What Is Jak's Breed?

Marc Martinez II

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I may have asked this before, but I cannot seem to find it. So I will do a new post just in case.

My name is Marc, and I recently obtained a kitten (named Jak) from breeders who were moving towards Siamese cat. He was given to me as a Japanese Bobtail, but I believe that they were lying or don't know any better. Jak was born all white and with no tail. Now, he has this beautiful Snowshoe coloration with amazing dark points. His are are kinda blue-ish. Could anyone help me and make an educated guess on what Jak could be? I love his uniqueness, plus he's friendly with my dogs.

Thanks!
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Marc Martinez II

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Jak doesn't have a pedigree, and I started questioning his genetics when I realized that "jappies" DO have tails, they are just very short, and curled or kinked, and no more than 3 inches away from the body. Jak was born completely tailless, yet the tuft of hair on his rump gives it a bunny look. As for his snowshoe coloration, looks as if he may a siamese or a siamese mix. Not really sure.
 

1CatOverTheLine

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But Jak isn't pointed, strictly speaking; the white masking gene is in evidence here as well. The markings are Snowshoe markings - very interesting genetics, and a gorgeous kitty.

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Marc Martinez II

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But Jak isn't pointed, strictly speaking; the white masking gene is in evidence here as well. The markings are Snowshoe markings - very interesting genetics, and a gorgeous kitty.

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Thanks. I love how he looks. And as for the Snowshoe color, he was mostly white with the dark ears, eye patches and rump. The other color never set it until around between 7-10 weeks. Right now, Jak is around 15 weeks. And after doing more research on breeds, the Snowshoe is a Siamese crossed with a bicolored American Shorthair. But I also read that some breeders often cross Snowshoes back to Siamese, or even Orientals, to keep the desired pattern. They say its very hard to produce it. What do you believe? To me, this is strong enough evidence that Jak is at the very least a Siamese mix.
 

abyeb

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The CFA standard says that other Japanese Bobtail colors allowed are:

OTHER ALLOWED COLORS/PATTERNS: Any other colors or pattern or combination thereof except coloring showing the evi- dence of hybridization resulting in un-patterned agouti (i.e. Abysinnian coloring), or that color/pattern with white.

So technically, (1CatOverTheLine, please correct me if I'm wrong) the Snowshoe bicolor point pattern would be allowed in Japanese Bobtails.

And re: the shorter tail, this is listed in the breed standard as a disqualifier for JBTs, but the fact that they needed to write this disqualifier into the standard in the first place indicates that JBTs are sometimes born without a tail. Basically, my point is that he likely does have some Japanese Bobtail influence, but as the breeder was in the process of moving over to Siamese, it's possible that an accidental cross occurred. A Siamese x a bicolor Japanese Bobtail (one of the most popular JBT colors) could produce these markings, in the same way that the Siamese x bicolor American Shorthair crosses produced Snowshoes back when the breed began. Nowadays, in TICA, allowable outcrosses for the Snowshoe are American Shorthair and Siamese cats. http://www.tica.org/pdf/publications/standards/sn.pdf

And, yes, you're right that the show-quality Snowshoe pattern is hard to produce in a controlled-breeding setting, another reason why Jak is so unique!
 
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Marc Martinez II

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The CFA standard says that other Japanese Bobtail colors allowed are:

OTHER ALLOWED COLORS/PATTERNS: Any other colors or pattern or combination thereof except coloring showing the evi- dence of hybridization resulting in un-patterned agouti (i.e. Abysinnian coloring), or that color/pattern with white.

So technically, (1CatOverTheLine, please correct me if I'm wrong) the Snowshoe bicolor point pattern would be allowed in Japanese Bobtails.

And re: the shorter tail, this is listed in the breed standard as a disqualifier for JBTs, but the fact that they needed to write this disqualifier into the standard in the first place indicates that JBTs are sometimes born without a tail. Basically, my point is that he likely does have some Japanese Bobtail influence, but as the breeder was in the process of moving over to Siamese, it's possible that an accidental cross occurred. A Siamese x a bicolor Japanese Bobtail (one of the most popular JBT colors) could produce these markings, in the same way that the Siamese x bicolor American Shorthair crosses produced Snowshoes back when the breed began. Nowadays, in TICA, allowable outcrosses for the Snowshoe are American Shorthair and Siamese cats. http://www.tica.org/pdf/publications/standards/sn.pdf

And, yes, you're right that the show-quality Snowshoe pattern is hard to produce in a controlled-breeding setting, another reason why Jak is so unique!
All of this is very helpful and informative. In any case, I probably will never get in touch with the breeder since the number changed. All I got from her was Jak's shot records and that's all. As mentioned to another member here, Jak has no pedigree, therefore, I can only speculate about his genetics.

That said, is there any possible way that I can have Jak DNA tested to figure out his breed make-up? I called every vet in San Antonio, and they only do dog breed DNA testing. I thought about maybe breeding him in the future, possibly to a female purebred Siamese (traditional or modern) or a JBT for some beautiful and unique looking cats. I'd love to hear your opinion on the matter. For now, though, I just wanna enjoy his playfulness and dog-like behavior of constantly following me around (and playing with my pups as well).
 

abyeb

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The veterinary school at Texas A&M might be able to help you out with DNA testing. Even if you can find out Jak's breed, he is most likely a mix (a Domestic Shorthair), so for that reason, I would not reccommend breeding him, the kittens would also be Domestic Shorthairs. You could ask your vet or local shelter about demand for mixed-breed kittens.
 
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Marc Martinez II

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The veterinary school at Texas A&M might be able to help you out with DNA testing. Even if you can find out Jak's breed, he is most likely a mix (a Domestic Shorthair), so for that reason, I would not reccommend breeding him, the kittens would also be Domestic Shorthairs. You could ask your vet or local shelter about demand for mixed-breed kittens.
In that case, the best thing for me to do would be to have him neutered once he is old enough. Pity, I really adore Jak's coat coloration and very soft, silky fur. It would've been nice to have more kittens like him. Oh well, can't be helped.
 

1CatOverTheLine

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Abyeb is correct on all counts.

Jak does, indeed, have close Siamese heritage - only the cs allele will produce his colour pattern. As to what I think (regarding the pattern being difficult to reproduce), it is. There are three separate alleles at work in Siamese and Domestic Bicolour crosses in the creation of the Snowshoe patterning, and I know a little bit about the history of the Snowshoe breed - enough to know that much of the outcome is luck. Jak got all the cards (I have a Snowshoe that got all the cards as well); do keep us informed as Jak grows up. Most Snowshoes like water; most are aerial, and every one is smarter than the average politician. Be prepared to put locks on your cabinets.

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Marc Martinez II

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Abyeb is correct on all counts.

Jak does, indeed, have close Siamese heritage - only the cs allele will produce his colour pattern. As to what I think (regarding the pattern being difficult to reproduce), it is. There are three separate alleles at work in Siamese and Domestic Bicolour crosses in the creation of the Snowshoe patterning, and I know a little bit about the history of the Snowshoe breed - enough to know that much of the outcome is luck. Jak got all the cards (I have a Snowshoe that got all the cards as well); do keep us informed as Jak grows up. Most Snowshoes like water; most are aerial, and every one is smarter than the average politician. Be prepared to put locks on your cabinets.

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Thanks for the update. I plan to have locks on certain doors, that's for sure. So then, would it be more or less right to consider Jak a Snowshoe-Siamese mix then? Or what would be the proper label? Either way, I may just have him fixed later on since he has no papers nor a pedigree.
 

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All of this is very helpful and informative. In any case, I probably will never get in touch with the breeder since the number changed.
You could try looking up the breeder on Facebook. Even though I got the papers on my dog, this is how I found the breeder after she moved to another state.
 

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Jak seems healthy as you dont mention any health problems, but in this, he is a lucky guy. Because some of the cats totally without tail, have also internal damages - problems with intestines and urine bladder arent uncommon. Surely a major reason why the JBT association dont recommend totally tailless cats, although it "should" be their dream.
I mean, you would probably play with fire, if you wanted to breed on him. We cant know if his descendants were as lucky and healthy as he is, although he is one of these totally tailless and carries that gene for being totally tailless...

So another reason, if you dont exactly know what you are doing, just neuter him and be happy with it.

IF you want to do some breeding, begin with a more uncomplicated breed. :)


In that case, the best thing for me to do would be to have him neutered once he is old enough. Pity, I really adore Jak's coat coloration and very soft, silky fur. It would've been nice to have more kittens like him. Oh well, can't be helped.
 
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