Wet, Dry, Raw vs Feline CRF - Is there a Link?

[carolina]

Many say that there is a link in between diet, specially dry, and Feline CRF.
So, for those of you who actually have, or had a kitty with CRF, can you please answer the poll and if there is anything else you'd like to add, further comment?
I am curious to see how diet relates to the disease in numbers....
Thanks!

P.S.: If you had more of one kitty with CRF, you can make multiple choices.

 

[furryfriends50]

Milo was fed only Science Diet dry food (a double whammy!) before he was diagnosed with CRF.  After his diagnosis I started doing research into feline nutrition and CRF, and he was switched to a low phosphorus...but not low protein...canned food.  He lived two more years - he also was on benezipril/calcitriol (which are spelled incorrectly I'm sure) and SQ fluids.
 

He was twelve when he was diagnosed with CRF. 

 

[feralvr]

I have not had a cat with a CRF, but my sister has. Does that count. It was about 18 years ago when her Tica died from it. I remember her giving fluids daily too. Tica was on a dry diet her whole life, that I know for sure. She died at 13. I don't remember how old she was when she was diagnosed. My sister was a vet tech back then and fed mostly the Hill's prescription diet or Science diet. She now knows better as so do I. We both have learned a lot about cat nutrition in the last year!!!!! .

 

[carolina]

I have not had a cat with a CRF, but my sister has. Does that count. It was about 18 years ago when her Tica died from it. I remember her giving fluids daily too. Tica was on a dry diet her whole life, that I know for sure. She died at 13. I don't remember how old she was when she was diagnosed. My sister was a vet tech back then and fed mostly the Hill's prescription diet or Science diet. She now knows better as so do I. We both have learned a lot about cat nutrition in the last year!!!!! .

I don't see why not? You seem to know her so well.... :dk:
Sorry for her loss....
Sorry for your loss Furry

 

[ldg]

Purina found a link between CRF and cat foods that use acidifiers to offset the alkalinizing impact of carbohydrates in the diet, as far back as 1998. It's not limited to dry, as far as I can see (though they do tend to be much higher in carbs). It seems the link is carbohydrates though... http://www.mousabilities.com/nutrition/research.html

Purina Research Report presented at the 1998 Purina Nutritioinal Forum held on 4-6 June 1998 says under the heading “Nutrition and Renal Function” that 80% of cats with kidney failure have metabolic acidosis and goes on to say “….it is likely that the high incidence of uremic acidosis in cats relates, at least in part, to the acidifying nature of many cat foods. It has been speculated that routine use of acidifyingdiets may contribute to the relatively high incidence of chronic renal failure observed in cats over the past decade”. The paper says that alkalizing to counteract all the acidifiers the pet food companies put into the pet food reduces mortality. Therefore the pet food companies are to blame for the high incidence of kidney failure in cats because they load the pet food with carbohydrate and this alkalises the urine which was found to be causing struvite which stops cats passing urine and can kill them within 24 hours if they are not catheterized and taken off dry food altogether and because of this the pet food companies began putting acidifiers such as DL Methionine into the dry pet food but this has been found to be causing metabolic acidosis which can cause kidney failure and calcium oxalate stones in the kidneys which can cause kidney failure. The Purina paper says that acidifying pet food does not cause kidney failure in dogs as much as it does in cats although it does cause kidney failure in dogs too.

bold, my emphasis.

PubMed - J Vet Med Sci 2001 Mar; 63(3): 337-9 "Effect of supplementation of dry cat food with DL Methionine and ammonium chloride on struvite activity produce and sediment in urine" and this says that supplementing dry food with DL Methionine to acidify it decreases struvite activity. However, if the cats were fed raw food which naturally contains methionine this would naturally acidify their urine and they would not get struvite but the carbohydrate in dry food causes the urine to become alkaline and struvite forms in an alkaline urine. Acidifying pet food causes metabolic acidosis which predisposes to kidney failure, calcium oxalate stones and loss of bone density in cats and so is not as good thing to do but most dry food is acidified and must be causing a lot of kidney failure since Purina say that 85%[sic] of cats with kidney damage have metabolic acidosis and they link this to the routine acidifying of dry pet food.

 

[sugarcatmom]

Aztec has had renal insufficiency for over 2 years now (he's 19), and was eating 100% wet (roughly half canned, half commercial raw) for many years before his diagnosis. I didn't change his diet much at all since then (except for eliminating the occasional can of Fancy Feast as a treat). I blame the diabetes for the CKD, and THAT was most certainly brought on by dry food. 

 

[carolina]

@ Laurie/ Re. Purina: So..... Fast Forward 14 years.... and most of the foods they put on the shelves, including Kidney prescription (NF Kidney), is dry...... How nice of them :doh3:

 

[Willowy]

One of my family's first cats was diagnosed with CRF at age 16 (only symptom was peeing on everything). My parents weren't willing to spend a lot of money on a cat that age, so the only "treatment" she got was that we switched her to all canned food. Mostly Fancy Feast, some Natural Balance salmon. She lived to be 21, healthy until the end. Although she never did pee in a litterbox again :lol3:. But at least she used puppy pads so it wasn't too bad.

They were raised on dry Friskies, Cat Chow, Nutro--whatever we could get at the military commissary. Never were very enthusiastic about canned food but we'd give them a can now and then.

 

[ldg]

@ Laurie/ Re. Purina: So..... Fast Forward 14 years.... and most of the foods they put on the shelves, including Kidney prescription (NF Kidney), is dry...... How nice of them :doh3:

Yeah, I've been looking up the ingredients. I don't see methionine or ammonium chloride in the Purina or Purina One UR formulas. :dk: Hill's c/d definitely has methionine in it....

 

[carolina]

Yeah, I've been looking up the ingredients. I don't see methionine or ammonium chloride in the Purina or Purina One UR formulas. :dk: Hill's c/d definitely has methionine in it....

No, they use Calcium Carbonate instead - their Kidney diet doesn't acidify - it makes the urine Alkaline:
•Target urine pH-alkaline (6.7-7.5)

Ingredients (Dry)

Brewers rice, whole grain corn, corn gluten meal,soybean meal, animal fat preserved with mixedtocopherols (form of Vitamin E), animal digest, fish meal, calcium carbonate, potassium citrate, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, fish oil, calcium phosphate, choline chloride, salt, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. J-4563

Look how high Calcium Carbonate is in there - have you ever seen calcium carbonate in dry food before?

 

[ldg]

But isn't calcium carbonate an antacid? Isn't that what Tums is?

 

[carolina]

But isn't calcium carbonate an antacid? Isn't that what Tums is?

Yes - note that's what they use on their Kidney diet (see where it says it reduces mortality to keep the urine Alkaline?)

The paper says that alkalizing to counteract all the acidifiers the pet food companies put into the pet food reduces mortality.

I guess they mess it up until it is too late then try a band-aid to fix it.
I am going to check the ingredietns on the other foods to see what are the acidifiers

 

[carolina]

Purina Uses Phosphoric Acid on their Purina S/O.
To make matters worst (IMHO), Phosphoric Acid is also an appetite stimulant, with excellent palatability, increasing the risk of addiction and obesity. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14620912

Ingredients


Corn gluten meal, chicken, poultry by-product meal, brewers rice, oat fiber, wheat gluten, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), salt, animal liver flavor, phosphoric acid, dried egg product, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, fish oil, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

 

[kittylover23]

Candy was diagnosed with renal lymphoma and CRF. Her diet for most of her life, was 75% wet food and 25% dry food. She was free fed, but she really didn't like kibbles. :dk: She was a wet food kitty, mostly. Dr. Mike blamed her CRF on Friskies (which is quite possible) but then he reccomended me a Purina CRF kibble with almost no moisture. Go figure.

 

[ldg]

But isn't calcium carbonate an antacid? Isn't that what Tums is?

Yes - note that's what they use on their Kidney diet (see where it says it reduces mortality to keep the urine Alkaline?)

The paper says that alkalizing to counteract all the acidifiers the pet food companies put into the pet food reduces mortality.

I guess they mess it up until it is too late then try a band-aid to fix it.
I am going to check the ingredietns on the other foods to see what are the acidifiers

OH! Gotcha. And yeah - balance those acidifiers with an alkalinizer!

 

[ldg]

Purina Uses Phosphoric Acid on their Purina S/O.
To make matters worst (IMHO), Phosphoric Acid is also an appetite stimulant, with excellent palatability, increasing the risk of addiction and obesity. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14620912

Ingredients


Corn gluten meal, chicken, poultry by-product meal, brewers rice, oat fiber, wheat gluten, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), salt, animal liver flavor, phosphoric acid, dried egg product, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, fish oil, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

And there you go - peak pH was 4 hours after being fed, so that's where the recommendation to test urine pH at least 4 hours after a meal comes from. Thanks for looking that up and finding that link, Carolina.

 

[carolina]

And there you go - peak pH was 4 hours after being fed, so that's where the recommendation to test urine pH at least 4 hours after a meal comes from. Thanks for looking that up and finding that link, Carolina.

OMG, your memory is scary
Did you tell Ritz's mom?

 

[just mike]

Purina found a link between CRF and cat foods that use acidifiers to offset the alkalinizing impact of carbohydrates in the diet, as far back as 1998. It's not limited to dry, as far as I can see (though they do tend to be much higher in carbs). It seems the link is carbohydrates though... http://www.mousabilities.com/nutrition/research.html
bold, my emphasis.

Hmmm... Interesting info LDG.  I've noticed a larger percentage of dry diet being diagnosed in this thread than in the diabetic poll.  I have no experience with CRF but find all the posts and info here most interesting.  Hope no one minds me intruding.  <back to lurking>

 

[ldg]

OMG, your memory is scary
Did you tell Ritz's mom?

Yes.

 

[ldg]

Hmmm... Interesting info LDG.  I've noticed a larger percentage of dry diet being diagnosed in this thread than in the diabetic poll.  I have no experience with CRF but find all the posts and info here most interesting.  Hope no one minds me intruding. 

Of course no one minds. And Mike, I found a brochure Purina put together based on their presentation at the 1998 nutritional conference: http://www.purinavets.eu/PDFs/ResearchReport1998_vol3.pdf

Metabolic acidosis is a well-recognized component of chronic renal failure (CRF). Metabolic acidosis in renal failure results primarily from
the limited ability of failing kidneys to excrete hydrogen ions and regenerate bicarbonate. In a retrospective case series of cats with CRF, approximately 80 % had metabolic acidosis based on decreased venous blood pH values and bicarbonate concentrations (Lulich, Osborne et al., 1992).

....Although species-related differences in renal acid excretion may contribute to this apparent difference, it is likely that the high incidence of uremic acidosis in cats relates, at least in part, to the acidifying nature of many cat foods. It has been speculated that routine use of acidifying diets may contribute to the relatively high incidence of CRF observed in cats over the past decade. Further, uremic acidosis may contribute to the chronic wasting typical of CRF.

.

Interestingly, the brochure also includes summary of studies of the use of omega3 supplementation. It was ONLY a fish oil omega 3 that worked, but when the n-6: n-3 ratio was brought down to 1:1, renal function improved with no deleterious effect:

no apparent deleterious effect on lipid metabolism, immune function, blood pressure, or renal function. At higher levels of supplementation, renal function was actually increased in normal cats. These data support the assertion that this dietary maneuver is safe for normal cats and provides some encouragement for further consideration for dietary n-3 PUFA supplementation in cats with renal disease, systemic hypertension, or hypersensitivity reactions.

The observations were seen with fish oil - NOT safflower oil. This just supports what we already know - cats lack the ability to convert ALA (the omega 3 that is in plant-based oils) to EPA and DHA (because they lack the digestive enzyme delta 6 desaturase needed to make the conversion). EPA and DHA are present in the usable form only in animal oils (fish oils).