What do I do about my late/absent boss?

raintyger

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,690
Purraise
139
Location
Long Beach, CA
Weird situation here.

About 3 months ago I got a new boss. He's young-ish, early 30s. There's 3 people in my department. Myself, my boss, and the department head. The department head works remotely on the East coast. My boss and I are in California, at the company headquarters where there are about 60 people total.

My boss for the most part is OK except for his attendance and punctuality. Now, given, I could be wrong about this because I'm not privy to whether or not he's called in sick or declared a different start time, but for other reasons everything seems like he's severely abusing the fact that our dept. head cannot physically see him.

When he started he came in around 8:00 a.m. Rapidly that deteriorated to 8:15 a.m. (I'd say within the first 2 weeks). Now he doesn't come in until 8:30, and frequently 9:00. I work from 7:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., so to be fair I don't know when he leaves, but the start times are very erratic.

His lunches vary from 1.25 hours to 2 hours, with most of them being 1.5 hours. One time he was out for 1.5 hours, came back for 20 minutes, and then left for another 30 minutes. I saw him come up the lobby stairs, so I'm pretty sure he left the building for those 30 minutes.

Three times now he has been completely absent from work, once for half a day and two other times for an entire day. There has been no communication to me as to whether he was sick or at a conference (unlikely, although his position does attend conferences, it's like twice a year). I suspect that on these days he may be checking his e-mail remotely and then coming in only if someone has contacted him for a specific assignment. Voice mails are also forwarded to our e-mail accounts, so all he has to do is set up his mobile phone so that he can receive work e-mail on it. There is a company time-off calendar that records any absences, vacation or sick, and I know from this he is not reporting these days. And all 3 absences were on Friday or Monday, making it conveniently a long weekend.

For the most part I don't really care how he conducts his professional life, but I suspect this is eventually going to catch up with him. When somebody notices he is gone, they will come to me, the only other member in the department in California, and ask if I've seen him. At that point I would probably just give a factual, "No, I haven't seen him all day." But I also feel that eventually they'll suspect the problem is deeper and start probing further. At this point I'm stuck in a bad spot. If I tell them the truth and say that I suspect he's been abusive with his hours, then I create friction between him and I, and he gives me my reviews. If I don't say anything and senior management finds out the extent of things, then I'm in trouble with them. I feel the abuse of time is so big senior management probably will eventually find out.

The reason I don't do anything now is that I would have to bring it up to senior management. It is unlikely they'd just fire him as I haven't heard that he's doing poorly otherwise. They'd likely just have a talk with him, probably not even write him up, because they wouldn't realize the full extent of the situation not having observed it themselves. So that would leave me in a bad position with him.

Does anybody have suggestions on how to navigate this?
 
Last edited:

Kat0121

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
15,036
Purraise
20,363
Location
Sunny Florida
I wouldn't do anything UNLESS his absences are causing more work for you. He's a grown man and I'm sure that he knows what his responsibilities are. If his absences are not causing you to have to do his work or cover something he'd normally do, then do nothing. If someone asks you if you have seen him and you have not, simply say, "no I haven't". If they ask you when was the lat time you saw him, tell them. You are under no obligation to cover for this guy.  All you're doing is answering a direct question honestly. If he truly is taking advantage of the fact that the department head can't see what he's doing, it will eventually catch up to him either through office gossip from other departments or from the department head needing him for something and can't get a hold of him. Just because the guy isn't there doesn't mean he doesn't have an idea of what's going on. In other words, let him hang himself. It sounds like he already has the rope to do it with. Not literally, of course. 

Now, if his absence IS causing more work for you that normally would be his responsibility, what I would do first is speak to him directly and let him know. He might have a valid reason for the hours he keeps. I doubt it but he might. If he had a conference or something like that, wouldn't he communicate that to you especially since you're the only other one in the department that actually is in the office with him? That's what most people would do even as just a common courtesy. That way if someone does come looking for him, you can tell them where he is and when he's expected back. You can also explain it to him that way if/when you ask him. If he doesn't give you a valid reason for his absences and continues the behavior, at that point I'd go to senior management. If he is just coming and going as he pleases, it's affecting the company and therefore them.
 

misty8723

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
7,688
Purraise
8,129
Location
North Carolina
Do you have flex hours where you work? Do you know he's not working at home sometimes?  I don't know where my boss is half the time.  If someone asks me, I just tell them I don't know where he is and let it go at that.  Unless it's your job to keep track of him I wouldn't worry about it. 
 

denice

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
18,839
Purraise
13,146
Location
Columbus OH
I probably would just pretend like I hadn't noticed.  As long as you aren't being required to cover for him then it isn't really your responsibility, he is supposed to be keeping an eye on you rather than the other way around.  If someone from senior management asks about him just answer the question honestly without offering any info beyond answering the question or questions asked.  Senior management may very well be aware of the situation.  If they are then they are either okay with it or they are just giving him enough rope to hang himself. 
 

Winchester

In the kitchen with my cookies
Veteran
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
29,730
Purraise
28,024
Location
In the kitchen
 
I probably would just pretend like I hadn't noticed.  As long as you aren't being required to cover for him then it isn't really your responsibility, he is supposed to be keeping an eye on you rather than the other way around.  If someone from senior management asks about him just answer the question honestly without offering any info beyond answering the question or questions asked.  Senior management may very well be aware of the situation.  If they are then they are either okay with it or they are just giving him enough rope to hang himself. 
 He's your boss, for better or worse. Don't say anything. 

Our admin assistant is like that. Our hours are 8:30 to 4:30 with an hour for lunch. I had asked my boss if I could work 8-4 and it was fine, but I'm usually in office around 7 or so. It's an hour of quiet, I enjoy my coffee, enjoy the internet. A co-worker comes in at 8, another one works 9-5. Our admin comes in pretty much whenever she feels like it, usually around 9:30 or so, spends 30 minutes getting her breakfast, another two hours or so reading the newspaper, then she talks to her husband, sister, etc on the phone for the rest of the day. To be fair, she's been there for almost 30 years (she won't retire bc her DH doesn't have a job and she needs the insurance) and she knows pretty much everything there is to know about the department: old situations, old plans, who did what and when, etc. Both my boss and I go to her first when we need information....she usually has it. She's is not punctual by any shot and everybody knows it. Nobody cares, though, and I consider it NOMB.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6

raintyger

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,690
Purraise
139
Location
Long Beach, CA
 
Do you have flex hours where you work? Do you know he's not working at home sometimes?  I don't know where my boss is half the time.  If someone asks me, I just tell them I don't know where he is and let it go at that.  Unless it's your job to keep track of him I wouldn't worry about it. 
It's not likely. They pretty much want warm bodies sitting in their chairs. There's one guy in IT that gets away with working from home on a regular basis, but that's it. The fact that I haven't been notified that my boss could be working from home is really suspicious. Just as a good business practice you'd want your teammates to know whether or not you'll be in so you can communicate and plan your day. Plus the one time that there was a legitimate reason like a conference, I have been notified.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I wasn't planning on initially stepping forward and saying anything. My question is more what happens when senior management starts asking questions like "When is he in? Is he absent a lot? What time does he generally come in? How long does he take lunch for? Does he ever tell you when he's gone?" They will ask these questions not at first but eventually because I'm the only person to ask. I'm thinking if they ask something like that I should request that I not report to him anymore.
 

swampwitch

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
7,753
Purraise
158
Location
Tall Trees & Cold Seas Vancouver Island
 
Thanks for everyone's responses. I wasn't planning on initially stepping forward and saying anything. My question is more what happens when senior management starts asking questions like "When is he in? Is he absent a lot? What time does he generally come in? How long does he take lunch for? Does he ever tell you when he's gone?" They will ask these questions not at first but eventually because I'm the only person to ask. I'm thinking if they ask something like that I should request that I not report to him anymore.
I would answer those questions with, "I'm sorry, I haven't felt it was my place to keep track of him" or "Apologies, I didn't realize I should keep up with that" or something to that effect. If they ask you to answer them with specific details, I would make the request you state in your last sentence. You should remain loyal to your boss, but without being dishonest to his superiors. Tricky!

Who knows, maybe you will get promoted to his job. That's another good reason not to give much negative information about him - his bosses don't want someone who might rat them out.

Keep in mind you might not really know the exact situation or arrangement your boss has for his work. He also might have leniency if he's a relative or something.  I've worked two different jobs that originally had set hours, but in both my bosses eventually relaxed that and let me work the hours wanted. As long as my work was done on time they didn't care how many hours I actually put in.

I doubt that is what is going on with your boss, but you never know. Not telling you when he is out, or when he is coming back is unprofessional, so I'm guessing the rest of work on the job is also amateur. 
 
Last edited:

misty8723

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
7,688
Purraise
8,129
Location
North Carolina
I agree, I would respond that I didn't really notice. Possibly, you could just say you have been too busy working to really pay attention to his comings and goings?  If they do ask, you might even mention it casually to your boss that "someone" was asking about him - without giving a name.

My boss almost never tells me where he's going, but will leave a note on the door if he plans to be late or out for the day.  It's different, though, because we do have flex hours (I work 7 to 4 most days. Boss comes in around 9:30 and leaves I don't know when). It's also acceptable for us to work from home occasionally.  When people ask me where he is I usually just joke that it's not my day to keep track of him. 
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9

raintyger

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,690
Purraise
139
Location
Long Beach, CA
 
I would answer those questions with, "I'm sorry, I haven't felt it was my place to keep track of him" or "Apologies, I didn't realize I should keep up with that" or something to that effect. If they ask you to answer them with specific details, I would make the request you state in your last sentence. You should remain loyal to your boss, but without being dishonest to his superiors. Tricky!

Who knows, maybe you will get promoted to his job. That's another good reason not to give much negative information about him - his bosses don't want someone who might rat them out.

Keep in mind you might not really know the exact situation or arrangement your boss has for his work. He also might have leniency if he's a relative or something.  I've worked two different jobs that originally had set hours, but in both my bosses eventually relaxed that and let me work the hours wanted. As long as my work was done on time they didn't care how many hours I actually put in.

I doubt that is what is going on with your boss, but you never know. Not telling you when he is out, or when he is coming back is unprofessional, so I'm guessing the rest of work on the job is also amateur. 
Thanks, hadn't really thought about giving a non-answer to those specific questions since I do know specifics about his attendance. Once I noticed he was quite late, I kept track for a couple weeks purely out of curiosity as to how bad the situation was. And it's really hard not to notice when your teammate just plain isn't in at all. Especially since when I get up to make copies, get printouts, or even go to the restroom, I have to face his desk.

His job and my job are completely different, so no promotion for me unless I study a different career path. Our setup is really weird in that way. I'm in marketing, and we don't have a separate marketing department, so I got lumped in with the closest fit. My boss supervises my position purely out of convenience for the department head. She doesn't have too much reason to contact me, and I've been here forever. So I operate pretty much on my own, and my supervisor only needs to intervene if there's problems with my workload.

I've considered that maybe there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for all of this. Maybe he has been sick or made special arrangements, but as time passes and there's more and more days where he just doesn't come in or takes a 2 hour lunch, it becomes more and more implausible.

So I guess no one thinks that if ones suspects gross abuse of time that it should be reported? Does anybody have experience from the supervisor's point of view? Would a supervisor think that if someone has knowledge of such abuse that they owe it to the company to report it?
 

nansiludie

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
2,171
Purraise
1,213
I think this is a very sticky situation to be in. I would not say anything about it but when asked don't lie about it. Just tell them you are doing your work and you aren't entirely sure when he's come in and when he has left. Tell them what days you did see him come in, but that is all. You're pretty much in a catch 22. Either you do or don't and it still may kick you.
 
Last edited:

nansiludie

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
2,171
Purraise
1,213
 
Thanks, hadn't really thought about giving a non-answer to those specific questions since I do know specifics about his attendance. Once I noticed he was quite late, I kept track for a couple weeks purely out of curiosity as to how bad the situation was. And it's really hard not to notice when your teammate just plain isn't in at all. Especially since when I get up to make copies, get printouts, or even go to the restroom, I have to face his desk.

His job and my job are completely different, so no promotion for me unless I study a different career path. Our setup is really weird in that way. I'm in marketing, and we don't have a separate marketing department, so I got lumped in with the closest fit. My boss supervises my position purely out of convenience for the department head. She doesn't have too much reason to contact me, and I've been here forever. So I operate pretty much on my own, and my supervisor only needs to intervene if there's problems with my workload.

I've considered that maybe there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for all of this. Maybe he has been sick or made special arrangements, but as time passes and there's more and more days where he just doesn't come in or takes a 2 hour lunch, it becomes more and more implausible.

So I guess no one thinks that if ones suspects gross abuse of time that it should be reported? Does anybody have experience from the supervisor's point of view? Would a supervisor think that if someone has knowledge of such abuse that they owe it to the company to report it?
You really do not know nor have the hard evidence other than your word and I do not think the other workers will back you up considering he is the boss. If associate, maybe but otherwise no.
 

stewball

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
11,747
Purraise
809
Location
Tel Aviv
Say nothing to anybody. Nobody likes a snitch.
If you're questioned give short answers without adding anything.
It's much better in the long run to ignore what he's up to until you're asked something. You may never be asked so telling wouldn't be nice. Just let him do his thing. It's his problem not yours.
 

Draco

NOT Malfoy!
Veteran
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
8,721
Purraise
2,780
Location
LawnGuyLand, NY
I had similar issue with my previous project manager. She and I were "supposed" to be working close together.. but she'd not show up on days or come in late, leave early.. and take longer lunches. and she would never tell me. I have no idea if she told our boss of her abstance or not.. but I never say anything. none of my business to what other people do. Once or twice my boss would ask "Where is she?" and I'd just say I have no idea. They never ask further questions as to how often she's gone for and such. I did make it clear to my boss that I was staying late to catch up on the work. Believe it or not, they know who's here and who's not.

Another coworker strolls in whenever she feels like it, it seems. Sometimes 9, sometimes 10. I don't know what time she leaves since I usually leave earlier (I come in earlier than everyone else). I assume "on time" with everyone else at 5:30 (hours are 9-5:30. I come in 8-4:30) So, I don't say anything, none of my business.

We are there to work and get paid, not to worry about other people. If you start to fret about other people, then you'll get stressed out and its not worth it. Just focus on yourself and what you are doing. If it happens to become a burden on you work-load, then say something. otherwise, don't worry about it.
 

denice

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
18,839
Purraise
13,146
Location
Columbus OH
One of the real, if not the biggest, advantages with being a worker bee rather than a manager is not being concerned with what others are doing.  As a worker bee you just have to be concerned by what you do.  A manager is supposed to know what the people he/she supervises are doing or not doing.
 

swampwitch

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
7,753
Purraise
158
Location
Tall Trees & Cold Seas Vancouver Island
...So I guess no one thinks that if ones suspects gross abuse of time that it should be reported? Does anybody have experience from the supervisor's point of view? Would a supervisor think that if someone has knowledge of such abuse that they owe it to the company to report it?
I completely understand how you feel, but you should never report him because it's not your place, or in other words, it's not your business. No one thinks well of someone who offers up information that gets someone else in trouble. (We learned this on the schoolyard, lol, with the exception of course if someone is getting hurt.) This is between your boss and his supervisor, stay out of it or you could lose the respect of both.

As nansiludie pointed out, you are in a bit of a Catch-22, so the best option is to protect yourself and your job. You don't have to lie - you haven't been asked to keep up with his hours, so you shouldn't report about them. Just say, "I haven't kept track of his hours - do you want me to start doing that?" Discretion is the key here. 
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16

raintyger

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,690
Purraise
139
Location
Long Beach, CA
 
I had similar issue with my previous project manager. She and I were "supposed" to be working close together.. but she'd not show up on days or come in late, leave early.. and take longer lunches. and she would never tell me. I have no idea if she told our boss of her abstance or not.. but I never say anything. none of my business to what other people do. Once or twice my boss would ask "Where is she?" and I'd just say I have no idea. They never ask further questions as to how often she's gone for and such. I did make it clear to my boss that I was staying late to catch up on the work. Believe it or not, they know who's here and who's not.
 So out of curiosity what happened to them? Did they get fired? Promoted? Did they leave before everything erupted?

There was one other person I remember who was absent a lot in our company--a vice president. A lot more conspicuous , though, due to the amount of people she interacted with. Missing from meetings, not there to sign off on projects or people's time cards. She lasted 3 months before she got another job. Until then she was the hottest topic in the company rumor mill.
 

Draco

NOT Malfoy!
Veteran
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
8,721
Purraise
2,780
Location
LawnGuyLand, NY
 
 So out of curiosity what happened to them? Did they get fired? Promoted? Did they leave before everything erupted?

There was one other person I remember who was absent a lot in our company--a vice president. A lot more conspicuous , though, due to the amount of people she interacted with. Missing from meetings, not there to sign off on projects or people's time cards. She lasted 3 months before she got another job. Until then she was the hottest topic in the company rumor mill.
She left the company. She was unhappy here, and I am sure she spent all her time off at interviews and such. I am sure it was the same thing your vice president did too.

The coworker who comes in whenever she wants, she gets told off once in a while. She'd come in on time for a while.. then she'd slack off again. 
 
Last edited:

denice

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
18,839
Purraise
13,146
Location
Columbus OH
Be very careful of  the company rumor mill.  There are people who seem to be participating and draw comments out from people.  They then use those comments with the people in management.  It's the old idea 'make others look bad to make myself look good'.  Unfortunately it does work sometimes.  Of course they leave out what their contributions were.
 

misty8723

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
7,688
Purraise
8,129
Location
North Carolina
 
I completely understand how you feel, but you should never report him because it's not your place, or in other words, it's not your business. No one thinks well of someone who offers up information that gets someone else in trouble. (We learned this on the schoolyard, lol, with the exception of course if someone is getting hurt.) This is between your boss and his supervisor, stay out of it or you could lose the respect of both.

As nansiludie pointed out, you are in a bit of a Catch-22, so the best option is to protect yourself and your job. You don't have to lie - you haven't been asked to keep up with his hours, so you shouldn't report about them. Just say, "I haven't kept track of his hours - do you want me to start doing that?" Discretion is the key here.
I wouldn't ever ask if they want you to start tracking anyone's hours, and I wouldn't do it if asked.  I would just say the first  part and let it go at that.  If you start tracking someone's hours and people find out about it, you will be the bad guy in the situation.

I agree with what most people are saying. As long as it doesn't affect your work or add to your work load, let it go.  You can be pretty sure his boss knows what he's doing.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20

raintyger

TCS Member
Thread starter
Top Cat
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,690
Purraise
139
Location
Long Beach, CA
 
She left the company. She was unhappy here, and I am sure she spent all her time off at interviews and such. I am sure it was the same thing your vice president did too.
I think it was a combo of both unhappy and her own fault. The absences started the first week, so I don't think she was unhappy then. I think what might've happened was that she got an executive position and thought she was now in the position to do whatever she wanted, including keeping whatever hours she pleased. She was wrong and got off on the wrong foot. From there she became unhappy, which led to her seeking a job. She didn't keep a good schedule in the first place, and didn't kept a worse schedule when out interviewing. More unhappiness when people started asking about why she was not at meetings, why she was out so much. More interviews, and round and round we go.

I think my current boss got the impression that he's indispensible. It's true that his position is considered hard to fill and very important to the company, but I doubt that he'll last long. His attendance habits to me say that he's not interested or doesn't appreciate his job.

Thanks for everyone's advice! It's good to know that most likely I won't be considered at fault for not saying anything. And doing nothing is pretty easy.
 
Top