vet getting kickbacks?

[Katdog]

hi there

does anyone know for certain that vets get kickbacks on certain types of food or pet insurance they push? I've read some stories on here that are awfully concerning, and I too have had my vet be very insistent on a prescription diet despite the dermatologist vet begging to differ. ultimately I went with the Derm recommendation cause well, they're the specialist, they would know better/more if its in their "speciality" (plus he said some stuff where the internet was able to back him up, but not so much what my PCP vet). I'm mostly asking out of curiosity, and to know when/if to proceed with caution when I'm getting "vet recommendations".

 

[Beholder]

Well, I am not a vet, so there is no way I could say for certain I know anything. What I do know is what I have read online from holistic vets as well as students still studying the field. They most certainly do get kickbacks...why else should they bother filling up so much room in their offices with such types of foods, selling through online stores, and offering discount codes? Why are they always the same few brands (Hills, Royal Canon, Purina...) when those same brands have some of the lowest scores on independent review sites like catfooddb--that base their reviews from ingredients and nutrition content. From what I have heard others say, vets are given very little nutritional information in school and in addition to this, they are encouraged (if not incentivized) to go to seminars by these pet food suppliers. This makes it easier for the supplier to ensure their product will be peddled early on. Another thing--these big companies are the only ones with massive studies backing their foods up. Does this mean their food is better or superior to everything else? No. But there is also not a lot of data from other companies because they don't have the ability to fund such large studies. Hills is owned by Colgate-Palmolive, Purina is owned by Nestle and Royal Canon is owned by Mars, just to give an example of their buying power.

I would like to add that this isn't just the case with the pet food industry, but American dietary recommendations as well. America (recently revised just this last year) has recommended dairy products as an essential source of calcium and protein with full knowledge that over 50% of people are lactose intolerant. Why would they recommend a food so many people have a negative reaction to? People from the dairy industry funded the my plate/food pyramid/etc. to ensure their products would be there, similarly to these pet food brands.

Anyway, as for how much these vets make? Again I am not a vet, but after a quick google search I've found that it may be upwards to 40%. Does this mean the vets are malicious? No, not in my opinion. I think when you've been shown so much data regarding one topic (like Hills etc. cat food) and no data rewarding another (like raw food or tiki cat for example) you would be inclined to trust the studies. Unfortunately, as I mentioned previously, these smaller pet food companies (as well as raw feeders) just don't have the funding to do their own studies. As scientists vets will go off of the only science provided to them, which is by these big brands.

As for pet insurance, I don't personally know a lot about the topic but I wouldn't doubt that they receive something for it. Idk why else every time I go to any vet in my area I'm given 3 pamphlets, one for food, one for insurance, and one for a credit card/pet payment plan.

 

[Neko-chan's mama]

I don't know if this is true with vets, but from a non-fiction book I read, formula, disposable diaper companies, and pediatric medicine is given freely to pediatricians and nurses. Formula companies also frequently host nursing and medical conferences. Even companies that don't give things gratis will give pamphlets and other literature that vets and other doctors will place in the waiting room and exam rooms. The theory is that if it's in a vet/doctor's office, it's safe. Your best bet is to do your own research and make an educated decision.

 

[fionasmom]

Huge lobbies for the beef and dairy industry....and I will get off of that soapbox now since I am vegan anyway.

As for doctors and vets.....I agree that vets are not usually trained in nutrition and neither are doctors unless they choose to be. One of my doctors has a functional and integrative practice...now she is an MD graduate of USC and a very good doctor...but she does sell a lot of supplements out of her office. She has never pushed me to buy them from her and I don't take many actual supplements and it has never seemed to bother her one bit that I don't purchase from her. In some cases though, I have to add, she has had access to purer more carefully sourced supplements or has known the fine points about what will work and what won't. I don't know that it even bothers me if she gets something back from those companies.

Isn't MyPlate just a little questionable now that you bring it up?

 

[Maurey]

I won’t repeat what’s been said above, as I pretty much agree with all of it :>

I’d also like to bring up that WSAVA, which is the organisation that formulates the world’s veterinary guidelines for food (as well as which foods are generally shoved at you by your vet lmao) are HEAVILY sponsored by the pet food brands they promote and showcase as gold standard, as seen on their own website. Conflict of interest? What conflict of interest?/s
WSAVA is also the organisation that demonises “boutique” pet foods (I.e. the stuff that’s actually formulated to fit the needs of the animal, and actually fulfilling the protein requirements cats need. I’ve seen a vet food intended for cats with 85% carbs! 85! And it wasn’t even one meant as a temporary to assist with gastric upset, and as a constant hydrolysed diet for cats with IBD and allergies :/ ) and considers the tag ”human grade” to be essentially unrealistic bullshit, because of course nobody would do that for pet food/would be able to back up their product is human grade They also screw the statistics and science surrounding raw feeding, but that’s a whole other story.

Regarding pet insurance, yes, vets will generally get a cut from pet insurance companies, but also it’s in their best interest to promote actually good insurance if you ask them for advice on which service to go with. All pet insurance companies will have their moments but as a whole, pet insurance is def worth having if it’s the norm where you live. Itll give you peace of mind, and may save you money in the long term.

 

[Willowy]

I don't think "kickback" is quite the right word. If they sell food or supplements, they get the same kind of profit margin as any store that sells pet food or supplements. And, yes, medical professionals do get a lot of free samples (I used to babysit for a doctor's kids and they had SO MANY toys/pens/etc. with drug names on them!).

As for insurance, I don't know if they get any commissions for selling it, but I do know vets like pet insurance because people will spend more on their pet if they have it.

 

[Ellis75]

Vet tech and vet student here. Vets don't get kickbacks from Hills, RC, etc. That's a huge rumor/misconception that's been going for a few years now, but no vet I've ever known or worked with has gotten bonuses or anything from those food companies. They might make a small profit off of selling it in their clinics, sure, but that's the same kind of markup price you would see at a grocery store. We get discounts on food from those companies for our own pets, but that's about it. Without getting too far into it or wanting to debate anyone about nutrition, they sell those foods because those are the ones they have the most faith in, not for any ulterior motives.

 

[Beholder]

Huge lobbies for the beef and dairy industry....and I will get off of that soapbox now since I am vegan anyway.

As for doctors and vets.....I agree that vets are not usually trained in nutrition and neither are doctors unless they choose to be. One of my doctors has a functional and integrative practice...now she is an MD graduate of USC and a very good doctor...but she does sell a lot of supplements out of her office. She has never pushed me to buy them from her and I don't take many actual supplements and it has never seemed to bother her one bit that I don't purchase from her. In some cases though, I have to add, she has had access to purer more carefully sourced supplements or has known the fine points about what will work and what won't. I don't know that it even bothers me if she gets something back from those companies.

Isn't MyPlate just a little questionable now that you bring it up?

Myplate is extremely questionable, that's why I brought it up. This is created by the USDA and given to Americas as a recommended diet to consume yet it's funded by the meat/dairy industry. In addition, most of the studies that they cite were directly funded by the meat/dairy industry as well as companies like nestle.

 

[Beholder]

Vet tech and vet student here. Vets don't get kickbacks from Hills, RC, etc. That's a huge rumor/misconception that's been going for a few years now, but no vet I've ever known or worked with has gotten bonuses or anything from those food companies. They might make a small profit off of selling it in their clinics, sure, but that's the same kind of markup price you would see at a grocery store. We get discounts on food from those companies for our own pets, but that's about it. Without getting too far into it or wanting to debate anyone about nutrition, they sell those foods because those are the ones they have the most faith in, not for any ulterior motives.

This is pretty much exactly what I said, I just phrased it a bit differently. I completely agree with you that "kickbacks" may not be the best word and that vets choose these brands because they believe in them and would never sell them with malicious intent. It makes sense to me that they would push foods that have the most scientific data proving them effective, even if I don't agree.

 

[Maurey]

Myplate is extremely questionable, that's why I brought it up. This is created by the USDA and given to Americas as a recommended diet to consume yet it's funded by the meat/dairy industry. In addition, most of the studies that they cite were directly funded by the meat/dairy industry as well as companies like nestle.

Pretty much the same thing in the world of pet food! To expand a bit on what I mentioned about WSAVA, they‘re largely funded by the big pet food conglomerations, and, if memory serves, most of those companies will have members on WSAVA’s board. As they’re the big players in the pet food industry, they have all the money in the world to fund research about how their cheap-to-make-formulationa (that by the end will commonly smell and taste so little like meat that that it needs to be artificially added back in with flavouring) are ideal and superior to boutique foods that are more premium. Why would they ever change their formulations when their current tactics work.

I firmly believe the advent of “boutique foods” has a lot to do with both the advent of the internet, and the advent of Gen Y and Zs to the world of pet ownership. Many of us don’t want, or can’t afford children, so we put all that care into our pets. I spent over 5 years doing research about nutrition and general cat care before getting my cat, and so do a lot of people my age, though perhaps not to such extremes.
I think some of the big conglomerates have noticed the trend of ”new wave pet owners” (if you will) pushing back against poorly formulated vet foods, and outright refusing to buy them — granted it’s a small pool, but I know of no people my age who feed any of the vet-approved brands, and all that can afford it feed wet-only or raw.
anyway, recently you do see higher end pet food with higher protein content and less fillers and carbs being sold by thone large corporations. Granted, it’s generally less good, and more expensive than alternatives, from what I’ve seen, but hey, if this trend continues they’ll foresee enough profit in the “boutique pet food” market to invest in proving that, in fact, the high protein, low carb wet foods ARE optimal for your obligate carnivores. Who’d’a thunk.

 

[Beholder]

Pretty much the same thing in the world of pet food! To expand a bit on what I mentioned about WSAVA, they‘re largely funded by the big pet food conglomerations, and, if memory serves, most of those companies will have members on WSAVA’s board. As they’re the big players in the pet food industry, they have all the money in the world to fund research about how their cheap-to-make-formulationa (that by the end will commonly smell and taste so little like meat that that it needs to be artificially added back in with flavouring) are ideal and superior to boutique foods that are more premium. Why would they ever change their formulations when their current tactics work.

I firmly believe the advent of “boutique foods” has a lot to do with both the advent of the internet, and the advent of Gen Y and Zs to the world of pet ownership. Many of us don’t want, or can’t afford children, so we put all that care into our pets. I spent over 5 years doing research about nutrition and general cat care before getting my cat, and so do a lot of people my age, though perhaps not to such extremes.
I think some of the big conglomerates have noticed the trend of ”new wave pet owners” (if you will) pushing back against poorly formulated vet foods, and outright refusing to buy them — granted it’s a small pool, but I know of no people my age who feed any of the vet-approved brands, and all that can afford it feed wet-only or raw.
anyway, recently you do see higher end pet food with higher protein content and less fillers and carbs being sold by thone large corporations. Granted, it’s generally less good, and more expensive than alternatives, from what I’ve seen, but hey, if this trend continues they’ll foresee enough profit in the “boutique pet food” market to invest in proving that, in fact, the high protein, low carb wet foods ARE optimal for your obligate carnivores. Who’d’a thunk.

Yes I agree! I myself do not know a ton about WASAVA so it's great to learn more information. This does not surprise me though, it's kinda what happens when brands get too big. Basically capitalism. Also, I agree with you 100% the children thing. I'm right at the line of the two generations and there is no way I ever expect to afford children nor do I really want them...I just see my cats as my children. I'm definitely willing to spend much more to ensure their health. Part of it is because I was raised with a few cats and they all ended up overweight and then eventually died from diabetes. My mom didn't know any better so she fed them dry Friskees and after a vet recommendation, Science Diet. My Tanner died at only 12 years old because he was so sick and they didn't want to pay for the insulin. Since then I pretty much made it my mission to feed my cats the best thing for them, and it has been a long journey. Started out with Blue Buffalo dry/wet, then went to Halo wet, then Instinct wet....Tiki Cat wet....and eventually made it to raw. My cat Morty is a very difficult one and prone to allergies and vomiting so it's been a tough feud with my vet who insisted I feed him 3.00 cans of Hills bought directly from them. He had a terrible reaction and I've since taken control into my own hands and he's rapidly getting better. Initially when she told me to get a limited ingredient diet and recommended their prescription diet I asked if I could do the Instinct Limited Ingredient Rabbit instead, and she told me no it might not be as effective...even though he has a fish allergy and the fish oil in their food is not pharmaceutical grade (meaning cat's can have a reaction to the proteins).

 

[sidneykitty]

So I don't know exactly what you mean by "kickbacks" but as someone who worked at a vet clinic where I worked in both the business side and as an assistant, so I knew about the financial situation. I can tell you with 100% confidence that the vet I worked for did not receive any monetary or financial "kickbacks" from any company - food, pharmaceutical, insurance or otherwise and that running a vet clinic is very expensive. I can share with you what we got but this was only my experience at a single clinic out of many. I don't know where this idea originally came from but most vets out there genuinely want to help and are not crooks out for your money.

Here's what we as staff got and I am certain it would vary clinic to clinic -
1. discounts on food for our own pets. To me, this is no different to receiving an employee discount at any other type of retail store.
2. I did not pay a prescription refill surcharge on my Rx'es that is a standard addition for every Rx filled.
3. I received a discount on my exams/some procedures. (this was probably my favorite thing)
4. When rep's from pharma/food/insurance companies came to give educational talks over lunches, they bought us lunch. (Fast food). It was nice to get free food I guess but also kind of exhausting because it was a working lunch and I didn't receive an actual lunch break to get away from it all which is much needed mentally and physically.

We DO NOT receive any monetary incentive to signing people up to insurance. We loved when people sign up for insurance because it can help them pay for unexpected medical costs. I saw a number of times when insurance covered $1,000s worth of bills and I saw cases where it did not because of fine print and pre-existing conditions which is why we tended to discuss it most with people who had young cats who would hopefully not have that problem. Honestly, one of the things I found most difficult was the heartbreaking situation when owners could not afford the care their cat needs which is exactly why we like insurance. The times people had to make difficult choices because of finances were some of the worst for me and for the vet, too. I don't think insurance is the right fit for every person or every cat and its very important to read all the policies and thoroughly understand what you are getting into (and I personally prefer setting up a savings account for my cat emergencies) but it can be good for some.

Aside from that, I literally have a free pen and pad of post-its from one company. I think I got a free feeder toy at one point, too. That's pretty much it. Considering the blood, sweat and tears spent trying to help people and their pets, I don't find these benefits at all unreasonable. It was an exhausting job emotionally and physically and also very rewarding and that is the truth.

Edit: sorry just wanted to note - I am not mad and hope my post doesn't come across that way, I just wanted to share my experience from the "inside"!