Want To Make Cat Food For The First Time, Anyone Still Use Dr. Pierson's Recipe?

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SeanS

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Dark meat turkey pieces are more expensive than similar dark meat chicken. Because it is an excellent taurine-source, I justify the added expense (while not excluding dark meat chicken, which is a good source of taurine). All about finding balance.

The batch you made founds fine--aside from any remaining concerns about the bone percentages (and I would suggest that you re-approximate the math, as too much bone is problematic).

Ideally, I would not add water to a mix, as taurine is highly water soluble, and this is especially true when cells are ruptured by grinding. Always serve any "liquid" that seperates from the mix once it thaws.

The only other caution I'd add, it not to find one "recipe," but rather to use PMR ratios to diversify the diet as much as is practical for you achieve. Mix it up. Think how you can mimic "prey" in the overall diet, and that can mean having a rotation of different mixes that complement one another, without getting too crazy (or without the pressure of finding the one perfect formula).

Keep it fun.

Bill
Hello,

Okay, so I'll try to find turkey meat. Besides pork kidney and chicken liver. Any other organ meat you recommend?

Also any tips on getting a cat to want to eat raw? From what I read, a lot of cats take a while to eat raw.
 

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Mix it up.
A big yes to this! Even though I generally only use chicken, turkey, and pork, I'm always varying the proportions, cuts, and liver. Garnishes can help, too, things like some chopped gizzards or extra meat if there's something on hand... I only make cooked food but the same principle applies to both cooked and raw.

As for tips to get a cat to eat raw, I never had a problem with that, though I think the usual things for enticing a cat apply: Our cats will eat just about anything if we sprinkle a little freeze-dried chicken or turkey on it.
 

Box of Rain

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Hello,

Okay, so I'll try to find turkey meat. Besides pork kidney and chicken liver. Any other organ meat you recommend?

Also any tips on getting a cat to want to eat raw? From what I read, a lot of cats take a while to eat raw.
In my part of Los Angeles, I find beef kidney very easy to source (so it is a very regular part of the rotation). It is the main "other" that I rotate with liver (beef, chicken, and pork).

Covid undid my source for economical "sweetbreads" (which are pancreas and thymus glands) but you might have more luck.

Spleen is sometimes seen in markets as "Melts."

"Fries" (as in lamb fries, are testicles). Brains (sold in Mexican markets as "sesos").

I was fortunate that getting Desmond to go for raw was not an issue. I actually made a platter for him the day we brought him home, that had bits of the canned food he'd been getting, plus cooked pork, cooked chicken, raw pork, and raw chicken spread out. He ate them in reverse order.

After that initial experiment, it was PMR all the way (with the exception of a few items like seafood and egg whites that I generally serve cooked).

Desmond is a voracious eater. Loves his food. Has never rejected anything I've served him.

And he is in fabulous condition. Strong, happy, and healthy.

I have worked with people in the past (who mostly have had picky dogs--as opposed to cats--who were slow to eat raw chicken, and have helped get them over the hump by having them put a very light sear on the meat. Not enough to "cook it," but just enough to bring out "the nose" that come with lightly searing the skin or meat.

Bill
 

Box of Rain

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A big yes to this! Even though I generally only use chicken, turkey, and pork, I'm always varying the proportions, cuts, and liver. Garnishes can help, too, things like some chopped gizzards or extra meat if there's something on hand... I only make cooked food but the same principle applies to both cooked and raw.

As for tips to get a cat to eat raw, I never had a problem with that, though I think the usual things for enticing a cat apply: Our cats will eat just about anything if we sprinkle a little freeze-dried chicken or turkey on it.
The only item where Desmond has his limits is with cooked egg (such as an omelette or scrambled eggs). He loves the yokes, but with the whites mixed in he'd go for about half (of one egg).

I found that if I sprinkled shaved Katsuobushi (aka Bonito flakes) on top, he'd eat it all.

I was a little surprised to find I was not the only person who has made this discovery, as I believe it is one of the things included on the list of items here on the "how to get your cat to eat" article here on TCS.

And with you on the diversity. Whether cooked or raw, it is a good thing to mix it up. Good nutritionally for the cat and I'm sure it makes things more fun for them, while reducing the potential for developing food aversions and intolerances.

Some cats already have aversions, intolerances, and allergies, so those cases are expectations. Obviously. Otherwise, diversity is a good thing.

Bill
 
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SeanS

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In my part of Los Angeles, I find beef kidney very easy to source (so it is a very regular part of the rotation). It is the main "other" that I rotate with liver (beef, chicken, and pork).

Covid undid my source for economical "sweetbreads" (which are pancreas and thymus glands) but you might have more luck.

Spleen is sometimes seen in markets as "Melts."

"Fries" (as in lamb fries, are testicles). Brains (sold in Mexican markets as "sesos").

I was fortunate that getting Desmond to go for raw was not an issue. I actually made a platter for him the day we brought him home, that had bits of the canned food he'd been getting, plus cooked pork, cooked chicken, raw pork, and raw chicken spread out. He ate them in reverse order.

After that initial experiment, it was PMR all the way (with the exception of a few items like seafood and egg whites that I generally serve cooked).

Desmond is a voracious eater. Loves his food. Has never rejected anything I've served him.

And he is in fabulous condition. Strong, happy, and healthy.

I have worked with people in the past (who mostly have had picky dogs--as opposed to cats--who were slow to eat raw chicken, and have helped get them over the hump by having them put a very light sear on the meat. Not enough to "cook it," but just enough to bring out "the nose" that come with lightly searing the skin or meat.

Bill
Okay, sorry if I missed a link or something you said. So what exactly is PMR? I thought at first you were just feeding a whole animal to your cat? But that's not what it is?

So what is it called what I'm feeding my cat? Just regular raw?
 

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I was a little surprised to find I was not the only person who has made this discovery, as I believe it is one of the things included on the list of items here on the "how to get your cat to eat" article here on TCS.
Our Poppycat loved loved loved bonito :)👍
 

Box of Rain

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Okay, sorry if I missed a link or something you said. So what exactly is PMR? I thought at first you were just feeding a whole animal to your cat? But that's not what it is?

So what is it called what I'm feeding my cat? Just regular raw?
PMR is "prey model raw." It is also sometimes referred to "frankenprey," and the basic idea is to mimic the sort of diet a cat (or dog) might get from eating their natural mix of prey, by using sources of food that are all (or mostly) from the human food supply chain.

This is different that "whole prey" feeding, where one might feed a mouse or rat (for example) to a cat.

PMR attempts to "emulate" whole prey feeding as much as possible, using easier to procure items. Does that make sense?

For many PMR feeders, myself included, there is a desire to feed appropriate edible bone bone (with attached meat) that is not pre-ground, and that requires a little bit of a workout for the cat to gnaw, or tear, or chush, which helps maintain good dental health.

Pre-ground food mixes could still follow PMR "ratios," which for Cats are 84% "meat," 10% organs (half of that being liver, half "other") and 6% bone.

The thing about following PMR ratios, and having a diversified mix, is that if one does a deep-dive as "due diligence" and does nutritional analyses (using sources like the USDA Database) and compares the results with the nutritional standards established by the National Research Council (which are used by groups like AAFCO) one will find that a PMR based diet comes up as an optimal diet nutritionally.

Bill
 
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PMR is "prey model raw." It is also sometimes referred to "frankenprey," and the basic idea is to mimic the sort of diet a cat (or dog) might get from eating their natural mix of prey, by using sources of food that are all (or mostly) from the human food supply chain.

This is different that "whole prey" feeding, where one might feed a mouse or rat (for example) to a cat.

PMR attempts to "emulate" whole prey feeding as much as possible, using easier to procure items. Does that make sense?

For many PMR feeders, myself included, there is a desire to feed appropriate edible bone bone (with attached meat) that is not pre-ground, and that requires a little bit of a workout for the cat to gnaw, or tear, or chush, which helps maintain good dental health.

Pre-ground food mixes could still follow PMR "ratios," which for Cats are 84% "meat," 10% organs (half of that being liver, half "other") and 6% bone.

The thing about following PMR ratios, and having a diversified mix, is that if one does a deep-dive as "due diligence" and does nutritional analyses (using sources like the USDA Database) and compares the results with the nutritional standards established by the National Research Council (which are used by groups like AAFCO) one will find that a PMR based diet comes up as an optimal diet nutritionally.

Bill
So is the only difference what I'm doing and PMR, just that PMR is more chunks, and has a wider variety?
 

Box of Rain

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So is the only difference what I'm doing and PMR, just that PMR is more chunks, and has a wider variety?
I try not to get too hung up on terminology, especially when it divides people--and some raw feeders are prone to zealotry--but I would say you are aiming to use PMR ratios to create ground mixes. And that that will serve you (and your cat) very well.

It is never a good idea to make "the perfect the enemy of the good." I know that the way I feed using PMR is a compromise vs feeding substantial portions of mice or rats, but sourcing rodents is cost-prohibitive for me. So "next best."

Where the PMR goals may prove helpful to you is when you visit your local Asian (or other markets) and you find items that might fill-in "holes" of parts of the imaginary prey that you are attempting to emulate. Does that make sense?

We all have our limits of what's possible and what's available and how much we can store.

I encourage you to keep it fun. Maybe you find something fun to add to the mix that fits? Maybe life circumstances require that you keep things more basic. Either works.

A very basic and simple PMR ratio diet will give your cat a diet that very few felines are able to enjoy.

You will see the results for yourself.

Bill
 
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I try not to get too hung up on terminology, especially when it divides people--and some raw feeders are prone to zealotry--but I would say you are aiming to use PMR ratios to create ground mixes. And that that will serve you (and your cat) very well.

It is never a good idea to make "the perfect the enemy of the good." I know that the way I feed using PMR is a compromise vs feeding substantial portions of mice or rats, but sourcing rodents is cost-prohibitive for me. So "next best."

Where the PMR goals may prove helpful to you is when you visit your local Asian (or other markets) and you find items that might fill-in "holes" of parts of the imaginary prey that you are attempting to emulate. Does that make sense?

We all have our limits of what's possible and what's available and how much we can store.

I encourage you to keep it fun. Maybe you find something fun to add to the mix that fits? Maybe life circumstances require that you keep things more basic. Either works.

A very basic and simple PMR ratio diet will give your cat a diet that very few felines are able to enjoy.

You will see the results for yourself.

Bill
Okay thanks for all the help! If you don't mind me asking one last question. How do you recommend I heat up or unfreeze the food? Cause all the food is now frozen in the freezer.

I know most people prefer to let it thaw in the fridge, and rotate it that away. But I recently got an air fryer. And it has an oven feature that lets me heat the oven as low as 120 F. Could I just pop the raw food in the oven at 120 F for 10 minutes? Should warm it up a bit, without actually cooking it?
 
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@daftcat uses a version of sous vide to warm the food :)
What temperature do most people use? I have a sous vide as well, but feel like it be a much bigger hassle with that.
 

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Okay thanks for all the help! If you don't mind me asking one last question. How do you recommend I heat up or unfreeze the food? Cause all the food is now frozen in the freezer.

I know most people prefer to let it thaw in the fridge, and rotate it that away. But I recently got an air fryer. And it has an oven feature that lets me heat the oven as low as 120 F. Could I just pop the raw food in the oven at 120 F for 10 minutes? Should warm it up a bit, without actually cooking it?
I've cycled through various methods. Thawing in the fridge, warming in bags in hot water, actual sous vide, and the like. Each has pros and cons.

These days my method has evolved in a way that works for Demond and me, but might not be what I'd recommend to all. I break down things into serviceable pieces that I freze on trays and then put into a well labeled bag. Like with like.

When I make meals, I will cut off pieces from a variety of choices. Typically one or more "meats," an organ, and a bone-in source. Then I will cut it with a large chef's knife or cleaver and rubber mallet combo.

Then I will typically pour a small amount of hot water or homemade stock (made from the bones I save up for this purpose) and let it sit a minute. This totally works for Demond as he seems to enjoy the texture of his food when it is semi-thawed and makes it easy for me. Plus (in addition to the moisture rich food) this adds a little more hydration.

But I still mix it up. On very cold days (by LA standards), I'm more inclined to warm the food more. The cat is voracious no matter what.

And when I get fresh chicken (which is often), I will typically give him a small leg as his meal. It takes a lot of work on his part, but he stays at it until he strips the bones clean and then will slowly chew off just the perfect amount of bone (to my eye) off both ends of the leg bone.

Play around and see what method(s) work for you. I don't like having a mass of meat thawing in the fridge (if avoidable) just to avoid any potential cross contamination.

Bill
 

Box of Rain

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What temperature do most people use? I have a sous vide as well, but feel like it be a much bigger hassle with that.
Mice, rats, and humans have a very similar body temperature, so that's what I set as the target (even if the water-baths were too short for the entire meal to reach that point).

Bill
 

Box of Rain

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S SeanS

This is not model meal (or anything like it). Desmond had eaten a dark meat turkey and slivered turkey wings for breakfast.

This evening I broke down a pork roast (for my dog). There is typically one muscle that is extra dark (red) and that is a pretty reliable clue that that portion is extra taurine-rich. As taurine is not essential for canines (who, like humans can manufacture taurine themselves), I tend to separate out some for Desmond.

So this evening's meal was fresh pork, (from frozen) beef liver, and (from frozen) slivered turkey neck. Warmed and slightly re-hydrated with a spot of unsalted bone stock.

Just to give you an idea about what a meal around here might look like.

I'd call this a "non-recreational" meal, meaning no big challenges here. This got chomped up quickly.

Also a note: slivering bonely pieces like turkey necks is easier to do when they are frozen into manageable sections first. Then I use a cleaver and a mallet to cut it pretty finely. Most edible bone pieces that I use require less work on my part (Turkey necks are too big for cats otherwise), so not "typical" but not really unusual either.

meal.jpg


Bill
 
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