When Cats Groom Each Other, Why Does It Always End In A Fight? We Don't Act This Way At the Hairdre

[ginny]

I can't figure out why my kitties do this and wondered, it it just mine or everybody else's too?  Sammy used to groom Garfy, until he was all done (which could have been one minute or 5 depending on how Sammy felt that day), then poor Garfy, all relaxed and everything, got a quick bite to the neck from his brother.  Okay you're done, now GET OUT!!  Time after time after time.  It seems little Garf never learned to say "no, thank you!" when Sammy wanted to fix his fur.  

But literally 2 seconds before the bite, Sammy was all attentive and taking care of Garfy.  Makes me wonder what is going on in their minds!

I've noticed the kitties I have now do this too.  Certain ones groom certain others.  Oreo grooms Ned, until he doesn't want to anymore and the tussle begins.  Why?  

Are they that particular about their fur?  Is there resentment that the grooming isn't mutual?  What?

(I started this because I needed a little bit of brevity in my life right now.  Some major ongoing existential questions  that have been going on for years now, also some really minor ones like why does laundry - like dishes - never end?  This has not been a good week.)

 

[cat nap]

Forgive me @Ginny if I misread your post...because when I first read the title of the thread...I could not stop laughing.

  I pictured a bunch of people, ...getting into all sorts of fights at the hairdressers,...because the hairstyles all went wrong.

  I guess this 'bad hairdresser scene' would not be really fun, in reality, so I hope that it actually doesn't ever happen. 

I also thought that 'brevity' meant being 'short and to the point'...which sadly, I have never had a skill for...but if you meant 'a little levity'...than yes, I'm all for that.  I think it's always helpful to see the 'light hearted side of things'...but sometimes it's so difficult to do.  Especially if the cats are really fighting. 

I don't really know the answer as to why they do the 'fur grooming tussle.'  

But no, it's not just your cats that do the 'love bites' after the grooming of the head, neck or face is done.  I call it love bites, because it doesn't seem to be done maliciously, and seems more of a 'holding on to the other cat', or maybe a dominance or over-stimulation instinct.  Whatever it is, it does not draw blood, so I'm okay with it.  Although, you're right, they never seem to want to groom each other in a mutual timing sort of way.

Maybe their mom-cat did this when they were younger, and she had to 'bite their necks'...to get them to go away...or she would never have finished her other chores...(like hunting(eating), cleaning herself (grooming), and exercising/sleeping).

I really like the names of your fur gang...Sammy, Garfy, Oreo and Ned.  And I totally agree with you that laundry and dishes NEVER seem to end...it's like they multiply if I'm not looking.

I hope that your week gets better, or at least ends on a 'non tussling of the fur day'.

 

 

 

[ginny]

 
Forgive me @Ginny if I misread your post...because when I first read the title of the thread...I could not stop laughing.

  I pictured a bunch of people, ...getting into all sorts of fights at the hairdressers,...because the hairstyles all went wrong.

  I guess this 'bad hairdresser scene' would not be really fun, in reality, so I hope that it actually doesn't ever happen. 

I also thought that 'brevity' meant being 'short and to the point'...which sadly, I have never had a skill for...but if you meant 'a little levity'...than yes, I'm all for that.  I think it's always helpful to see the 'light hearted side of things'...but sometimes it's so difficult to do.  Especially if the cats are really fighting. 

I don't really know the answer as to why they do the 'fur grooming tussle.'  

But no, it's not just your cats that do the 'love bites' after the grooming of the head, neck or face is done.  I call it love bites, because it doesn't seem to be done maliciously, and seems more of a 'holding on to the other cat', or maybe a dominance or over-stimulation instinct.  Whatever it is, it does not draw blood, so I'm okay with it.  Although, you're right, they never seem to want to groom each other in a mutual timing sort of way.

Maybe their mom-cat did this when they were younger, and she had to 'bite their necks'...to get them to go away...or she would never have finished her other chores...(like hunting(eating), cleaning herself (grooming), and exercising/sleeping).

I really like the names of your fur gang...Sammy, Garfy, Oreo and Ned.  And I totally agree with you that laundry and dishes NEVER seem to end...it's like they multiply if I'm not looking.

I hope that your week gets better, or at least ends on a 'non tussling of the fur day'.

 

 

I'm so glad the title made you laugh.  It did me too.  No, it wouldn't pan out very well in real life, LOL, but I'd love to see a farce of people acting out weird kitty behaviors, that way no one gets hurt.  Mine don't bring blood but they do let each other know in that unmistakeable way when the grooming session has come to an abrupt halt!  LOL.  

You are so right that I used the wrong word.  I did mean levity.  I will edit it.  Thanks for pointing that out.  At least the word I meant to use rhymed so not all was lost.  I'm not good at brevity either.

Good point about this being a learned behavior.  That makes sense.  Proof that cats are not people for sure.  

Life is hard.  What can I say?  But it's good to laugh.  Thanks for the well wishes.  

How are your kitties doing today?

 

[Draco]

My cats do the same thing. Cassie goes to groom Monet. he tolerates it for a few moments, purrs and curls of toes.. then next thing I know, he lashes out at her.

I guess they're overstimulating each other.. the same way we'd pet the cats past their tolerance level?

 

[sparkymema]

Both of my kittens aren't spayed yet and big boy likes to lick their privates to much so the little kitties will push him off and then he bites em. He also does what you described as well, kind of funny. 

 

[ginny]

@Draco and Sparkymema,

Well I'm glad to know it's not just my kitties.  Every time I see one grooming the other, I say "oh no, here we go!"  It starts out all serene and lovey-dovey, and ends up with tails whipping or fur flying.  Both of them mad at each other for about 2 seconds.  Thank goodness they don't have long memories.  

 

[cat nap]

 
I'm so glad the title made you laugh.  It did me too.  No, it wouldn't pan out very well in real life, LOL, but I'd love to see a farce of people acting out weird kitty behaviors, that way no one gets hurt.  Mine don't bring blood but they do let each other know in that unmistakeable way when the grooming session has come to an abrupt halt!  LOL.  

You are so right that I used the wrong word.  I did mean levity.  I will edit it.  Thanks for pointing that out.  At least the word I meant to use rhymed so not all was lost.  I'm not good at brevity either.

Good point about this being a learned behavior.  That makes sense.  Proof that cats are not people for sure.  

Life is hard.  What can I say?  But it's good to laugh.  Thanks for the well wishes.  

How are your kitties doing today?

Lol...I love learning new things everyday...I didn't know what 'farce of people' actually was...even though I had heard the word 'farce' before.  ("a light dramatic composition marked by broadly satirical comedy and improbable plot"...from online Merriam Webster dictionary.)

Yes, that 'humorous play' might be pretty good...especially if it includes your scenes of 'grooming sessions coming to unmistakeable and abrupt ends', and the setting is still the hairdressers. 

  

Oh, my, ...I would probably watch a whole t.v. series built around those plot ideas.  But I don't know @Ginny ...a person might get hurt in this 'Comedy of Cats'...because some of the things my cats do, like falling off couches, missing their jumps onto side tables, and running about wildly...knocking into each other, may cause some actors some damage.  But it's still a great idea.

I don't think you should edit any of the words in your original post.  I love both words...brevity and levity...and it is so cool, that they DO rhyme.  I have to learn to be brief.  I'm just happy that you did not come back and say..."cat nap...can you please just get to the point...my laundry dries faster than your answer...thanks".  I was worried there, for a bit.

My cats are doing well, sleeping, then eating, then playing...and doing it all over again...3 young 5 month old kittens plus a Senior cat  that seems to sleep a bit more, but I figure he deserves to do whatever he wants...he's almost 15 and a half.

It's really good to know that the other members, Draco and Sparkymema, also have cats that do the grooming annoyance thing.  I forgot that all cats have different tolerance levels for being groomed, and different amounts of time that they enjoy.  Pretty unique. 

Are your cats around the same age?  And do they also play fight a bit rough, too?

 

[muffy]

Muffin and Muffy do the same thing. They are mother and daughter and elderly cats. They just started grooming each other. Before now they could not stand each other.

 

[csts]

I think a cat social grooming can be a form of asserting dominance in addition to bonding and shows of affection. Sakura-chan likes to wash Charvone's head and face, and even holds him down. If he tries to move away, she nips him on the ear in an "Ohh no, I'm not done with you yet!" He'll tolerate this for hours, sometimes. Sometimes I wonder if he lets her groom him because he misses his mother Dolly (he was brought to the shelter with his mother and father due to previous family having become homeless, but both were adopted before him). I think the ear-nipping is dog behavior and she might have learned that from the dogs with her last family. She does not let him groom her for nearly as long as she washes him. Charvone also exchanges face-washings with my parents' cat Fry (they are both very mellow guys) when we visit, but Sakura does not let Fry groom her at all, though she touches noses with him and plays with him. Both cats get mad if one of them tries to wash each other's private parts. Charvone will just hiss at Sakura or run away, while Sakura responds with a hard and fast slap to Charvone's face . They were both neutered and spayed before I got them so I don't know why they try to do that.

Here are pictures of Sakura washing Charvone while holding him down:

(This one I posted before in another thread)

2015-09-16 12.53.06.jpg

• csts
• Sep 30, 2015

2015-09-16 12.52.56.jpg

• csts
• Oct 22, 2015

 

[sparkymema]

You should see how bad the runt of the litter gets it. The orange and black kitty I have will latch onto her neck like little vampires until she screams at first then start nibbling on her ears. 

 

[di and bob]

My two do the same thing, it's always 'Oh no, here goes the lick fest!' They always start out so sweet with mutual face and neck grooming, and then end up rolling around with fur flying. I try to stop them before then, a magazine thrown to the ground works well. If anyone could figure out how to stop the fighting at the end, I would love to know!

 

[fyllis]

My two boys do the same thing. 

One will be sleeping quietly, and the other will saunter over and start grooming him. Then they start grooming each other for a minute or two, then... They are off and running! 

My daughter was over one day and they did this in front of her. She just looked at them, then at me, and said, "Wow! I'm glad I'm an only child! LOL First they kiss and cuddle, then they knock the crap out of each other!".

I think that it's just their way of saying, Hey, wanna play?  Sometimes they will stop fighting and go grab a bite to eat and then start right in on each other again. I will say, I HAVE had to verbally reprimand them a time or two because they started getting a bit too rough. For the most part, I let them do their thing and just be boys!

Here is a video of one of their episodes of brotherly fighting after they just groomed each other. You can see that it's not a real fight by they way they pause and wait for the other one to get his swing in.

 

[ginny]

 
Are your cats around the same age?  And do they also play fight a bit rough, too?

They were all born in 2004.  Oreo is the youngest born about 6 or 8 weeks after the others.  Oreo is the alpha cat.  If you don't believe it, just ask him!  Well, one day he got into a fight out in the garage with Ned.  Ned almost cleaned his clock! Oreo came back in with a few drops of blood from his left ear.  There have been knock-down-drag-outs before with some of the others, but it's been a while. I believe I started using the Feliway after that which seemed to help calm them down.   

 

[ginny]

 
Muffin and Muffy do the same thing. They are mother and daughter and elderly cats. They just started grooming each other. Before now they could not stand each other.

What is it about mothers and daughters?  Honey used to stalk - or maybe just follow - her mama Gracie at times (I couldn't be sure which).  I'm not sure why she did this, but I know that Gracie was always very annoyed.  Other than that, they pretty much avoided each other.  I think the girls do tend to be aloof whereas boy kitties are more warm and sociable.  Nat and Oreo are buds.  I never saw Honey and Gracie groom each other.  It's funny how the alpha kitty seems to be the one to initiate the grooming.  Maybe because it gives them an excuse to start a fight?  Lol.    

 

[ginny]

2015-09-16 12.52.56.jpg

• csts
• Oct 22, 2015

LOL!  "Ohh no, I'm not done with you yet!"  So funny!  That's the exact opposite of a few licks then a bite!  I can't help but wonder what it'd be like at the hairdresser if this happened to us.  If it did, I don't think I'd pay!  Or at the very least I wouldn't tip.  Lol!

I think you hit the nail on the head - it is a way to assert dominance as well as to show affection.  I used to think it was overstimulation, but it's usually the licker that bites the lickee, not the other way around.  So funny.  It's like one is saying to the other "I love you so much NOW GET OUT!!"  And lovin' turns to fightin'.  

 

[ginny]

 
You should see how bad the runt of the litter gets it. The orange and black kitty I have will latch onto her neck like little vampires until she screams at first then start nibbling on her ears. 

Awww, poor lil kitty!

 

[ginny]

 
My two do the same thing, it's always 'Oh no, here goes the lick fest!' They always start out so sweet with mutual face and neck grooming, and then end up rolling around with fur flying. I try to stop them before then, a magazine thrown to the ground works well. If anyone could figure out how to stop the fighting at the end, I would love to know!

That's a good idea to drop a magazine!  I usually clap my hands and tell them to stop, if they get rough.  That doesn't work so well.  I've also tried to distract them with play, but at times they are hard to distract!

 

[ginny]

@Fyllis   I love what your daughter said!  Too funny!  Cute video and cute kitties!  And yes you can tell they are just playing.  

 

[cat nap]

 
Are your cats around the same age?  And do they also play fight a bit rough, too?

They were all born in 2004.  Oreo is the youngest born about 6 or 8 weeks after the others.  Oreo is the alpha cat.  If you don't believe it, just ask him!  Well, one day he got into a fight out in the garage with Ned.  Ned almost cleaned his clock! Oreo came back in with a few drops of blood from his left ear.  There have been knock-down-drag-outs before with some of the others, but it's been a while. I believe I started using the Feliway after that which seemed to help calm them down.   

Thanks @Ginny.  I had wondered if mutual cat grooming that suddenly ends, was a young cat behaviour, or mostly a female initiated behaviour.

Hearing all the other members,...it seems that it is done by elderly cats, younger cats, siblings and non-siblings.  And my theory of it being mostly female initiated...is out the window, too.

It just depends upon the cats, I guess.

Your Oreo sounds like he wants to be an 'alpha' ...but had to learn respect for his elders, and also it sounds like he misjudged Ned's abilities.  "Ned almost cleaned his clock"..

...poor Oreo...but at least he learned...I hope. 

I'll remember if it happens with my fur crew...about the Feliway.  Good advice.

 
Muffin and Muffy do the same thing. They are mother and daughter and elderly cats. They just started grooming each other. Before now they could not stand each other.

This is good to know, that elderly cats also change their behaviour.  Very interesting, that they just started grooming each other.  

 

[stewball]

My two boys groom and fight daily. Seems it's quite common then and I don't need to worry. I.also clap my hands. Hard. Hurts me!