Will cat marking shelter keep other ferals away?

[buffy2011]

Hello, 

                         I think I have two cats outside, maybe feral or not, not sure. I have a nice shelter set up for them, out of the wind, rain, and snow. Its not real real warm but didn't know I was going to be feeding cats this winter or I would of made one with straw. Anyhow I see where one comes and goes from the snow prints. I have to lift everything up (blankets, plastic,) to get to the food everyday. I have dry out everyday but the soft food was getting hard and they couldn't eat it. Its definitely eaten everyday now since I bought warming bowls. My question is, I noticed it smells like urine just about everyday. So is the other cat not coming now because this one is marking the territory? It didn't seem to mark the spot when I only had dry out but now that there is soft food out I really noticed the urine.  I noticed they were coming at different times before. I only have one shelter, so I'm thinking they won't stay there to keep warm either if they don't like each other.  I have the feeding space and the shelter in the same spot, so was that a mistake?  I'm just really hoping the other one belonged to someone and they had the sense to keep it in  this weather.  Also like I said it is a nice spot out of the weather so why wouldn't it stay there? I've seen it leaving in the frigid cold. Where do they go? The other one is calico and I noticed it sitting in my yard and didn't run when it saw us, so I am thinking it does belong to someone. The black one seems to be wild. I had caught it in a trap by mistake trying to trap another one,(a kitten) for spaying. I had released it and down the road I will catch it again, to get it spayed. If its spayed will it spray urine around?  I am actually afraid of it, it was so mad when I caught it, and it is a big black cat. Well gotta run, hope someone has some info for me, I will appreciate it. 

 

[ritz]

Thank you for taking care of these cats, and kudos for building a shelter.
Yes, I think a cat spraying is marking his territory and telling other cats to stay away. I say "his" because male urine smells strong than female urine.
I would try trapping the cats using a humane trap. That will make the male cat spray less, probably, and the urine won't smell as strong.
I don't know if you know this, but calico cats are almost always female; so even in this cold weather, she could become pregnant. I was feeding a calico cat in January 2012 who I just knew was pregnant, could not trap her despite several attempts. Sure enough, three or four months later I started feeding her son. (Did finally trap her after the fact.)
If you have the room/space, I would move the food away from the shelter. The two (or more) cats may still not share the shelter, but I think separating the food from the shelter would increase the odds. I too have a shelter (first time in the four years I've been taking care of a colony) and it's been interesting to see who comes flying out of that shelter when I come to feed them. Sometimes it's Twiddledee and Tuxedo, sometimes it's Twiddledee and Twiddledum. Tdee and Tdum are presumed litter mates; I just assumed they would sleep together. So in part I think which ever cat gets to the shelter first, gets to stay there; in another part, I think it depends on how tolerant they are of one another. Three cats could squeeze into that shelter, but I've only seen evidence of two.
Let us know how it goes.

 

[buffy2011]

Really don't have a spot to separate the food from the shelter at this time. This all happened so fast. I had trapped a kitten and ended up catching this big black cat by mistake. So I let it out and that same day I caught the kitten. I was having it spayed the next day that's why I had to let one out and catch the other one. So then I had this black cat out there, that I was feeding and didn't know it. I just thought I was feeding this kitten. So real fast I put something together under my outdoor furniture. Not realizing how cold it started to get, I ended up crawling around outside trying to get something more warmer and somewhere to put the food out of the weather. The soft food kept freezing though, because I had no idea when they were coming, so they only had hard food.  With many layers, it keeps them out of the weather but not as warm as I would like it but like I said this was a spare of the moment thing. But like you said, you don't know what is going to come out of there. I kinda flip up the blankets and look before I stick my hand anywhere. I do have a few exits for them. Then I started seeing this calico. It seemed pretty tamed. Didn't go near it but it stayed right where it was when we were outside.  I haven't seen it for a long time. It kind of wasn't out that much when the weather was real cold.  But also maybe because this black cat is spraying. So maybe it does belong to someone. Believe me I hope so.  But before this all happened I had three eating and didn't know it till I saw different ones coming and going once in a while. The kitten and these other two. This kitten came from a litter of four that some how ended up in my yard, (again). I trapped two black kittens and got them a place. Then there were two others. I saw them and then they were gone. Then about  two months  later one showed up. Don't know where it was. So I trapped it and go it spayed. Haven't seen the other one at all.  Long story short, I will ask some question on this at a later date, but it was still to cold to put this kitten out so it is  held up in my bathroom at this time. It was about 7 months when I finally got it. Going on 10 now. 

 

[ondine]

Thank you for helping them all.  You are learning fast and are doing great.  You might want to sit down and make a plan.  It will help keep you from getting overwhelmed and also help plot out your next steps.

For instance, once the kitten goes back outside, he may need protection from the big black one.  (A good reason to get the big black one neutered ASAP).  Neutering is not that invasive and he can be released 24 hours after the surgery.  If you have a shed or a basement, you can keep him in the trap overnight.  Put a pee pad under it and cover it with thick towels or blankets and he will be warm enough.

You will need a few more days to recuperate females.  If the calico comes back, she may very well bring kittens, so you may start thinking about how to deal with them.  If she doesn't, alleluia!  But if she does, you'll have your plan ready!

 

[buffy2011]

Wouldn't you know I saw the calico tonight. Not even sure if you call this a calico. This cat is all black but half of its face is black and half is beige. Under its neck it is white and has a stub for a tail. Really weird but pretty cat.   I'm thinking someone is letting it outside for a while at night. So maybe it isn't a female.  Who knows though. This summer I am going to start asking around who has cats. I don't want to be in the middle of some problems with getting someone else's cats eat clipped as a feral cat. But I really have had enough of the kittens in my yard over the last few years. I've gotten them all homes except for this last one. I did call someone about it and I was told if we catch it, it will be put down. I couldn't do that, so that is why I got it spayed and kept it in my house. The black cat will be getting done when the weather breaks. The women at the clinic wants to get alot of the feral cats done that people have bigger problems with first. Mine isn't a big issue, plus I don't want to let it out in the winter right after a surgery, so I would rather wait till the weather breaks.  I didn't even know I had these two other ones out there. I thought I was only feeding this kitten and then to find out I'm feeding three.  I'm thinking if this black cat sprays, that it doesn't belong to someone or it would be marking up there house, wouldn't you think?   You said something about getting it neutered before I let the kitten out. Is that because it will fight or are there other reasons? I know they knew each others smell back then because they both came to eat, but that's been a while.  But since the kitten is so use to being warm and always having food I keep thinking that the longer I keep it inside that it won't know how to keep itself alive or find food or shelter outside. It will be in its own surroundings but does it remember? But right now the weather is still so cold, so I don't want to let it go. Do you think letting it out after many months is a bad thing?   I did plan on keeping it if I could get it tame. So far it is doing good for 2 1/2 months of me working with it. It was 7 months when I caught it.   It comes out when I call it, it plays out in the open, it eats about 12 inches from me. We do some routine things that it has remembered.  I can't touch it or pet it yet.  So until I can pick it up I will not let it roam the rest of my house. My one cat goes in the room with me and they are familiar with each others smell, but the kitten wants to play and it does weird things and my cat isn't sure yet about it. My cat hisses and growls at it and it backs down. But they sniff each other and I think they are doing good. I still have another cat that I am worried about it getting along with. Neither one of my cats have claws when I got them, and I'm nervous about this one having claws, how will they get along. This kitten already scratched me when I was trying to give it treats from my hand. I know it didn't mean to do it, but I have to get it to know how to control the claws. I don't want it scratching up my two other cats if I keep it. Is there anything about the claws,(other then it being a kitten yet) that will help me out. Does a cat have better control of its claws once it gets older?  I do have a scratching pole for it and it does us it often, so I'm thinking it will maybe, hopefully use that instead of my furniture when it gets to come out. 

 

[ondine]

When cats are relocated, it is the standard to keep them confined in the new place for two or more weeks.  That way, they can't try to go back to the old home while getting used to their new territory.  You've already kept the kitten long enough for it to recognize your home as its new territory, so putting it back outside now would probably only confuse it.  It will either try to keep coming back inside or will find new territory, especially if the black cat or the calico has established itself in your yard.

Best bet would be to accept the kitten for its unique quirks and keep it inside.  As he grows older, he will most likely begin to socialize better.  He may never be a lap cat but there are probably a lot fewer lap cats than people imagine.

Deal with the black cat and the calico separately - spaying or neutering as is needed.  If they've adopted your yard as their territory, they will most likely keep other cats out, so that's a bonus.

I am of the opinion that if a cat comes into my yard and is not fixed, I do the job.  I also get the cat shots.  If someone is irresponsible enough to let their unfixed cat wander around outside, they most likely have not had shots, either.  I am helping the cat and keeping the cat population (at least in my neighborhood) under control.

I've only fixed one pet and the people who had him never noticed - before they moved away and left him behind!  I finally found him another, better home.

 

[buffy2011]

My attention were to really keep the kitten. But it depends on what she really wants to do. If she doesn't want to socialize and be friendly with my other two cats, then I am going to have to let her go. But if she trys to come back inside then that means she really wants to stay, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it. It will get more time to figure out what it wants to do. It still to cold outside to even think about it. I'm an animal lover so it will be so hard to have to put her outside anyhow. I go threw alot for animals, the one's I have and also the ones I find outside. It gets to the point they take over my life. I find myself not sleeping at night worried if an animal has food, shelter, and whatever else it needs. Then there are other people who don't give a hoot if there animal has food.  If the weather wasn't so bad when I had the kitten spayed then this problem would of been easier.  She would of been outside already with no problem, because she was wild.  I can't keep every cat that I see, so its so hard to look out my window and see an animal in my yard. I ask myself "Why my yard, pick someone else's". The black one does need neutered but I am waiting till warmer weather. I'm a little afraid of this one anyhow. Its big and mean. It was so mad the day I caught it in the trap. You were saying if a cat comes in the yard and not fixed you do the job. I think a person is going to notice that there cats ear is clipped. I was told to do this so that when I see a cat I already know (if I can get close enough) that this one has already been fixed. Most of the cats I caught were kittens. I couldn't catch the mother of one litter of kittens, she left after we got the kittens. Then this last litter I got three out of four and have no idea who the mother is. One of that litter is the one I have.   Like I said I didn't realize I was feeding three cats at first. When I caught the kitten I stopped putting food out. The women at the clinic said I should still put food out for the black one this winter since I know it was coming to eat. Then I found out I had this calico coming too. But today I now have the neighbors dog getting into where the food it. I just saw him today. Something pulled the bowl out once and I didn't  know what, but today the bowl was out and the dog was there.  So he knows its there since he came back the second time, so I'm hoping its not going to be a habit.  I'm sure there is not much left to eat. Lucky it can't get that far back in there to eat all the dry food. I wasn't real happy about this when I saw it because I bought  warming bowls for the cat food and water, and this dog could pull the plugs out.  But for the food I put a plastic bowl inside the warmer so its easier to clean, and this dog took the bowl out of the bowl. Very slick.  So today I tried to block it with a chair, so we will see how this goes. Tell me if I am right. Cats claim there territory because someone is feeding them! Is it OK to stop feeding them in the summer? I feed the birds, the deer, now these cats. And also I have raccoon's, opossums and who knows what else is coming because of this food outside. 

 

[catwoman707]

I don't have time right now to really read this thread thoroughly, but the black cat with the beige on it's face is a female tortie.

Calicos and Torties are girls FYI..

YES! The urine spray marking will keep others away.

Trapping a cat, releasing it and planning to attempt to re-trap is never a good idea, once a cat gets trapped, it is nearly impossible to ever re-trap again, as they are considered "trap-savvy", and it will take a drop trap to be able to get the same cat again.

 

[ondine]

One thing you should do is to feed the cats at specified times.  They will soon learn dinner is served between 5 and 6 pm, for example.  Don't leave the food out overnight.  That not only attracts other critters (like dogs, raccoons, possums) but will also attract other cats.

Take a step back from all this and decide what you can do without jeopardizing your sanity.  You talk about wanting to help animals.  We all do.  But most of us have accepted that we can't help them all.  We have to draw the line somewhere.  Think hard about where your line is.  If it is three cats and the two your have inside, then that's what you help.

BTW - I did not have cats eartipped when I fixed them because I usually found inside homes for them.

 

[buffy2011]

Hard to figure out a time when to feed because both of these cats come at night.  From what I can figure out, one comes around 7:00 PM and the other one comes around 11:00 PM. So as long as we don't have any real problems I'm just going to continue what I am doing.  I did find homes for all the cats so none had the ear tipping except the kitten  I have inside my house. I called about this kitten and I was told if they come and get it, it will be put down. So I decided to get it spayed and then release it.  And my intentions were to let it go, but the weather was real bad, and I didn't have the heart to put it out in the snow.  I had no way of keeping the food soft and the water kept freezing. There was hard food out, but I read that they need soft food for the winter.  None of the cats got any soft food because every morning it was frozen. So when I got the kitten spayed  I kept it  inside and decided to maybe keep it. We will see. But in the mean time I found, (which was a hard thing to find) heated bowls. So now I am happy and I know the two cats outside are too. I feel better that they have a nice meal everyday. Then when the weather breaks I will talk about the spay or neutering for those two. 

 

[buffy2011]

Your right that is a tortoise cat, I never gave that a thought. It is so weird looking but yet so pretty. I still think that cat belongs to someone, but we will see. Yes I know letting that black cat out after catching it once might be a problem. But I didn't expect to catch it because I thought I was only feeding one kitten, but found out different. But it is going on 3 months since I caught the kitten and the black cat is still coming to eat right where I caught it, so it doesn't seem to afraid. Actually one night  it had a little bit of a scuffle with a deer. I guess the cat was leaving when the deer were coming and they meet. I happen to look out the window and saw a deer stomping its feet, and looking at my patio door. I opened my door to look out on the patio and the black cat was up against the patio door. Then a few seconds later the deer were walking down the yard and I looked out again and they were kinda running the black cat down the driveway. Maybe they thought the cat was interfering with there food. But it still comes back, so hopefully I have no trouble getting it when the time comes, other than I am afraid of it. When I caught it, it was so mad and I didn't realize how big it was, so its full grown.  I didn't have any problems with it when I let it out of the cage, so that was a good sign. 

 

[buffy2011]

Thank you for taking care of these cats, and kudos for building a shelter.
Yes, I think a cat spraying is marking his territory and telling other cats to stay away. I say "his" because male urine smells strong than female urine.
I would try trapping the cats using a humane trap. That will make the male cat spray less, probably, and the urine won't smell as strong.
I don't know if you know this, but calico cats are almost always female; so even in this cold weather, she could become pregnant. I was feeding a calico cat in January 2012 who I just knew was pregnant, could not trap her despite several attempts. Sure enough, three or four months later I started feeding her son. (Did finally trap her after the fact.)
If you have the room/space, I would move the food away from the shelter. The two (or more) cats may still not share the shelter, but I think separating the food from the shelter would increase the odds. I too have a shelter (first time in the four years I've been taking care of a colony) and it's been interesting to see who comes flying out of that shelter when I come to feed them. Sometimes it's Twiddledee and Tuxedo, sometimes it's Twiddledee and Twiddledum. Tdee and Tdum are presumed litter mates; I just assumed they would sleep together. So in part I think which ever cat gets to the shelter first, gets to stay there; in another part, I think it depends on how tolerant they are of one another. Three cats could squeeze into that shelter, but I've only seen evidence of two.
Let us know how it goes.

Sorry this took so long for an update but I'm having a hard time figuring out this sight. Well both cats seemed to be coming to eat along with some raccoon. Anyhow I had moved the food up to higher grounds and I saw that the one cat didn't know where the food was. As I saw her walk away I noticed she was pregnant. I did put some food down on the ground since it was daylight and she did come back to eat. In the mean time I made an appointment to get her spayed. Got her spayed and was going to keep her for about 5-7 days. On the second day she got out of the cage she was in and ended up living somewhere in this room I had her. She ate and used the litter fine so I had no problem with it. Finally on the 7th day I found out where she was and ended up getting her to go outside.  I haven't seen her since and I really feel bad. Wonder why she wouldn't come back? She knew where she ate and the shelter was. I couldn't let her go where I had caught her because she had gotten out of her cage. But she went out my garage and she was very familiar with the area. She went up threw the yard like she always did. Its been two weeks now and she hasn't come to eat. I have a camera up so I would know if she was here. Do you think she will come back?