Vitamin B Complex

[Jazzmin]

Hello,

I'm using the recipe from feline nutrition.org to make homemade cat food. I've been having trouble finding vitamin B complex in a form where I can just use the powder. Anyways I got a pack today from a health food store and now I'm wondering what exactly should be included in the complex. Really don't know much about vitamens so hoping you guys can help me out. It says it is sweetened with xylitol. I will inlclude a picture of the box and the ingredients. Thanks.

 

[LTS3]

Xylitol is a big no no for cats because it can cause seizures and liver failure

FelineNutrition.org has this about vitamin B: Taking the Complexity Out of B Vitamins - Feline Nutrition

You can buy this vitamin B product for pets: Vitamin B Complex for Pets (2.1 oz. per Container): 1 Container - Mercola eCommerce

Dr. L isa of Catinfo.org uses this vitamin B complex in her raw diets: Source Naturals, B-50 Complex, 50 mg, 100 Tablets She says this about why she uses tablets instead of capsules and how to use them: I prefer purchasing B-Complex tablets instead of capsules since the powder inside the capsules often gets ‘gummy’ and will not pour out. The tablets are more stable and last longer. I have thrown out a lot of gummy B-Complex capsules which is wasteful. If using tablets, dissolve them in the water after crushing in a baggie with a hammer or using a mortar and pestle to expedite the dissolution.

 

[orange&white]

That product also has citric acid (Vitamin C) which cats don't need. I had to scour the bottle labels to find a B-Complex for my cats which did not have Vitamin C or flavors/sweetener.

This is probably not much help (unless you're in Texas) because I bought a brand from a regional store, but this is the 50mg B-Complex I purchased:

Central Market B Complex 50 mg

Biotin 50mg 17%
Riboflavin 50mcg 2941%
Folic Acid 400mcg 100%
Inositol 50mg *
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 50mg 250%
Thiamin (as Thiamin Mononitrate) 50mg 3333%
Vitamin B12 (as Cobalamin) 50mcg 833%
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 50mg 500%
Choline (as Choline Bitarate) 50mg *
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCI) 50mg 2500%

Other Ingredients: Capsule (Gelatin); Silicon Dioxide, Magnesium Stearate (Vegetable Source), Cellulose

---

I haven't had any trouble with these capsules getting gummy. The Silicon Dioxide and maybe the Cellulose are there to keep the powder dry (guessing on that).

 

[mschauer]

Hello,

I'm using the recipe from feline nutrition.org to make homemade cat food. I've been having trouble finding vitamin B complex in a form where I can just use the powder. Anyways I got a pack today from a health food store and now I'm wondering what exactly should be included in the complex. Really don't know much about vitamens so hoping you guys can help me out. It says it is sweetened with xylitol. I will include a picture of the box and the ingredients. Thanks.

When using a recipe that calls for B-Complex you should select a product that closely matches the B vitamin quantities the recipe calls for. And the recipe should specify a particular B-Complex product that matches the requirements of the recipe. Not all B-Complex products provide the same amount of the various B vitamins.

So, since the catinfo.org recipe uses Source Naturals B-Complex you should find a product that provides the B vitamins in near to the same quantities as that product. Having said that, I know Dr. P isn't very precise with her recipe formulation and may well say that any B-Complex will do.

I would use an actual B-Complex product though as opposed to the one you posted which doesn't contain all the B vitamins a complex would. It doesn't contain choline for instance.

 

[mschauer]

Xylitol is a big no no for cats because it can cause seizures and liver failure

That doesn't seem to be the case. According to this:

Ask a Vet: Is Sugarless Gum Containing Xylitol Toxic to Cats? | Catster

it had been assumed that since dogs are sensitive to xylitol that cats would be also and probably more so but that is now known to not be the case. But, as the link says, best not to give it to a cat anyway.

 

[orange&white]

It really is hard to find a B-Complex without "other stuff" in it. Today, I stopped at a different location of the same store chain and thought I'd pick up a new bottle of the Central Market brand I've been using. That store did not stock the CM brand. I looked at the store brand and all the other brands they carried. They didn't have any product I would buy for my cats.

The "regular" store brand was the same as the Central Market, except the label had 50mg of PABA in it. From what I read, PABA shouldn't be given to cats (or dogs). The VitaminShoppe's house brand also has all the same B's as Central Market, but with the PABA. Wonder what the heck is up with that? Even human's have been skittish about ingesting PABA for the last few years. Apparently, it binds to folates and also renders antibiotics ineffective if you need them.

 

[mschauer]

Can you post links to the information about PABA? I can't find anything that leads me to believe there is concern about giving it to cats.

 

[orange&white]

Can you post links to the information about PABA? I can't find anything that leads me to believe there is concern about giving it to cats.

You are correct about having difficulty finding information about oral use of PABA and cats. Topical sunscreen with PABA is not recommended because of toxicity issues.

I spent the evening, about 3 hours, digging down and finally found a bit of more from technical research studies. I found enough to convince me not to buy a B-Complex with PABA since there are brands without it. Sorry, I didn't bookmark any links.

Some issues with PABA:
* Accumulates in the kidneys
* Can cause liver and blood problems
* Intolerance/allergy to PABA can cause upset stomach, vomiting, diarrhea, and loss of appetite

Since it is not considered an essential nutrient and has no minimum nutritional requirement, I think "zero" PABA sounds good. That was my conclusion anyway.

I did find a PABA-free B-Complex product which is available nationally. It looks to be the same as the regional brand I'm using. (Nature's Way brand B-Complex 50)

 

[mschauer]

I suspect the issues you note are the result of gross over use. Remember PABA is just vitamin B6. That it "accumulates in the kidneys" just means it is one of the fat soluble vitamins. Like all fat soluble vitamins it is stored in body tissues. Also as with all fat soluble vitamins, which includes vitamins A,D and E, consuming too much can cause a negative reaction. Far too much has to be consumed to see those reactions however. Using a B-Complex vitamin as instructed won't cause over consumption.

In the absence of any evidence that it can harm a cat I feel comfortable with a B-Complex product that contains B6. Of course everyone can make their own decision.

 

[orange&white]

I suspect the issues you note are the result of gross over use. Remember PABA is just vitamin B6. That it "accumulates in the kidneys" just means it is one of the fat soluble vitamins. Like all fat soluble vitamins it is stored in body tissues. Also as with all fat soluble vitamins, which includes vitamins A,D and E, consuming too much can cause a negative reaction. Far too much has to be consumed to see those reactions however. Using a B-Complex vitamin as instructed won't cause over consumption.

In the absence of any evidence that it can harm a cat I feel comfortable with a B-Complex product that contains B6. Of course everyone can make their own decision.

All water-soluble vitamins which don't have another "home" get thrown into the B-vitamin class, which is why PABA got tossed into that bucket.

There is already B-6 in all the B-Complex vitamin mixes, with or without PABA.

I suppose even with many debates on elements and details of a raw diet, we all agree that everyone should do their own research independently, and then decide what goes into their cat(s).

 

[mschauer]

My apologises. PABA IS NOT B6. I should know better than to trust my memory.

But PABA is a naturally occurring nutrient found in liver, whole grains, mushrooms, etc. It is a precursor to folic acid (B9) which is how I got my facts confused.

But none the less in the absence of any evidence that it is harmful when included in a B-Complex product I have no concerns about it. B-Complex products containing PABA are commonly used in home-made raw foods, including the one Dr Pierson (of catinfo.net) has been using for many years.

 

[orange&white]

Having said that, I know Dr. P isn't very precise with her recipe formulation and may well say that any B-Complex will do.

I did notice that the brand Dr. Pierson (for whom I have a great deal of respect) uses contains 30mg PABA.

Still, PABA is not a "true" vitamin and supplementing has no added nutritional benefit as far as I can tell. Since it is naturally occurring in liver, I'm not comfortable adding more of it daily as a processed supplement. There are zero know cases of "PABA deficiency". We don't know how much is too much, and kidney problems don't occur overnight. As we see with processed foods (particularly kibble) kidney issues can take years to develop. I'm not taking chances if I don't have to.

Perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but picking and choosing the ingredients in our pets' food is one of the beauties of feeding homemade.

 

[mschauer]

True, there is no known benefit to PABA but that doesn't mean there isn't any. There is a lot we don't know about how nutrients are used by the body. One of the goals of making our home-made foods is to recreate a cats "natural diet" and PABA is a part of a cats natural diet since it is found in the liver of prey animals.

I wouldn't argue though that using a B-Complex product without PABA could cause any problem. I don't know of any evidence of that. Just as I know of no evidence to support a claim that PABA shouldn't be given to cats or dogs.

 

[orange&white]

If it were up to me, I would choose a B-Complex without Choline (which cats also get plenty of naturally in liver and egg yolk), and Inositol, which is another "fake vitamin" additive like PABA where the body can manufacture what it needs. Unfortunately, there is no product I've found that excludes Choline and Inositol. But at least those two are truly water soluble, and not known to accumulate in the kidneys.

 

[mschauer]

Why don't you just buy individual vitamin B supplements? Avoiding the things you don't want would be much easier that way.

 

[orange&white]

I can imagine the cats rebelling if I tried to add 8 capsules of vitamins instead of 1 capsule of B-Complex. The B's apparently taste horrible to cats , unlike Taurine which is odorless and tasteless. As mentioned, excess Choline and Inositol apparently do not build up in the system the same way excess PABA does. It's a compromise for sure.

 

[valentine319]

Sunscreen for Pets | Wags and Whiskers

Taking the Complexity Out of B Vitamins - Feline Nutrition

Annoying that even Now has 10 mg Choline, Inositol and PABA.

It's annoying how variable each b complex is.

 

[orange&white]

Sunscreen for Pets | Wags and Whiskers

Taking the Complexity Out of B Vitamins - Feline Nutrition

Annoying that even Now has 10 mg Choline, Inositol and PABA.

Yes, it is annoying.

Thanks for the article! Three hours of research, and I missed that very simple, straightforward piece at feline-nutrition.org.

Also, noted that I have been using on 50mg capsule per 1.5 pounds of food mix and that article suggests using 25mg per 5 pounds of food. I may be using approx. 6x more B supplement than is really necessary.

 

[valentine319]

Now vitamin has 10 each of Paba, choline and inosol but until I find something better I'm not switching. Wow there's so much to look through.

 

[orange&white]

Now vitamin has 10 each of Paba, choline and inosol but until I find something better I'm not switching. Wow there's so much to look through.

Yeah, I really hate anything that's "not food". Anything in little capsules makes me nervous.

PABA has been banned or found unsafe in Canada and by the European Union. PABA - Safe Cosmetics Of course, our FDA always protects manufacturers and industry over consumers.

10mg in the NOW brand is about the lowest I've seen (except the 2 brands with zero PABA additive). I would probably use up what you have on hand and then switch, as you said.