Will A Momma Cat And 5 Kittens Be Okay In An Extra Large Dog Crate? And For How Long?

moxiewild

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A family friend just found 5 kittens under her new home. I've attached a photo, but they look to be less than 1 week old from the one kitten I could get a good look at.

The Queen is still around and caring for the litter, so we of course intend to trap her too, and then keep her with the kittens for as long as possible.

Unfortunately, we are pretty overloaded with cats at our house right now in every single respect, and don't have a room available to foster these guys.

The bathrooms and laundry room we have would be marginally bigger than the amount of space they'd have with a crate. Additionally, those areas would be a lot louder, we'd be battling cool tile floors, and it would honestly be more inconvenient for us to keep them there, so we'd like to avoid it if possible (but if we have to, we obviously will).

Our TNR/feral crates are about 30" x 48". They come with a removable divider that we place horizontally to make a shelf to add a little extra square footage (see photos of some of our set ups attached). This would also allow Momma cat to have some space and alone time away from the litter when needed.

From a brief glance, I see Midwest has a slightly larger crate at about 37" x 54" that we can spring for too if necessary.

My specific questions are as follows:

- Should we opt for buying the larger crate?

- Would either crate be an acceptable amount of space to keep an adult cat and 5 neonatal kittens in for the time being?

- And if so, for how long? At what age would the kittens be likely to "age out" in terms of that amount of space being sufficient? I just need an educated guess on that, as my experience with kittens is minimal.

I really want to trap all of these guys by tomorrow or Wednesday. Currently, the plan is to trap them, find a shelter that will take them, and continue fostering until we or the shelter can find someone else to foster them.

So I am hoping the crate situation can work for at least a couple of weeks.

Thanks everyone!

Kittens -

IMG_2073.JPG


A couple variations of our usual crate set ups -

HoboHoldingCage.jpg


Sockscrate.jpg
 

rubysmama

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moxiewild

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rubysmama rubysmama -

Thank you! I believe I came across that post when I took in a Mom and her one kitten a few months ago. :)

The crate worked VERY well for them, but that was just one kitten, not five, so I wasn't as concerned about overcrowding.

Furballsmom Furballsmom -

Thank you! I've been looking at charts too and trying to envision what five kittens + Mom would look like, but it's difficult to get a good idea of it.

We kept a feral momma and her sole 4-6 week kitten in one of our crates recently and it was perfectly fine, but I really can't imagine doing that with 5 kittens once they're about that age.

I'm really hoping we won't have to keep them that long, but I at least want to make sure the space will be sufficient for the neonatal stage. I'm playing tetris with the crate right now to assess ways I can better optimize the space.

I wish I knew whether Mom was feral or stray, or if she was friendly. I usually keep the carrier inside the crate so that I can close ferals in it while I clean the crate and scoop the box, and for easy transport. If she's friendly enough, being able to take the carrier out would really help open up the space.
 
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moxiewild

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I know how to tell a feral from a stray, however, I feel like sometimes the combination of pregnancy hormones and maternal instincts can blur the lines a bit, if that makes sense.

According to my mom, Momma cat bolted out from under the house when my mom peered under there. So... could be feral, could be a timid stray, could have just had the bejeezus scared out of her.

By the time I got there, she didn't look particularly feral when assessing her body language. She was keeping a distance and keeping an eye on us, but didn't appear terrified. She was just observing.

I also only saw her very briefly. I didn't want to provoke her too much and increase the risk of her moving the kittens, so I herded everyone away pretty quickly once I realized Mom was not going to come to me at that moment and was - at the least - not a super obvious, friendly stray.

I can see it being either way at this point, honestly :dunno:
 

Jcatbird

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The crate is fine. I have raised several rescue litters in one the same size. Having a carrier inside works great. It becomes a safe haven to the kitties and helps you to manage things. You can also use a piece or cardboard to help block them if needed. When the kittens here reached a certain age I ( my crate had two doors which helps) would take the kittens and put them in a separate play pen area to give Mom a break and give them a place to run. Once Mom was not scared of me, she got break times in another crate. I did have one litter of the most active kittens I have ever seen. Part Maine Coon , they drove their Mom a bit nuts. Lol I put two crates together when they reached four weeks. Mom loved it and so did the babies. A second carrier was in the second crate. It was a larger carrier since I didn’t have to put water, food and litter in both. Mom retreated to the carrier top to take naps without the babies climbing all over her.
You should be fine. If you have the kittes longer the babies should be totally tame and can be moved wherever you need them to be for extra space. I kept these in the crates as needed until 7 weeks. Mom may be social by that time too so space may be easier to work out. Watching you interact with the babies will build her trust and confidence in you.
Look like you are all set to me!
Great job getting ready. I hope you’ll keep us posted. The babies are precious! Thank you for helping them.
 
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moxiewild

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Jcatbird Jcatbird Yes, that's what we do with the carrier inside the crate. I use a yard stick (what we ominously refer to as the "feral stick" :lol:) to pass through the bars to close kitty in the carrier before opening the crate.

It seems to make them feel safer while I'm cleaning up in there, and I have peace of mind not having to worry about the small chance of an attack or escape. It's also extremely helpful when I need to get them OUT of the dog crate to go to the vet or for release.

When you were using the double crate method, how were you attaching the crates together? This is an idea I've always played with, but I can never figure out how to get the crate doors flush up against each other. There's always a huge gap, but maybe other crate doors open all the way.
 
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moxiewild

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Update: We haven't trapped anyone yet, unfortunately. My kidney cat had some issues this week and we have a new cat whose been coming around and fighting with two of ours that we've desperately been trying to trap this week.

I also have another post going on right now about one of our ferals we realized was very, very sick last night, so now we need to prioritize trapping him. But that's going to further delay the kittens...

Anyway... I called some no kills and haven't found anyone willing to take the kittens/Mom in yet. But I still have dozens and dozens more potential shelters I need to contact.

Our county shelter said they would do it. They are not no kill... but they are extremely active with adoption efforts. They even have a very nice adoption van that they take all over town quite frequently. Their survival rate was 98%-99% the last I checked.

I also have a good relationship with them, as the employees are very pro-feral/TNR. I trust them.

But I'm leaving that as a last resort for obvious reasons right now.


I feel awful about it. There is just so much going on. I am having so much trouble keeping track of all of these cats right now.

The kittens are in a fairly safe area and still can't move around much. Mom appears to be taking care of all of them.

Do you think they will be relatively safe in the meantime?

They're not off a busy street, no particular wildlife issue in the area. They're under the house, so there's shelter and shade (south Texas, so it's still unbearably hot). Not entirely sure if flooding would be a potential issue, but we're in a drought right now, so little chance of rain anyway.

The only other concern is that my friend casually mentioned there are a lot of cats around. She assumes at least most of them are homeless (we'll be helping to TNR those cats as soon as all of ours are taken care of).

I just feel awful for having to delay getting them :( But my cats have to come first.
 

fionasmom

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I had a litter of 4 kittens with the mom under my neighbor's house last summer. Evidently they were born there and thankfully the neighbor did not want to hurt them or even move them, she just wanted them to leave eventually, which was understandable. They lived safely under the house until they were about 8 weeks old....it was a little bit of a feral cat mess here last year and I had to trap a couple others first. In fact, I would say that under the house was as good an area as they could have found as LA can get hot as well. The only thing that happened is that ( I believe) the mom would take them out onto the front lawn of my neighbor's house at night and a coyote got one of them. She moved the entire litter for one day which amounted to a massive neighborhood shakedown, but because I was their food source she returned them all the next day. There are a number of coyotes here, and last summer there was one particularly "successful" one, no longer living, but they all made it.
 

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Hey! I attached the two by folding the doors back as far as possible and then covering the gaps with several layers of cardboard cut to fit. I fastened the cardboard by punching holes to put electrical tie wraps through and in areas no cat could touch, using gorilla tape. I made sure no sticky parts were left exposed any where. All sticky was covered by more tape or board. They eventually tried to get the cardboard out at the top but I placed a carrier over it so.... they figured out they could not push their way out.
As for kittens and mom under that house, just make sure you get them before Mom or babies come into heat. It’s hard when you are trying to work with numbers of kitties. I tried to get females and babies first to stop the reproducing and because babies usually get adopted/ socialized more quickly. I applaud all you are doing. Stopping the growth of a population will prevent lots of other issues that could arise later. :clap::salam::clap2: :cheerleader::goldstar::rock:
 

fionasmom

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Yes, you need to get the family before they reproduce. I was working with three traps last summer and at one point all the traps were at the vet's office and in use.
 
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moxiewild

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Update: Some very good news and potentially some bad!

I hit up contacts really hard this week in order to make my goals, which was to trap them before the kittens could move around a lot on their own, while they were still in their prime socialization window, and before the queen could mate/deliver again.

I was especially mindful of that last one, as we took in a mom and her 4 week old kitten in May - it wasn’t until June that Momma would come out of the crate in front of me and the moment she did I was like “Ohhhhhhhh..... nooooooo”. Took her to the vet and they confirmed it - pregnant, with seven kits, and due ANY DAY.

So i was acutely aware of the risk this time and how quickly they can become pregnant again!

Long story short, I pulled some strings at work. We have a partnership with a feral rescue here. I had already contacted them, but their emergency line and email is answered by volunteers. So my boss gave me the email address of the president.

My friends house is in a different city (the same one the rescue is located in/serves), so even getting the time to go out there and trap was becoming an issue - we are about to leave town for a week in about 10 days so I am very desperate to trap the aggressive interloper and our sick feral before we go, which really limits my time.

The response from the president indicated that they are willing to send someone from their trapper team to TNR all of the cats!!! I would pay for it, but they would do all the work.

I know they have a foster program, but it wasn’t mentioned whether they have open intake. I imagine they’ll have to foster though, at least for the kittens since they’re only about 3 weeks old right now and aren’t old/heavy enough for neuter yet.

The bad news is, my friend hadn’t seen the kittens on Thursday or yesterday when she was visiting the house (she hasn’t moved in yet because she’s doing renovations and waiting until a bulk of the reno is done).

However, while she doesn’t mind the cats, she also ignores them. So I’m not sure if she actually looked under the house for them or not.

She did see the queen walking about on both days though.

I don’t think any extensive reno has been done lately that would prompt Mom to move the kittens, but who knows.

I am also wondering if perhaps the neighbor who is feeding her food found the kittens and possibly took them. This family friend is not socially inclined whatsoever, nor is she concerned enough about the kittens (not a cat or rescue type person, and I’m fairly confident she has the attitude that cats are perfectly fine on their own outdoors unfortunately), so I can't convince her to actually go talk to the neighbor about this. I am hoping maybe the rescue will if needed.

Trying not to worry about it too much. I would be devastated if we finally found a rescue to help but could no longer actually find the kittens :(
 
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moxiewild

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Immediate second update!

About ten seconds after posting I received some texts from my mom (this family friend is her best friend). It was a picture of two kittens around 3 weeks old!!!

Someone posted to my friend's Nextdoor and said they found them crossing the street. They are the same color as some of the kittens from the original picture, and the same color as the queen, but they were found the next neighborhood over.

Like I said, the queen has still been frequently spotted hanging around my friends house quite a bit as usual. I can't imagine she'd move her kittens so far away, would she?

The neighbor said they are able and willing to eat soft food. I told my friend to comment on the post and mention picking up some KMR at the grocery or pet store to give them. The person who posted is apparently receiving a lot of support and advice in the comments.

I'm not entirely sure what to do with this information... I guess it depends on how likely these two kittens are from the litter we were after? Any ideas?
 

rubysmama

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About ten seconds after posting I received some texts from my mom (this family friend is her best friend). It was a picture of two kittens around 3 weeks old!!!
That's a relief.

I guess it depends on how likely these two kittens are from the litter we were after? Any ideas?

But is is possible they're different kittens?​
 
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