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- Apr 9, 2008
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I thought it might be less confusing to make this its own topic, an offshoot of http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...48#post2256848
So, Ronronne, I must say that yours was a very excellent rant!
Now it's my turn!!!
I can see where you might have gotten into difficulty using pumpkin with dry food. Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s a lot of carbs (~30% in the food plus nearly all of the pumpkin), a lot of fiber, and not much moisture. Too much fiber can be very irritating to the gut. But constipation is mainly about fluid balance. Cats eating dry food are chronically 3-5% dehydrated. (I have the reference for that somewhere…!).
I have been studying feline nutrition for about 15 years now, and in that time I have come to realize the profound differences between canned and dry and their effects on cats. Over the years I have come to recommend canned food only--not even just "mostly" canned food, based on both hard science, and observation of some 15,000 cats over my practice career. Actually, I've become downright cranky about it!
Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not to say you arenâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t smack-dab on the nose about the rapacious profit-seeking behavior of pet food companies, 'cuz you are—that's totally true. A few companies seem to be a bit less about profit than others (like the ones who donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have advertising budgets larger than the the GNP of some countries!). In fact, I wrote an article about deceptive pet food marketing for Animal Wellness magazine (at their request), but they refused to publish it because it would offend too many of their advertisers—duh! They are all guilty of one or more marketing gimmicks. Eventually I got the publishing rights back, and put it on my own website. Hereâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s the link: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...dmarketinghype
BTW, Evo was not involved in the recall, but a food called Evolve (unrelated to Evoâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s maker, Natura) was. Natural Balance was as well—they were caught out soon after they substituted rice protein for venison meat. And let that be a lesson in karmic retribution!
Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not sure what your definition of “premium†is, but nothing from Science Diet, Iams/Eukanuba, Purina, Waltham, Nutro, or Royal Canin fits the bill in my book. Some of them used to be better, but no more.
Here's a summary of my take on the issue, based on literally hundreds of hours of research in various veterinary school and medical school librarys, Medline, etc. (Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m trying to write a book on the subject…well the first draft is done anyway. When I added up everything on my computer that I had written about pet food over the last 15 years, there was enough—Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not making this up—for something like 2200 pages! The editing is brutal! Ack!!) I will try not to go overboard, there are multiple articles on my website if you want to know more, and I have a long list of references.
Here are a few references from veterinary sources that you can find on the internet. If you want more, Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll be happy to send them to you!
http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf – Dr. Zoran is at Texas A&M
http://www.catinfo.org/ – Dr. Freeman is in private practice; she has also done a lot of research and contemplation and gives a very nice summary of all the angles.
http://www.catnutrition.org/catkins.php – summary of a talk by Dr. Deb Greco, board-certifieed in Internal Medicine (ACVIM), formerly of Colorado State (one of my professors there), then of Animal Medical Center in NYC, recently sold her soul to the devil and works for Purina. How the mighty have fallen.
http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.php – Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins, a former Hillâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s employee and feline specialist, whose credentials were sufficient to make her a primary consultant to the FDA during the pet food recall last year; she was one of a handful of people to testify at the congressional hearings.
Okay, Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m done with my rant now! Time for ...\t
So, Ronronne, I must say that yours was a very excellent rant!
I can see where you might have gotten into difficulty using pumpkin with dry food. Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s a lot of carbs (~30% in the food plus nearly all of the pumpkin), a lot of fiber, and not much moisture. Too much fiber can be very irritating to the gut. But constipation is mainly about fluid balance. Cats eating dry food are chronically 3-5% dehydrated. (I have the reference for that somewhere…!).
I have been studying feline nutrition for about 15 years now, and in that time I have come to realize the profound differences between canned and dry and their effects on cats. Over the years I have come to recommend canned food only--not even just "mostly" canned food, based on both hard science, and observation of some 15,000 cats over my practice career. Actually, I've become downright cranky about it!
Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not to say you arenâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t smack-dab on the nose about the rapacious profit-seeking behavior of pet food companies, 'cuz you are—that's totally true. A few companies seem to be a bit less about profit than others (like the ones who donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have advertising budgets larger than the the GNP of some countries!). In fact, I wrote an article about deceptive pet food marketing for Animal Wellness magazine (at their request), but they refused to publish it because it would offend too many of their advertisers—duh! They are all guilty of one or more marketing gimmicks. Eventually I got the publishing rights back, and put it on my own website. Hereâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s the link: http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...dmarketinghype
BTW, Evo was not involved in the recall, but a food called Evolve (unrelated to Evoâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s maker, Natura) was. Natural Balance was as well—they were caught out soon after they substituted rice protein for venison meat. And let that be a lesson in karmic retribution!
Here's a summary of my take on the issue, based on literally hundreds of hours of research in various veterinary school and medical school librarys, Medline, etc. (Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m trying to write a book on the subject…well the first draft is done anyway. When I added up everything on my computer that I had written about pet food over the last 15 years, there was enough—Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not making this up—for something like 2200 pages! The editing is brutal! Ack!!) I will try not to go overboard, there are multiple articles on my website if you want to know more, and I have a long list of references.
- Canned and dry foods have very different macronutrient profiles and donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t really provide comparable nutrition, even among the same flavors of the same brands. I'll give you some ballpark numbers so you can compare. Canned foods are high in protein (45-55% on a dry matter basis (DMB)), moderate fat (20-35% DMB) and low carbohydrate (usually about 8-10% DMB). But dry foods contain only 30-40% protein (some of the “low-carb†versions have up to 50%), 10-25% fat, and 20-50% carbohydrate! Dry foods are typically higher in fiber (1-15%); most canned foods have very little (usually less than 2%). Of course, weight control and senior foods will be somewhat different in proportions (higher in carbs and fiber, lower in fat and protein), but the comparison between wet and dry versions of identical “formulas†will still follow this pattern.
- IMO, the dehydration issue is not solved by putting water in the dry food. It still doesn't make up for the percentae of water in canned food (or in natural prey). Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m sure you know from your own research that cats eating dry food take in only half the moisture of cats eating canned. If you add enough water to the dry food to make it 78% moisture (or even 65-70%, the natural moisture content of a prey animal), most cats won't eat it. Think about what that would really look like--1/4 cup of dry food floating in a little over 3/4 cup of water! You probably also know that dry food gets wet, the population of surface bacteria (always present) doubles within 20 minutes, and grows exponentially from there. I mention these points for others who may not have heard and are curious.
- The carbohydrate issue is not solved by "grain free" formulas--which simply substitute starchy vegetables like potatoes or green peas for the grains. They all still have double or more the carbs as most canned foods—even the diabetic diets. EVO advertises itself as 7% carbs, but analyzes at 13%.
- The animal proteins in dry food are heat-processed twice (first during rendering, and again during extrusion). This causes protein denaturation, which can lead to allergies and IBD. Canned foods are heated once, and generally at a lower temperature.
- Dry food, by its nature, has to contain preservatives; canned doesn't. Even with "natural" preservatives like Vit E and C, ingredients can still contain chemical preservatives. It's illegal not to list them, but most pet food companies ignored that little detail, and didn't list them for 30 years! For example, all fish meal coming into the US is required by US Coast Guard regulations to contain ethoxyquin (evidently the ships carrying it were blowing up due to the heat of oxidation, kinda like how compost gets hot). A few companies (Eagle Pack and I forget who else) have gotten permission to use a safer alternative called Natur-Ox. Nevertheless, most fish meal has ethoxyquin in it, and most dry foods contain fish meal.
Here are a few references from veterinary sources that you can find on the internet. If you want more, Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll be happy to send them to you!
http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf – Dr. Zoran is at Texas A&M
http://www.catinfo.org/ – Dr. Freeman is in private practice; she has also done a lot of research and contemplation and gives a very nice summary of all the angles.
http://www.catnutrition.org/catkins.php – summary of a talk by Dr. Deb Greco, board-certifieed in Internal Medicine (ACVIM), formerly of Colorado State (one of my professors there), then of Animal Medical Center in NYC, recently sold her soul to the devil and works for Purina. How the mighty have fallen.
http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.php – Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins, a former Hillâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s employee and feline specialist, whose credentials were sufficient to make her a primary consultant to the FDA during the pet food recall last year; she was one of a handful of people to testify at the congressional hearings.
Okay, Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m done with my rant now! Time for ...\t