vomit and breathing odd - please advise

[lovesmekitties]

I've been feeding my 6 mo old kitten raw for about 2 months.  I'd been feeding Nature's Variety frozen raw but just recently switched to Primal (frozen raw).  Today I fed Stewie some of the Nature's Variety I had left over and 2 hours later he vomited yellow and slightly mucousy.  For a few seconds he kind of panted and has been making warbled sounds in his breathing.  Right now he's breathing with his mouth closed and the breathing sounds much better but he's still clearly not feeling well.  I warm their food in baggies in a bowl of hot water briefly so it's not served cold.  I was ready to dash off to the emergency vet clinic but my husband is hesitant due to the expense. Does anyone have any insight for me?

Thank you,

Jan

 

[vball91]

Sorry to hear your kitten isn't feeling well. I'm not sure that the vomiting was caused by the food. Two hours later and no food in the vomit sounds like something else. I am concerned about the breathing . Did it sound like something is maybe stuck in his throat? Being a curious kitten, is it possible he ate something he shouldn't have?

You said "their food." Do you have another kitty who was also fed the same food and is feeling fine?

 

[ldg]

I agree with vball91. :nod: If he threw up the food, then I would consider that something's amiss.

Every time one of my cats had any strange behavior when I was transitioning, I immediately thought to blame the problem on the new food. Yes, there was some vomiting (immediately after eating) when it was clear the problem was the food - but that was when I was introducing new proteins and going too quickly. Other than that, we had a lot of visits to the vet, and the problem wasn't ever the food - and many of the times, it wasn't even a problem. It's natural to worry - but it sure sounds to me like he's swallowed something that doesn't agree with him.

If he "ate" something he can't pass, he will not be able to keep any food down. At that point, yes, a trip to the vet is most certainly warranted.

 

[lovesmekitties]

Vball and LDG - thank you so much for your replies. I have 3 kittens and the other 2 eat the same food and are feeling fine.  Stewie has always made rumbly sounds with his breathing but it was much more noticeable after this happened.  It has calmed down now and he is sleeping.  I almost wonder if he was born with a respiratory problem (the vet thought he was fine, but he and his brother both make these breathing noises and had been treated for an upper respiratory infection before we adopted them) and perhaps he aspirated some of his food?  He is the apple of my eye and I feel so out of sorts that all is not well with him.  He is already scheduled for the vet on Tuesday anyway so I can follow up then, I just want to be sure he's okay until then.  Sounds like I can rule out the food itself.  I will keep an eye on him.  Would it help settle his tummy to give him some dry freeze-dried turkey to help soak up the bile?  

Thank you!

Jan

 

[lovesmekitties]

Oh I forgot to answer your question Vball - it's always possible he ingested something.  He's not as inclined to eat things at 6 mos. as my youngest 3mo. old JohnnyMac, but that was my concern too - is something lodged in there. 

 

[vball91]

The FD turkey to absorb bile and settle his tummy is a good idea. However, if he can't keep it down, you might want to consider fasting him overnight. If he projectile vomits or vomits up everything he eats then I think you need a vet visit sooner than Tuesday. Hopefully it won't come to that though. Many vibes for your kitty to feel better soon.

 

[ldg]

I'm in complete agreement. :nod:

...and that's one of the ways my vet always decided it wasn't the food. "Just this one cat is exhibiting the behavior?" "Yes." "Well then it isn't the food." :lol3: (Meaning in terms of something being wrong or off with the food. Vomiting right after a meal usually means there's something in the food that doesn't agree with kitty. In our home, red meat for Sheldon was a problem. Still is, in fact).

She doesn't know anything about feeding raw, and has no other clients (that she knows of) feeding her cats raw. She was open-minded to it - and I really appreciate her no-nonsense reaction(s) to it. :lol3:

 

[lovesmekitties]

I ended up taking him to the vet.  Turned out he was very constipated and they wanted to do an enema and flush him out, do bloodwork and give him an anti-nausea shot. It was going to be over $300.  We decided to give it one more day and see if he poops.  He only threw up once.  I'm real discouraged he's constipated since I've been feeding him raw.    Is there anything I can give him to help him poop?  I wish I'd thought to ask at the vet if there was a laxative or something.

 

[peaches08]

Mineral oil or unscented petroleum jelly might help help.

Watch him for dehydration and make sure he gets fluids.

 

[ldg]

Several of mine got constipated on Nature's Variety. They target a bone content that's a little high for some cats (15%). I "thinned" it out by adding a couple of meals a week of plain chicken breast or thigh.

I'm so sorry! Poor little fella. :heart2:

Yes, mineral oil might help. You can also try miralax if the mineral oil doesn't help quickly.

 

[lovesmekitties]

Thank you for being so supportive - wow 15% bone IS high!  I think I'm gonna toss what I have left.  Thank the Lord he pooped tonight and he's playing like his old self again!  I tried Miralax but he didn't eat much so don't know if it's what did it or not. I also realized I want to find a new vet.  He left the room saying he'd be right back and an assistant appeared with a print out of his assessment and the $328 of recommended procedures without any opportunity for us to ask him questions.  It's a Banfield Veterinary Hospital inside of a PetSmart and that's probably their profit model.  I'd like a more personalized service than that.  I'm still surprised they were going to give him an anti- nausea shot when he'd only vomited once.  Potentially expensive lesson learned that Nature's Variety is not good for my kitties.  Does anyone know how much percentage of bone content there is in Primal raw frozen?

 

[peaches08]

Have you thought about making your own cat food? Maybe use premix?

 

[ldg]

Primal targets about 8%. :nod: But if you haven't tossed the NV already, you don't need to. You can still use it. It's safe to provide up to 15% of the diet unbalanced. If you feed 3 meals a day, that's 21 meals a week, which means you can feed 2 - 3 meals a week as just plain meat. :nod:

Or as vball91 suggests, you can use Call of the Wild, TCfeline, or Alnutrin with calcium (though with this one you need to feed meat and liver) and provide your own meat (or meat and liver). :nod:

Bravo also makes HPP foods in their Balanced Blends, if that's the issue.

 

[ldg]

OR... just provide the Primal with only a few Nature's Variety meals a week. Look how long it took for the NV to cause the constipation from the higher bone content. If you don't use it exclusively, it won't be a problem.

 

[lovesmekitties]

Thank you - that was really helpful. I still have the NV. I also have a sample premix of TC Feline Plus I could add to homemade. I've been trying to figure out how to get my costs down and after figuring out using the TC and adding it to meat would be about the same, I decided it made sense to stay with the Primal. Feeding 2-3 meals a week unbalanced without the supplement would help. It costs me too much to buy meats from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore due to shipping. I've been unable to source anything close enough to me so overall using homemade hasn't proven economical. LDG, I know you've put a lot of research into this and done a lot of calculations - is there a more budget friendly option in the homemade category that I'm missing?

 

[ldg]

I'm sorry, I don't remember where you live.

For me, buying my own meat at the supermarket (especially when on sale) is the cheapest. You can invest in a grinder to make your own mixes - the payback for peaches08 was 8 months. But that's a grinder that does bone. You can get a grinder that does just meat, should be cheaper, and then use eggshell or bone meal as the calcium source. You can use one of the ground recipes to make sure they're getting everything: either the one at Catinfo.org or CatNutrition.org (links are in the Raw Feeding Resource thread, stickied at the top of the forum).

If you don't want to invest in a grinder, you can just feed PMR. To ensure it's balanced, you can either add Alnutrin (with or without calcium) if your cats will eat liver and/or kidney. I feed mostly "boneless" PMR, using eggshell or freeze-dried bone for the calcium. The freeze-dried bone is expensive, so using just eggshell would bring the cost down.

If they eat liver AND kidney (each would be 5% of the total amount of food eaten - most balance over a week; I balance organs daily), you can just feed them some sardines and egg yolks weekly to balance the diet.

If you want to be ULTRA sure they're getting everything as per AAFCO, you can use the homemade vitamin mix I make and add that (but it doesn't take the place of organ(s), sardines and egg yolks - those still all have to be fed). It takes a very small amount per 4 ounces of food. I give it once a day: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264199/homemade-supplement-for-raw

We can help figure any of these out.

FYI - there's also ways of working around the "my cat won't eat any organ" problem (though it's really best to keep at it and give it time before giving up). One of mine will NOT eat kidney - I just give her 10% liver instead of 5% liver and 5% kidney. I have one cat that cannot keep down fresh liver OR kidney - though he wont' even eat the fresh kidney any longer, no matter what I do to try. So I give him freeze dried liver at 10% equivalent to fresh.

Your kitties are 6 months old - so they've still got some growing to do, but they're over those critical first few months. That means everything doesn't have to be perfect right out of the starting gate, whatever you decide to do.

 

[lovesmekitties]

Thank you for being so gracious to help me with it.  What product do you use for freeze dried bone?

Jan

 

[ldg]

There is only one product in the U.S. It is by NOW, and it is the supplement called "calcium hydroxyapatite.". With 8 cats, it is too expensive for me to use exclusively. So I use eggshell for two weeks, then the MCHA (microcrystalline hydroxyapatite) by NOW for two weeks.

The information about how much of each to use.is in this thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263426/...hydroxyapatite-to-balance-meat-or-meat-organs

Of course, you can feed traditional PMR, and use bone-in meals. The eggshell or MCHA can be used during the transition until your cat is eating enough bone.

 

[peaches08]

Just to clarify, my investment in the grinder AND upright freezer paid for themselves in about 8 months. Having a deep freezer really helps because of buying meat on sale and freezing it until I need to make food.

 

[lovesmekitties]

Thank you for the great ideas!