reduction.
I have insomnia, too, and Elvis is like Willy was in the past. Doesn't matter. He can come in, jump on me, claw the covers to get inside, fidget around, leave and come back, as much as he wants. Whenever he wants to be with me, he is more than welcome.

 

[tarasgirl06]

Odd how that works. My old man used to "talk" all the time. He had an opinion on everything. These two aren't vocal at all. I'm beginning to suspect they are gremlins in cat suits.
View attachment 463355

*Love this pic!* *Yeah, they do look suspiciously like gremlins in disguise.*

 

[iPappy]

I can't get over the change in the photos. I'm floored by it and am so happy he's responding so well!!!!

On the dental thing: this has just been my personal experience with my dogs, cats, and 26 years of client dogs and cats. But I have noticed, especially recently as I'm paying closer attention, that pets with cancer often go from having great teeth to very poor dental health. in a short amount of time. Two of my dogs (ages 8 and 13) had good teeth their whole lives, never needing a professional cleaning, and suddenly their dental health went to crap (tartar , gum disease , loose teeth etc.). Both dogs had cancer. I've seen very similar things in my clients, and sometimes skin and coat are negatively affected too.
My uneducated theory is that their bodies are fighting something bigger, and other "less life threatening" things and processes get pushed to the back burner. (As I said, not scientific and I'm not able to prove anything nor am I trying, but it's something I've noticed as a potential pattern.)

I would not hesitate to ask your vet what they suggest. They should be able to help you know what to do and when.