Wellington has diabetes

[jennyr]

I got bad news at the vet this morning when Wellington went in for his senior panel and IO got a diagnosis of diabetes. His glucose and fructose levels were way out of scale. So now I have a lot more research to do and he has to have a special diet of course and two insulin injections every day. Poor boy spent the morning with prods and needles and cameras, but he was as always, very good. Any comments on diet (my vet says dry is better for diabetes) or other ideas and experience would be welcome.

 

[LTS3]

I highly recommend that you join the message board at FelineDiabetes.com You'll get a lot more detailed help and tips and advice from members there than you can here on TCS. You are certainly welcome to stay on TCS and join in some of the fun games going on in the Cat Lounge forum and show off pictures of your cat

Here is one TCS member's positive experience with the FDMB board: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/318949/does-your-cat-have-diabetes-if-so-please-read

Diet: No, do not feed any dry food, not even the prescription stuff. The right diet for diabetic cats is low carb canned food. Some people call it the "Cat Atkins diet" or "Catkins diet". The FDMB board can suggest good commercial brands to feed. I know the Fancy Feast Classic / Gourmet pate foods are low in carb. You can refer to this chart: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf Look for foods that have under 10% carbs.

Keep treats to low carb, too. Freeze dried 100% meat or fish treats like the PureBites brand are good.

Insulin: The preferred ones to use are Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc. The FDMB board has a section on the different types of insulins that can be used in cats, the pros and cons of each, dosing protocols, and how to save money on insulin and syringes.

Home blood glucose testing is very important, just like it is for Human diabetics. The FDMB can help you with that. You just take a tiny drop of blood from the edge of the ear or paw pad and put the test strips into the blood glucose meter (a Human one is fine) to get a reading. Some vets discourage home blood glucose testing but it's really really important and can save your cat's life.

 

[crazy4strays]

From all that I've read, low carb canned food is best for diabetes and many cats have actually gone into remission after getting on a diet of solely low carb canned food. Even a number of Fancy Feast varieties are sufficiently low in carbs.

 

[crazy4strays]

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/nutritio...t-foods-are-best-for-cats-with-diabetes-30294

 

[jennyr]

I highly recommend that you join the message board at FelineDiabetes.com You'll get a lot more detailed help and tips and advice from members there than you can here on TCS. You are certainly welcome to stay on TCS and join in some of the fun games going on in the Cat Lounge forum and show off pictures of your cat

Here is one TCS member's positive experience with the FDMB board: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/318949/does-your-cat-have-diabetes-if-so-please-read

Diet: No, do not feed any dry food, not even the prescription stuff. The right diet for diabetic cats is low carb canned food. Some people call it the "Cat Atkins diet" or "Catkins diet". The FDMB board can suggest good commercial brands to feed. I know the Fancy Feast Classic / Gourmet pate foods are low in carb. You can refer to this chart: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf Look for foods that have under 10% carbs.

Keep treats to low carb, too. Freeze dried 100% meat or fish treats like the PureBites brand are good.

Insulin: The preferred ones to use are Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc. The FDMB board has a section on the different types of insulins that can be used in cats, the pros and cons of each, dosing protocols, and how to save money on insulin and syringes.

Home blood glucose testing is very important, just like it is for Human diabetics. The FDMB can help you with that. You just take a tiny drop of blood from the edge of the ear or paw pad and put the test strips into the blood glucose meter (a Human one is fine) to get a reading. Some vets discourage home blood glucose testing but it's really really important and can save your cat's life.

Umm Thanks - I am a moderator here, actually, so I know these boards quite well! I have also joined the FDMB and there is certainly a lot of info there. I am a bit unsure right now how to change his diet - all my cats have always been fed grain-free wet food, though they do get a bowl of urinary quality kibble each day to share as snacks. They do not get treats except at Christmas. I can see a battle with my vet coming up - we already had words today when I questioned the wisdom of the RC Diabetic kibble she gave me. She insisted that although wet food was best for kidney and urinary health (I have two older cats with renal problems), dry food was best for diabetics. But I shall tackle that one. I am not sure if I can get FF here but I shall do some research. I can get Kattovit diabetic pate which seems quite good.

I am fine with injections and blood tests - I have been doing those with all my animals for years as necessary.

The vet is ordering the insulin for me to pick up tomorrow. I did not know there were different sorts or I would have asked. However I shall make sure I have the information to hand now.

Just for info, Wellington's glucose level was 350 this morning, and fructose 250. Several times what they should be.

 

[maggiemay]

Umm Thanks - I am a moderator here, actually, so I know these boards quite well! I have also joined the FDMB and there is certainly a lot of info there. I am a bit unsure right now how to change his diet - all my cats have always been fed grain-free wet food, though they do get a bowl of urinary quality kibble each day to share as snacks. They do not get treats except at Christmas. I can see a battle with my vet coming up - we already had words today when I questioned the wisdom of the RC Diabetic kibble she gave me. She insisted that although wet food was best for kidney and urinary health (I have two older cats with renal problems), dry food was best for diabetics. But I shall tackle that one. I am not sure if I can get FF here but I shall do some research. I can get Kattovit diabetic pate which seems quite good.

I am fine with injections and blood tests - I have been doing those with all my animals for years as necessary.

The vet is ordering the insulin for me to pick up tomorrow. I did not know there were different sorts or I would have asked. However I shall make sure I have the information to hand now.

Just for info, Wellington's glucose level was 350 this morning, and fructose 250. Several times what they should be.

Jenny, I'm so sorry to hear about Wellington's diabetes. I'm assuming it's Type II Diabetes?  You said  he went in for his senior blood panel.  How old is Wellington?  I have had a diabetic cat, and she was on high protein, moderate-to-high fat and low carb wet food.  I trust your instincts far more than what your vet is saying.  This is just off the top of my head, but dry kibble has to contain enough carbs to hold it together, and carbs turn into sugar in the body.  These vets and their so-called "prescription" diets - I cannot decide if they simply don't know/aren't taught any better or if they truly believe in these foods.  The ingredient lists are usually awful, and yet, some cats seem to do well on them.  I wasn't willing to take the dry food risk with Maggie.  This link may help you; it certainly helped me when Maggie was diagnosed:  http://www.felinediabetes.com/hodgkinsarticle2.htm  The article contains a link to a list of canned cat foods and their nutritional content with regard to diabetes.  Hugs to you and Wellington, sweetie.  You're such a good mom and I know you will handle this with your usual super-competence.  

 

[jennyr]

Jenny, I'm so sorry to hear about Wellington's diabetes. I'm assuming it's Type II Diabetes?  You said  he went in for his senior blood panel.  How old is Wellington?  I have had a diabetic cat, and she was on high protein, moderate-to-high fat and low carb wet food.  I trust your instincts far more than what your vet is saying.  This is just off the top of my head, but dry kibble has to contain enough carbs to hold it together, and carbs turn into sugar in the body.  These vets and their so-called "prescription" diets - I cannot decide if they simply don't know/aren't taught any better or if they truly believe in these foods.  The ingredient lists are usually awful, and yet, some cats seem to do well on them.  I wasn't willing to take the dry food risk with Maggie.  This link may help you; it certainly helped me when Maggie was diagnosed:  http://www.felinediabetes.com/hodgkinsarticle2.htm  The article contains a link to a list of canned cat foods and their nutritional content with regard to diabetes.  Hugs to you and Wellington, sweetie.  You're such a good mom and I know you will handle this with your usual super-competence.  

I don't feel very competent right now - just very sorry for my boy, who is 11 years old. He is of course asthmatic and FHV, so has had a lot in his life to contend with. He has had a lot of cortisone-steroid injections and tablets to control those conditions at various times, and I always knew there were risks further down the line. But if it were not for those meds he would not be here now - sometimes it is a choice you have to make.

The vet I have seen the last two times is not my regular vet, who is on maternity leave, and I am not at all sure if I shall stay with this one. There are not too many options around - the only other real choice is a lady who I think is very good (I work with her over the fosters because she is the Association contract vet) but she and I crossed swords some time ago over the use of Metacam. I know there are different views but what got me was that she showed me a 'proof' of safety which was a publicity leaflet written by the manufacturers and she hadn't noticed! That is sloppy, IMO.

 

[mani]

 
I highly recommend that you join the message board at FelineDiabetes.com You'll get a lot more detailed help and tips and advice from members there than you can here on TCS. You are certainly welcome to stay on TCS and join in some of the fun games going on in the Cat Lounge forum and show off pictures of your cat

    I think you'll find that there are many members here at TCS with good information and experience.  We're a whole lot more than games and pictures.

The vet I have seen the last two times is not my regular vet, who is on maternity leave, and I am not at all sure if I shall stay with this one. There are not too many options around - the only other real choice is a lady who I think is very good (I work with her over the fosters because she is the Association contract vet) but she and I crossed swords some time ago over the use of Metacam. I know there are different views but what got me was that she showed me a 'proof' of safety which was a publicity leaflet written by the manufacturers and she hadn't noticed! That is sloppy, IMO.

That really is sloppy.  It's a process of weighing up whether you feel that was an indication of her ability or just an oversight.  Finding the right vet to work with is half the battle. 

 

[maggiemay]

I don't feel very competent right now - just very sorry for my boy, who is 11 years old. He is of course asthmatic and FHV, so has had a lot in his life to contend with. He has had a lot of cortisone-steroid injections and tablets to control those conditions at various times, and I always knew there were risks further down the line. But if it were not for those meds he would not be here now - sometimes it is a choice you have to make.

The vet I have seen the last two times is not my regular vet, who is on maternity leave, and I am not at all sure if I shall stay with this one. There are not too many options around - the only other real choice is a lady who I think is very good (I work with her over the fosters because she is the Association contract vet) but she and I crossed swords some time ago over the use of Metacam. I know there are different views but what got me was that she showed me a 'proof' of safety which was a publicity leaflet written by the manufacturers and she hadn't noticed! That is sloppy, IMO.

Jenny, my Maggie's diabetes was also brought on by steroid use.  I had to make a choice between her quality of day-to-day life and what could happen down the road.  I chose to make her comfortable, but yes, those steroids do causes diabetes and I hated that my choice was what brought the disease to my girl.  But we can only do the best we can for these little loves of ours.  As far as the vet you had a disagreement with about Metacam, I think that is worse than sloppy.  Is she aware that Metacam's makers now have a sticker on the label saying that it can be used only once in a cat's entire lifetime?  The vets I know are only trained in pharmacology, know nothing about nutrition, and zero about alternative options.  It's really sad that in this day and age we not only have to be our own M.D.'s, but often, also our own vets (or at least we often seem to know more than they do about the effects of some of these drugs).  I will be keeping you and Wellington in my prayers.  And if you need any of the small needles with which to give insulin, I have an entire box of sealed tiny syringes with needles.  You are welcome to them.

 

[foxxycat]

Sending you hugs and prayers if you believe that things work out. I know all about vets who insist their way or the highway. I hope you can get the diabetes under control. And I think you will do just fine. I understand the guilt about the steroids. Sometimes we don't have a choice in meds. And I too would never use metacam. I thought most vets use buprenorphine instead of metacam?

Sending you hugs and vibes!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jennyr]

Jenny, my Maggie's diabetes was also brought on by steroid use.  I had to make a choice between her quality of day-to-day life and what could happen down the road.  I chose to make her comfortable, but yes, those steroids do causes diabetes and I hated that my choice was what brought the disease to my girl.  But we can only do the best we can for these little loves of ours.  As far as the vet you had a disagreement with about Metacam, I think that is worse than sloppy.  Is she aware that Metacam's makers now have a sticker on the label saying that it can be used only once in a cat's entire lifetime?  The vets I know are only trained in pharmacology, know nothing about nutrition, and zero about alternative options.  It's really sad that in this day and age we not only have to be our own M.D.'s, but often, also our own vets (or at least we often seem to know more than they do about the effects of some of these drugs).  I will be keeping you and Wellington in my prayers.  And if you need any of the small needles with which to give insulin, I have an entire box of sealed tiny syringes with needles.  You are welcome to them.

Sending you hugs and prayers if you believe that things work out. I know all about vets who insist their way or the highway. I hope you can get the diabetes under control. And I think you will do just fine. I understand the guilt about the steroids. Sometimes we don't have a choice in meds. And I too would never use metacam. I thought most vets use buprenorphine instead of metacam?

Sending you hugs and vibes!            :rub:

Thank you both. Here vets use metacam routinely for post-op pain, and the vet I argued with wanted me to give it long-term to Dushka for her arthritis. That was what the study she had was about - long-term pain control. They claim the new version with low dosage for cats is safe. But I insist that all my cats' dossiers say 'no metacam'. Sadly there was no choice about the pred. It was the only drug that controlled Wellington's herpes and asthma. I do not know what I will do now if he has an attack - though the vet today told me I could now get a topical version that is used like an inhaler.

 

[maggiemay]

Thank you both. Here vets use metacam routinely for post-op pain, and the vet I argued with wanted me to give it long-term to Dushka for her arthritis. That was what the study she had was about - long-term pain control. They claim the new version with low dosage for cats is safe. But I insist that all my cats' dossiers say 'no metacam'. Sadly there was no choice about the pred. It was the only drug that controlled Wellington's herpes and asthma. I do not know what I will do now if he has an attack - though the vet today told me I could now get a topical version that is used like an inhaler.

Jenny, my daughter's cat's oncologist has really been pushing Onsior for off-label, long-term use on her cat who is suspicious for cancer.  Normally, Onsior is for post-surgery pain, like Metacam is.  Three aspirations later, we have no definitive diagnosis, but Lexi has a hard round mass on her side the size of a ping-pong ball, so it's probably lymphoma.  The first dose of Onsior put her into such a stupor my daughter had to get right up beside her to even be sure she was still breathing.  Some cats are very sensitive to NSAIDS of any kind and I believe Lexi is one of those.  Made no difference, the oncologist still pushed the Onsior on her.  So we reduced the dose and while she was no longer in a stupor, it didn't reduce the lymphatic swelling in her hind legs like the larger dose did.  The vet told us how it was used long-term in Europe with great success, but neither of us felt comfortable using it for Lexi.  Any NSAID can damage a cat's kidneys and Lexi has enough of a battle on her hands.  If and when the swelling becomes more of a problem, it's an option, but I'm like you - very wary of NSAIDS in general and Metacam in particular.  It's so hard to know what to do when the vet is saying one thing and your instincts are saying another.  However, that sounds very hopeful that you can get a topical version of pred in case he has an attack.  

 

[jennyr]

Wellington is taking his injections very well - it helps that he is used to be held and medicated in various ways. He does not like being on a diet though - his way of attracting my attention has always been to shred paper, and I have had to remove all pending documents and unread magazines from his reach. His particular friends Biscotte and Persil know he is not well and are taking great care to comfort him.

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• jennyr
• Jun 25, 2016

 

[mani]

That is so sweet.

 

[jennyr]

We have had a roller-coaster week, as the whole household adjusts to the new regime, based around the need for Wellington to have his food and medication at set hours. I am caging him at night, between his insulin sessions, then the others can have access for a few hours to their freefeed. He and I go back to the vet today for a blood control test, and then I am taking him to another vet for a second opinion, as so far I am not very happy about the advice and dosages that the original vet has given me. It all goes against everything I have researched, and against the advice of the Diabetic Cat forum I have joined. Anyway, we shall discuss it all today. Wellington is being a lamb over the injections, but so far I have not been able to do a blood test myself woith him - I can't seem to find a vein in his ear, and he struggles too much if I try his paw pad. A friend helped me yesterday, and she was the only one who got pricked by the needle! I shall take the glucometer tot he vet and see if they can show me how to do it better.

Wellington's appetite goes up and down - sometimes he scoffs his food, other times he is not interested, and this morning I had to hand feed him his kibble before injecting him. I am frightened of giving him his insulin on an empty stomach, in case if leads to seizure. He must have both food and meds somehow. Anyway, there are bound to be ups and downs till we get used to it all.

 

[pushylady]

His particular friends Biscotte and Persil know he is not well and are taking great care to comfort him.

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• jennyr
• Jun 25, 2016

:touch: That photo is so lovely. Wellington certainly seems like a very well loved cat.
It's good that you have experience of giving medications, and I'm sure you'll both adjust soon. I know from other's experience that it can take a few weeks to sort out all the dosages and food at the start.

 

[maggiemay]

We have had a roller-coaster week, as the whole household adjusts to the new regime, based around the need for Wellington to have his food and medication at set hours. I am caging him at night, between his insulin sessions, then the others can have access for a few hours to their freefeed. He and I go back to the vet today for a blood control test, and then I am taking him to another vet for a second opinion, as so far I am not very happy about the advice and dosages that the original vet has given me. It all goes against everything I have researched, and against the advice of the Diabetic Cat forum I have joined. Anyway, we shall discuss it all today. Wellington is being a lamb over the injections, but so far I have not been able to do a blood test myself woith him - I can't seem to find a vein in his ear, and he struggles too much if I try his paw pad. A friend helped me yesterday, and she was the only one who got pricked by the needle! I shall take the glucometer tot he vet and see if they can show me how to do it better.

Wellington's appetite goes up and down - sometimes he scoffs his food, other times he is not interested, and this morning I had to hand feed him his kibble before injecting him. I am frightened of giving him his insulin on an empty stomach, in case if leads to seizure. He must have both food and meds somehow. Anyway, there are bound to be ups and downs till we get used to it all.

New regimes can bring a bit of insanity to a household, especially if that household includes many cats.  You have my sympathies regarding the routine change, but you are working out solutions and being very creative.  I think a second opinion is an excellent idea.  I am a firm believer in vet shopping if you don't have utter trust in a particular vet.  We had to go to, literally, 3 vets and 1 oncologist for my daughter's cat, Lexi, who has now lost her battle with lymphoma.  But we tried like hell.  Testing is not easy at all; I did the ear testing with Maggie. Having a vet or vet tech show you how they use the glucometer is a great idea!   Maggie's appetite went up and down as well.  The injections themselves were always well tolerated by Maggie, too.  NO, don't ever give insulin on an empty stomach.

 You shop for a vet until you find one who makes you feel comfortable, one whom you feel is more in line with what your instincts are telling you.  You know Wellington better than anyone does.  You may have to syringe feed him for a bit as you get these kinks worked out.  Sometimes, they accept syringe-fed food FAR better if you first blend the wet food first with a hand-held blender.  You can serve it as is, or mix with cat milk, broth or water.  It makes it into a more soupy consistency and they seem to accept that when they won't allow normal syringe feeding.  You might also switch from a 5 ml syringe to a small 1 ml syringe for feeding.  It's much smaller and cats seem to accept it better in their small mouths than the larger syringe.  I will keep you and Wellington in my prayers because I know all too well what you're going through.  Hugs, Jenny.  Hang in there!

 

[jennyr]

New regimes can bring a bit of insanity to a household, especially if that household includes many cats.  You have my sympathies regarding the routine change, but you are working out solutions and being very creative.  I think a second opinion is an excellent idea.  I am a firm believer in vet shopping if you don't have utter trust in a particular vet.  We had to go to, literally, 3 vets and 1 oncologist for my daughter's cat, Lexi, who has now lost her battle with lymphoma.  But we tried like hell.  Testing is not easy at all; I did the ear testing with Maggie. Having a vet or vet tech show you how they use the glucometer is a great idea!   Maggie's appetite went up and down as well.  The injections themselves were always well tolerated by Maggie, too.  NO, don't ever give insulin on an empty stomach.

 You shop for a vet until you find one who makes you feel comfortable, one whom you feel is more in line with what your instincts are telling you.  You know Wellington better than anyone does.  You may have to syringe feed him for a bit as you get these kinks worked out.  Sometimes, they accept syringe-fed food FAR better if you first blend the wet food first with a hand-held blender.  You can serve it as is, or mix with cat milk, broth or water.  It makes it into a more soupy consistency and they seem to accept that when they won't allow normal syringe feeding.  You might also switch from a 5 ml syringe to a small 1 ml syringe for feeding.  It's much smaller and cats seem to accept it better in their small mouths than the larger syringe.  I will keep you and Wellington in my prayers because I know all too well what you're going through.  Hugs, Jenny.  Hang in there!

Well, good news. Wellington's glucose is down to either 155 or 108, depending on which machine to believe. But either way, he was 320 last Thursday, so that is a terrific improvement. He has also lost 500 grams in weight, which is good, but much too fast in my opinion for an 8.7 kg cat. Today we went to two vets, the original one, who was pleased with his progress but cross with me when I told her I had changed the insulin dosage and why, and I showed her the charts I had made. She did actually say I had done the right thing, though I should have phoned her and asked. Since it all happened at 7.30 am and there was no-one to ask, and the cat was lying there all floppy, I took things into my own hands. She wants him to go into the clinic for a full day next week, so they can do a curved chart of levels against time of day.

So then I went to my 2nd opinion vet, whom I know through the Association for Rescue. She immediately said he should never have been on such a high dosage at the start of treatment, and also that he was losing weight too fast. And she agreed with me that a wet diet would be better, and we discussed brands and amounts and I think he will be much happier as his daily diet will be increased and be more to his taste.. Then she showed me how to use the glucometer and it turns out I was given the wrong needles. So I think after the curve is done I will transfer all his treatment to the new vet - she is older and into nutrition, and I feel much more trust.

I doubt it will come to syringe feeding for him, but if it does I am already prepared. I have a good variety of sizes,suitable from horse to day-old kittens - 50ml to 1ml. But I hope they won't be needed. Thanks everyone for your support as always.

 

[maggiemay]

Well, good news. Wellington's glucose is down to either 155 or 108, depending on which machine to believe. But either way, he was 320 last Thursday, so that is a terrific improvement. He has also lost 500 grams in weight, which is good, but much too fast in my opinion for an 8.7 kg cat. Today we went to two vets, the original one, who was pleased with his progress but cross with me when I told her I had changed the insulin dosage and why, and I showed her the charts I had made. She did actually say I had done the right thing, though I should have phoned her and asked. Since it all happened at 7.30 am and there was no-one to ask, and the cat was lying there all floppy, I took things into my own hands. She wants him to go into the clinic for a full day next week, so they can do a curved chart of levels against time of day.

So then I went to my 2nd opinion vet, whom I know through the Association for Rescue. She immediately said he should never have been on such a high dosage at the start of treatment, and also that he was losing weight too fast. And she agreed with me that a wet diet would be better, and we discussed brands and amounts and I think he will be much happier as his daily diet will be increased and be more to his taste.. Then she showed me how to use the glucometer and it turns out I was given the wrong needles. So I think after the curve is done I will transfer all his treatment to the new vet - she is older and into nutrition, and I feel much more trust.

I doubt it will come to syringe feeding for him, but if it does I am already prepared. I have a good variety of sizes,suitable from horse to day-old kittens - 50ml to 1ml. But I hope they won't be needed. Thanks everyone for your support as always.

That is excellent news, Jenny!  The original vet being cross with you because you HAD to take matters into your own hands tells me all I need to know, plus the facts that you were given the wrong needles by this same vet and a too-high dosage of insulin to begin with.  Would this second opinion vet do the full-day curve?  If so, I would let her do it..

 

[foxxycat]

so glad you found a vet to trust. And I would not use the 1st vet. This whole thing sounds very stressful. I thank you for posting details about diabetes as I always wonder what I would do if mine came down with it. my 17 yr old needs her yearly checkup and gonna do bloods n urine test. So glad your kitty is feeling better. How very scary to have your cat laying there all floppy while you had to figure out how to proceed. I am very thankful for these online forums to help figure out the details behind certain health conditions. So happy for you!