Weight Loss - Cancer? IBD? Euthanasia?

[DesperateMistrustful]

He's prescribed an antibiotic pill, a cerenia pill and proviable paste. I can administer liquid medication no problem. Atopica is coming in liquid form and the antibiotic is being replaced with a liquid. He's had tons of cerenia shots but I don't want to take him back, especially when I can't even go in with him and they'd have him in there for two hours or more; the clinic is extremely busy right now and probably working with a skeleton crew. I could try buying more pill masking products but it would take a long time to arrive and I've already tried pill pocket dough/margarine/cheese (with the pill gun).

Last night I got in maybe 2/3 of a proviable paste dose after a very bad time. He threw it up almost immediately and had diarrhea again. He is simply too smart for pills, I don't know what else to say. We swaddle him up, hold his head still, he keeps his mouth clamped shut so I open it, he uses his tongue to deflect the pill gun, I eventually get the pill gun in the right place and shoot, I remove the gun and keep his mouth closed, I massage his throat and blow gently on his nose until he swallows. I wait a few more seconds and let go. He spits out the dissolving pill. We tortured him for over 15 minutes trying to get cerenia down. I have watched all of the videos with sedated pets showing how easy it is. This would only work with very small pills or a different cat, he either keeps his throat closed or I am the biggest idiot in the world. I really think it's the former because I bet I could pill my incredibly aggressive cat more easily--I'd have no face afterwards but he'd swallow it. I thought about breaking up the pill into small pieces but it caked apart and I'm down to only one more after all of the wasted attempts.

I've already talked to every mobile vet in the city when I was trying to get a second opinion, they won't help during the crisis because I'm not an existing client. He weighed 8.6lbs yesterday and barely ate. Today he's eaten much more (maybe the mirtazapine is working) but not nearly enough. I'm down to two options:

1) Skip the nauseating probiotic paste and go straight to sprinkling the pill over his food. I doubt he'll eat it but I haven't tried. Give him atopica and the liquid antibiotic when they get here. See if all of this does anything--anyone know how long it might take for them to start working? I don't want to keep taking him back for fluid/B12 shots, the longer we go the more he'll need hospitalization due to lack of appetite and I am NOT putting him through that again.

2) Take him to hospital #2 and put in an e-tube. It was discussed briefly but they hoped his appetite would come back. Medications would be painless to administer and he'd be able to get the nutrients and hydration he needs at home. I actually wanted one put in much earlier in this saga but hospital #1 wanted their hospitalization money.

My focus is on his quality of life. I'm obviously scared of putting him through another surgery, as comparatively minor as it is, especially if this is cancer and won't even be fixed with IBD treatment. But freaking him out with medication or force feeding him when he still wouldn't be getting enough calories anyway and traumatizing him every week with another vet trip is no life either. Option #3 is giving up and letting him go...but an e-tube could potentially give him his life back?

I'm sorry if I sound snippy, I appreciate all and any help, I'm just completely fried. We lost another cat very suddenly two weeks before all of this started and now another cat is showing some scary symptoms that will have to be investigated. I'm losing all of my babies at once and only hospitals will allow me to throw my dwindling money at them. I just want my boy to feel okay again.

 

[amandag1]

So sorry. Just doing a quick look- atopica is for dermatitis - allergic rxns is he having some skin issues?
As for the tongue deflecting- my kitty does that too but I kind of open his mouth hold his mouth open and get the gun literally at his pharynx....of course he doesnt wiggle around too much he may just be easy.
I would say try the liquids if you can get them in better.
The paste is a probiotic paste.... right?
So are they treating this like an IBD?

 

[amandag1]

Does your kitty like freeze dried chicken/ meat treats?
i crumble those up on top of wet food to encourage my kitty to eat

 

[DesperateMistrustful]

His small intestine biopsy showed that it was inflamed. He hasn't actually been diagnosed with IBD but it was my last idea on what could be going on with him besides cancer (the vets have no ideas and just say oh yeah, sure, it could be that--as if they aren't being paid to figure it out?!). So IBD is what we're going to try treating. The atopica will be used as an immunosupressant for IBD because he can't take steroids due to his heart murmur.

Yes, the paste is a probiotic. I just sprinkled a probiotic capsule over a heaping forkful of wet food and HE ATE IT ALL! So that's amazing. I will not be messing with the paste anymore, just one of these every 24 hours. The paste was supposed to firm his stool or something in addition to giving him a probiotic but it made him sick.

He's going through phases about which wet food he'll eat. It's only a few varieties among dozens we've tried. I've also tried tons and tons of treats just to get a few more calories in him, he rejects them.

 

[Furballsmom]

HE ATE IT ALL!

Have you tried different brands of kibble (within the bounds of the IBD et al situation), or the gels and other suggestions in this?
How To Get A Cat To Gain Weight – Cat Articles

or maybe the liver shake if it hasn't already been mentioned, and other things in this thread?

What are some good recovery/meal replacer or supplemental feeding products, and what are their pros and cons?

 

[DesperateMistrustful]

All of the vets say just get him eating and we can focus on a strict IBD diet later so I'm open to giving him almost anything. I've tried three brands of kibble, he's been eating some of his preferred beef flavor today. Two more kinds are on the way.

I hadn't heard about the liver shake. It sounds like something he wouldn't touch at all but I'll get some chicken liver today and make a batch of it. I have nori sheets I can grind into a powder. Another cat has stopped eating (along with other, different symptoms) and has an appointment tomorrow. I'll try giving it to her as well. Thanks for the suggestion!

My local store apparently has CatSure powder but he's very picky about his water. I'll get that tomorrow if this shake is palatable just to pile on the calories. I'm not going to force endless squirts down his throat, the amount he'd need is cruel. Everything else would take a long time to arrive and I have no idea where we'll be in one day much less five.

The surgeon called me back. He spoke with the internist who said the biopsy indicates enough inflammation that he should be treated as if he does have IBD. She wanted to put him on prednisolone. I updated him on everything and said the clinic vet didn't want him on a steroid due to his heart murmur. The surgeon was like yeah, he's right. ??????????? He was very concerned about his vomiting. He said they could do a barium contrast x-ray to see if food is actually leaving his stomach and being digested, I said the fact he's pooping indicates it is. He agreed. Hahahaha I'm so done with hospital #1. He said it would be interesting to see if the chest mass shrinks while being treated for IBD, I agree with that. He also said there's a possibility he improves on these medications but it has nothing to do with them and he's just recovering from all of the surgeries, I agree with that too but it's dire so we have to try.

 

[Furballsmom]

 

[kittenmittens84]

Apologies if you wrote somewhere that you’ve tried this already, but can you crush the cerenia (they’re really small pills right?), mix it into ~1 ml of water (the water from a can of tuna would be ideal if he likes tuna), suck up the mixture with a syringe, and squirt it into his mouth? Or mix the crushed pills with a very smelly liquid treat? Maybe ask your vet first because if cerenia is really bitter crushing it might not go well

 

[DesperateMistrustful]

Masking the cerenia won't work but crushing + liquid syringe may, it's much smaller than the antibiotic pill. He unfortunately vomited again tonight but I'm hesitating on trying that because the vomit happened soon after I gave him the new liquid antibiotic. Two quick squirts and it's all done, so much easier than a pill. He hated it and drooled everywhere then two hours later vomited all of his lunch. He's only been vomiting after getting gross medication so right now I want to try nothing but the probiotic tomorrow and just see if he keeps his food down all day the way he kept down his breakfast. He's not really drinking enough and also had diarrhea again. It's not good.

The other thing is when I give him medicine he's just totally turned off of food for hours and hours. I don't expect him to eat anything else tonight when he had quite an appetite all day (compared to lately--still not enough even if he had kept it down). I made the liver shake. He sniffed it for a while but didn't take a drink. This was some time after he'd vomited so I'll try again tomorrow. I also offered it to my other sick cat, she ignored it. I finally tried it on my completely healthy boy who's been gobbling up everything they don't want before I take it away from him, haha...he was so offended by the mere smell that he jumped backwards and shook his head in dramatic disgust. It was worth a shot but three paw pads down.

8.65lbs today after vomiting. Really was hoping after all that food that he'd stay the same.

 

[amandag1]

Have you tried those lickable treats by delectables or the walmart brand/ pure balance shredded chicken is usually a hit when my boy’s appetite sucks

 

[Jcatbird]

Has anyone suggested bone broth? Very nutritious! Something that is used for sick kittens is kitten glop. I can find the recipe if you want to try it. It contains water, plain yogurt, acidophilus, mayonnaise, (evaporated milk but that could be left off or perhaps goats milk could work, check with the vet) gelatin and kitty vitamins and the Gerber 2nd foods all meat baby food can be added. Could even just plain yogurt be given? My Felv cat often throws up and I find that liquid food often stay down better. Recently we tried Purely Fancy Feast entrees and he not only ate them but kept them down. He used to eat the Fancy Feast broths but now refuses them. He also can eat the Fancy Feast flaked food with shrimp. Last resort around here is the baby food meat, the liquid from pure canned breast meat chicken ( no onions or garlic) the water from canned tuna. It’s a constant battle to keep his weight up by rotating foods.

 

[DesperateMistrustful]

We had to say goodbye to another cat today, not the subject of this thread but a 15 year old gal. The vet said she'd never seen blood levels that high in her entire career. Talk of hospitalization, nasogastric tubes, numerous possible cancers. Exactly what we've been going through for a month. The boy's blood work has always been fine--except when he was malnourished--which is partially why I continue to fight for him. I would not put her through what he's going through even if I could handle it because it was much clearer that she had reached her end, as rapid and sudden as it was. I love and miss her.

Obviously very sad today but I have some good news, too. The boy ate a whole 2/5 of a can of paté in one sitting. It was Friskies, the McDonald's of cat food, but it was about 70 calories I bet. He would have eaten more but I'm scared he's going to throw it all up so I'm giving him some time to digest. That's on top of some dry food, a few bites of wet shreds (he mostly just licked all the gravy) and a salmon treat. He might be approaching close to 100 calories consumed today. He needs to be getting 180/day to maintain 9lbs. He also drank a decent amount after each meal.

He's only on the probiotic now. Due for a mirtazapine tomorrow afternoon but I'm just going to take it day by day and let him decide if I need to step in. No vomit or diarrhea yet, knock on wood. I weighed him before he ate his big wet meal and he was up an ounce.

Thank you for all the food suggestions, I've tried a few of those things but not all. Shopping trips are a bit hard right now but I stocked up on more Friskies flavors when I picked up stuff for the liver shake (still rejected but my garden will like it). I'd never get Friskies normally but he likes it the most out of the numerous foods I've offered. I'm honestly a little nervous about the recent chatter about it being dangerous/fatal but it's like well, my cat is already dying and he wants it, who am I to deny him his pleasures?

 

[Mamanyt1953]

First, I am SO, SO SORRY that you lost your precious girl!

Ignore that chatter. I've known many, many cats who lived to ripe old ages eating Friskies. The problem with the internet is that no one randomly posts "Oh, my cat is so healthy on Friskies!" No, the only people you hear from are the small percentage with a horror story to share. And a very wise person here on TCS once told me, when I was agonizing that the only thing my girl will touch is Friskies kibble, "The very best cat food is the one that your cat will actually eat!" The best food in the world is useless in the bowl. It has to get into the cat. And they have their own ideas about what is "good" cat food.

Right now, your boy is eating...at least, far better than he was! AND drinking. Let's take our triumphs where we can find them, and give him just as much good time as possible!

My heart is right there, standing next to yours!

 

[DesperateMistrustful]

Thank you so much. Exactly my thinking.

 

[Furballsmom]

The boy ate a whole 2/5 of a can of paté in one sitting. It was Friskies, the McDonald's of cat food, but it was about 70 calories I bet. He would have eaten more but I'm scared he's going to throw it all up so I'm giving him some time to digest. That's on top of some dry food, a few bites of wet shreds (he mostly just licked all the gravy) and a salmon treat.

YESYESYES

 

[Jcatbird]

I am so sorry. Our hearts are with you.

On the topic of Friskies, cats are picky. We feed them the things they wil accept. I use Friskies too. Shreds and Fancy Feast pate. The flaked or purely Fancy Feast and broths for my Felv. Those at the only foods my Felv can keep down out of many dozens of brands I have tried. MANY dozens. The proof is in the pudding? He is now 13. Our vet office has three vets. They all agree that my Felv boy has done very well to date. I am so glad your boy ate today! I believe in giving them the things they can tolerate. Every cat is different. Content counts! If he enjoys it, give it!

 

[amandag1]

We had to say goodbye to another cat today, not the subject of this thread but a 15 year old gal. The vet said she'd never seen blood levels that high in her entire career. Talk of hospitalization, nasogastric tubes, numerous possible cancers. Exactly what we've been going through for a month. The boy's blood work has always been fine--except when he was malnourished--which is partially why I continue to fight for him. I would not put her through what he's going through even if I could handle it because it was much clearer that she had reached her end, as rapid and sudden as it was. I love and miss her.

Obviously very sad today but I have some good news, too. The boy ate a whole 2/5 of a can of paté in one sitting. It was Friskies, the McDonald's of cat food, but it was about 70 calories I bet. He would have eaten more but I'm scared he's going to throw it all up so I'm giving him some time to digest. That's on top of some dry food, a few bites of wet shreds (he mostly just licked all the gravy) and a salmon treat. He might be approaching close to 100 calories consumed today. He needs to be getting 180/day to maintain 9lbs. He also drank a decent amount after each meal.

He's only on the probiotic now. Due for a mirtazapine tomorrow afternoon but I'm just going to take it day by day and let him decide if I need to step in. No vomit or diarrhea yet, knock on wood. I weighed him before he ate his big wet meal and he was up an ounce.

Thank you for all the food suggestions, I've tried a few of those things but not all. Shopping trips are a bit hard right now but I stocked up on more Friskies flavors when I picked up stuff for the liver shake (still rejected but my garden will like it). I'd never get Friskies normally but he likes it the most out of the numerous foods I've offered. I'm honestly a little nervous about the recent chatter about it being dangerous/fatal but it's like well, my cat is already dying and he wants it, who am I to deny him his pleasures?

So sorry for your loss!

im so happy your kitty is eating! Definitely let him have what he’ll eat, it sounds like he is on the mend...

 

[DesperateMistrustful]

Due for a little thread update. Wednesday was okay for him, not as good as Tuesday. His appetite decreased but he asked me to refill his water bowl with no meal involved which was a great sign, he hasn't done that in weeks. He only received half a dose of probiotic because he didn't finish licking all the gravy.

I think the lack of a full probiotic is what led to a decline today because at 00:30 he vomited a large amount of undigested food and had a small amount of diarrhea. He might have had a solid bowel movement beforehand but I'm not sure if it belonged to him. He's down in weight after all of that.

Today he's turned off of the flavor he really liked since he threw it up, so I opened a brand new paté. He only took a few bites. I gave him until this afternoon to eat some more before giving up and crushing up a cerenia pill with water. He got ~3/4 of a dose and walked around with a giant trail of drool while smacking his lips, these horrible tasting medicines just make him feel more sick.

Last night I was up until dawn reading all about IBD. It's clear to me now that he's just extremely nauseated. I placed an order for slippery elm bark powder, S. boulardii and another probiotic for when proviable runs out. I'm really hoping it all works and he won't even know he's taking medicine.

 

[Furballsmom]

This post may be of additional use to you regarding IBD, if you haven't already seen the information and IBD-specific support groups;

chronic vomiting, no other symptoms in 10 year old cat

 

[DesperateMistrustful]

Yep, I was all over both of those sites linked. They seem very helpful but time will tell. The fact he's only vomiting late at night points towards IBD. I'll give him a snack a few hours after his last meal from now on and see if that helps. I think most diet changes will be impossible for my picky boy. Just getting his nausea/diarrhea under control should help his appetite and then I can see if he still loses weight, at least then I would know it's cancer. I tried to find bone-in meat to make bone broth but it all had horrifying stuff added to it, I don't think I can easily source anything clean during the pandemic.

The mention of caregiver fatigue struck me as well. I hadn't put a name to what I'm experiencing since I've only attributed it to human care until now. My spreadsheet to log his behavior/medications has grown large. I'm so mad that we didn't try treating IBD first, I'm so mad no one even mentioned it to me, I'm so mad they thought it had to be cancer because he's old, I'm so mad they all pushed me to do invasive surgery, I'm so mad that these so-called professionals failed him every step of the way and continue to try convincing me that more torture will help. If he does only have IBD we put him through a very traumatic experience for no reason, his arrhythmia is likely worse and the bypass has shortened his life. I'm so mad. I'm so sad.