LeAnn, I would appreciate reading what info the vet provides, to further understand the finer points. If you can, scan and share it with us when you have a moment. Thanks!
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Vet says raw is bad
- Thread starter leann baker
- Start Date
My previous vet didn't even remember my cats' gender.
I think owners know more about their cats than most vets. Vets wouldn't know how my cats do after eating certain food, if they look lethargic or energetic. They wouldn't pick up "something is off" feeling like owners do. I've had several occasions that visits to vet made my cats worse, and I had to do some web research to find out what worked better. I also checked some vet schools' required courses and some don't even have classes on nutrition.
I think owners know more about their cats than most vets. Vets wouldn't know how my cats do after eating certain food, if they look lethargic or energetic. They wouldn't pick up "something is off" feeling like owners do. I've had several occasions that visits to vet made my cats worse, and I had to do some web research to find out what worked better. I also checked some vet schools' required courses and some don't even have classes on nutrition.
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The concern with feeding raw has to do with how food is processed... in the wild a cat makes a kill and consumes it immediately. Wolves live in a cold environment and can feast on the same kill for days with no ill effects. Of course when temperatures are lower than refrigerator temperatures, there is little spoilage...
The problem is with factory farming. Chickens living on top of and pooping on other chickens. Chickens being given massive amounts of antibiotics to keep them healthy in such a contaminated environment. Obviously using massive amounts of antibiotics leads to resistant bacteria.... then those chickens are slaughtered. By the time meat reaches the consumer it is massively contaminated with all sorts of bacteria.
http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/blogs/u-s-meat-poultry-widely-contaminated-with-staph-bacteria/
Vets are required to study farm animals. This includes a tour of slaughter facilities, a tour of all the different factory farms.... the different ways by which it is legal to kill food animals etc. At least my college did that. I very promptly became a vegetarian. I saw pigs being kept in 4 by 4 foot rooms with barely room to turn around. Did you know they cut off their teeth and tails? To keep them from biting each other or chewing off their tails?
It is so easy for meat to be contaminated at the slaughterhouse. Given the conditions of farming and slaughter, I refuse to feed raw. If I had to feed raw I would buy straight from a hunter (or neighbor who has free range chicken). Supermarket meat is too contaminated.
Kidney failure is another concern. It is absolutely a horrible way for an animal to die.... and there is nothing the vet can do especially in acute cases.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/p...ld-be-cause-of-dead-dogs-scientist-warns.html
Of course it not been definitely proven that it was raw meat. But it is enough to make vets wary.
I happened to be unlucky enough to catch a foodborne illness which paralyzed my stomach. It took over four years for me to recover... the cdc estimates one out of six people will get food poisoning each year... contaminated meat is a problem for everyone. But the best way to avoid getting sick is to cook food to the right temperature.
Some people feed raw with no issues. But it all depends on the animals immune system and what strain of bacteria they are exposed to. If you are unlucky enough to get a really bad strain.... it is a roll of the dice. If you feed commercial foods there are risks too.
The best thing one can do is cook the meat and add back those vitamins which are heat sensitive.
If I had to guess why my stomach was paralyzed... I would guess it was something like c. Botulinum which causes gastrointestinal paralysis in horses, dogs and cats... supposedly people don't get it. All the doctors said was I was exposed to some bacteria or virus. They don't know what.
Vets deal with pets with gastroenteritis all the time. It isn't a lack of education which makes them avoid raw. When a person has to study every bacterial disease and see what happens to an animal who is sick. I think it makes them extra cautious.
Why take the risk if you can kill the bacteria by cooking the food?
The problem is with factory farming. Chickens living on top of and pooping on other chickens. Chickens being given massive amounts of antibiotics to keep them healthy in such a contaminated environment. Obviously using massive amounts of antibiotics leads to resistant bacteria.... then those chickens are slaughtered. By the time meat reaches the consumer it is massively contaminated with all sorts of bacteria.
http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/blogs/u-s-meat-poultry-widely-contaminated-with-staph-bacteria/
Vets are required to study farm animals. This includes a tour of slaughter facilities, a tour of all the different factory farms.... the different ways by which it is legal to kill food animals etc. At least my college did that. I very promptly became a vegetarian. I saw pigs being kept in 4 by 4 foot rooms with barely room to turn around. Did you know they cut off their teeth and tails? To keep them from biting each other or chewing off their tails?
It is so easy for meat to be contaminated at the slaughterhouse. Given the conditions of farming and slaughter, I refuse to feed raw. If I had to feed raw I would buy straight from a hunter (or neighbor who has free range chicken). Supermarket meat is too contaminated.
Kidney failure is another concern. It is absolutely a horrible way for an animal to die.... and there is nothing the vet can do especially in acute cases.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/p...ld-be-cause-of-dead-dogs-scientist-warns.html
Of course it not been definitely proven that it was raw meat. But it is enough to make vets wary.
I happened to be unlucky enough to catch a foodborne illness which paralyzed my stomach. It took over four years for me to recover... the cdc estimates one out of six people will get food poisoning each year... contaminated meat is a problem for everyone. But the best way to avoid getting sick is to cook food to the right temperature.
Some people feed raw with no issues. But it all depends on the animals immune system and what strain of bacteria they are exposed to. If you are unlucky enough to get a really bad strain.... it is a roll of the dice. If you feed commercial foods there are risks too.
The best thing one can do is cook the meat and add back those vitamins which are heat sensitive.
If I had to guess why my stomach was paralyzed... I would guess it was something like c. Botulinum which causes gastrointestinal paralysis in horses, dogs and cats... supposedly people don't get it. All the doctors said was I was exposed to some bacteria or virus. They don't know what.
Vets deal with pets with gastroenteritis all the time. It isn't a lack of education which makes them avoid raw. When a person has to study every bacterial disease and see what happens to an animal who is sick. I think it makes them extra cautious.
Why take the risk if you can kill the bacteria by cooking the food?
The big difference being.... A carnivore's system is specifically designed to handle bacteria.
Drives me crazy when people continue to draw parallels between what a human can manage and what a carnivore can manage, when there is no comparison.
Carnivores can handle a higher bacterial load limit than humans.
Yes, there is still a limit, but it is higher than you think. Still, most experienced raw feeders will take steps to control the bacterial load; freeze ground immediately, use whole chunks, keep meat clean, use freshest meat possible, etc.,.
Furthermore, considering how many pets have gotten sick by the bacterial load in commercial kibble, and considering how few actually get the same illnesses from raw... I'd say the risk with kibble is much higher than it is with raw.
For those who have big scary qualms about feeding raw, or for pets who may have compromised immune systems, there are plenty of other threads here addressing how to properly balance and feed a home cooked diet.
Drives me crazy when people continue to draw parallels between what a human can manage and what a carnivore can manage, when there is no comparison.
Carnivores can handle a higher bacterial load limit than humans.
Yes, there is still a limit, but it is higher than you think. Still, most experienced raw feeders will take steps to control the bacterial load; freeze ground immediately, use whole chunks, keep meat clean, use freshest meat possible, etc.,.
Furthermore, considering how many pets have gotten sick by the bacterial load in commercial kibble, and considering how few actually get the same illnesses from raw... I'd say the risk with kibble is much higher than it is with raw.
For those who have big scary qualms about feeding raw, or for pets who may have compromised immune systems, there are plenty of other threads here addressing how to properly balance and feed a home cooked diet.
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Thank you for all your posts! I agree, our old vet was a Royal Cannin pusher and to come to find out its over priced for what you get. Now we are on a mad hunt to find "heathlier options" for our cat and feel like complete idiots for over posting in forums or over asking to find the right food. It is hard finding a vet to provide a what they consider a "perfect guaranteed analysis" and not a food companies opinion.
There is no reason to feel like idiots.. The Pet Food Industry is a BILLION DOLLAR machine. They have plenty of money to spend on marketing and indoctrination. Most of us were there at one time.
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Considering the quality of meat that most commercial pet food companies purchase for food making, that's why so many of us turned to grocery store meats to feed our pets. It's worth noting that many small farmers feed the same feeds (complete with antibiotics) to their animals, although I will agree that the living conditions are usually better as far as more room, etc.
That's a shame about the stomach paralyzation (gastroparesis?). If it was gastroparesis, it is often idiopathic. I've had food poisoning before, but the worst was from cooked crayfish. I've never had it from raw meats (raw sushi/sashimi, tartare, ceviche), but I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the quality of the meat and the preparation of it such as freezing in the case of sushi/sashimi.
The kidney failure article brought up a good point: improvements in America's slaughterhouses has greatly reduced Alabama Rot and other terrible food-borne illnesses. Actually, most food-borne illness risks of late have been associated with produce rather than meat. These of course being produce that is fed raw such as bagged salads, spinach, and bean sprouts.
What I don't get about vet schools, and maybe I'm mistaken, is why they aren't taking a deeper look into the foods they're pushing. When are they going to let go of the "dry kibble cleans teeth" myth? How about the effects of a dry diet on kidneys? Possibly other parts such as the cardiovascular system and hormones since it's so closely intertwined with the renal system? Heck, even reminding owners not to buy the biggest bag of dry food they can and then storing it for months in room temps would help against bacterial overgrowth. But again, I'm sure there are more cases of cats being able to defend themselves against the bacterial overgrowth of kibble, just like raw fed cats, rather than cases of sick cats. The one "assumption" I'll make is that most people that bother to feed a higher quality diet, even a higher quality kibble diet, is probably more apt to take their cats to the vet when something goes wrong to begin with. Seriously, we ALL know the cheap feeders that simply refuse to recognize problems in their animals. I'm not accusing people here of that, just saying we all know more of those types than we do the types here at TCS that are making a genuine effort at good care for their animals, regardless of opinions of kibble vs wet vs raw vs whatever.
And what do you think goes into commercial pet foods? The garbage that can't be used from humans in that process - and it is then so highly processed, the nutrition (via supplements) has to be added back to it. I'd rather trust the immune system of my cats and feed fresh food.
:dk:
THAT is a different issue, and one of personal choice. I'm rather lazy, and prefer not to cook for 10 cats. And given they've never gotten sick from the raw food.... not sure why I should bother. And those that want to feed real bone, well, that can't be fed cooked, so that adds even more work to the process.
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If you have Gastropariasis my sympathies go out to you. My son has that and it changes your life. He can only eat certain foods and never ore than 2 ounces at a time.The first time he was hospitalized for 12 days it is hard on a 24 year old.
