vaccine question(s)

myrnafaye

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Hi, first I want to state clearly that I am not "anti vax". My cats are all indoor cats and I know rabies is required by law. But what about the panleukopenia, rhino and calici vaccine? is that necessary? One of my former cats had a very bad...problem ..related to a vaccine booster, and I have hesitated ever since. I will do rabies, because in order to board my cats, if necessary, rabies is required.
 

FeebysOwner

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Hi. Feeby (16+ yo), who is also an indoor only cat, got her yearly/tri-yearly shots up until about the age of 10 or 11. She no longer gets them, and is now not even receiving a rabies shot - which I think her last one was 4 years ago (with an every three years vax). I understand getting the rabies if you have to board, but the rest of the vax's per my vet are overkill, particularly on an indoor only cat.
 
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myrnafaye

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I have long felt the way vaccines are administered is way overkill. Tetanus in a human - lasts 10 years. I dont like the combination vaccines - the practice of loading three into one injection - I am not a veterinarian but I wonder if this practice confuses the immune system, and causes problems. If you read on line, the vets tell us that we can "track" in three on our shoes, clothing, etc. Wait - what?? is this true? am I supposed to believe this, that..I go sit in an office all day, or work from home, go to the grocery store - and I can track in an airborne pathogen that could kill my cats?
 

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Only certain vaccines are needed and only so often. Finally, long overdue, the US Dept of Agriculture changed what is needed from annually, to every 3 years, but that is still too much.
Personally and in my rescue group, I stick to the series of 3 kitten vaccines, which is their CORE protection.
They're given 1 FVRCP vax at 8 weeks, and every 3-4 weeks for a total of 3. FVRCP is Feline Viral Rhinotracheitis (herpevirus), Calici virus, and Panleukopenia. The first 2 viruses are of course the most common cat cold types and are for life.
Then of course the deadly Panleuk.
Once kitten vax are complete, 1 more FVRCP at 1-1 1/2 yrs old, and technically are protected for life. However with exposure, as in cat goes outdoors or you foster, etc then I would give 1 FVRCP vax at maybe 6 or so years old.

As for Rabies, get the 3 year, and only if your state requires it or you live near wooded areas around plenty of wildlife.

I am against Leukemia vaccines, and the only cats who should ever get it are those who actually live in a home with a positive cat. Leukemia is weak and outdoors is only transferred via deep cat bites (unfixed males) and indoors takes daily direct contact, dish sharing, grooming each other, etc.
 

Jcatbird

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I think Vaccines are concerning to us all to some extent. The rabies shot can become a problem if it isn’t given and your cat bites or scratches someone. I got a bite that put me in the hospital and I was VERY grateful I was able to produce the records for my cat. It saved me and the cat from further problems/treatment. My cats are all indoor only but authorities still required the information. I think every state now requires rabies but I may be mistaken. I do have an Felv cat and do get the vaccines done even though he is not in daily contact. I watched Felv take out all but three of a large colony and it was devastating. Some lived as negative for a couple of years after coming inside before being taken out by the illness. They did have the vaccine so I always wondered if that had any bearing or if the test just failed to catch it since it wasn’t active. Recently I was doing rescues of ferals and then socializing. Any that went for adoption were required to have all vaccines by the shelters here. Any travel can require shots too. A lot depends on your lifestyle, cats health, future plans for the cat and the recommendations of a trusted vet along with the laws in your area. Sadly, there are reactions to vaccines for some. Also, cats sometimes dash out a door. I do think it can be overkill as well. Tough to make these calls sometimes.
 

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go sit in an office all day, or work from home, go to the grocery store - and I can track in an airborne pathogen that could kill my cats?
Panleukopenia is not airborne but is spread by things like fecal traces in the grass, etc. It can be tracked in. Many many puppies die from parvo (dog version of panleuk) even if they never leave their owner's yard. It doesn't seem to be as prevalent in cats but if you live somewhere with a high stray population it's a concern, although the risk is very low for a previously-vaccinated adult cat. It's still a risk for kittens though, so always be careful with kittens.

Also, if you board your cat they'll almost certainly also require the FVCRP vaccine, possibly bordetella too. But maybe they'll allow it to be given upon intake, you should ask about their policies if you intend to board your cat.

Anyway, no, they definitely don't need annual vaccines or even every 3 years if they don't go outside. Vets like to recommend annual vaccines so that owners will bring in their pets for an annual checkup, but if you talk about your concerns and make it clear you'll bring the cat in for a checkup even without vaccines, they'll usually be willing to switch to a 3-year schedule. And may be willing to go even longer than that unless there are special circumstances (like boarding).
 

Maurey

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If you read on line, the vets tell us that we can "track" in three on our shoes, clothing, etc. Wait - what?? is this true? am I supposed to believe this, that..I go sit in an office all day, or work from home, go to the grocery store - and I can track in an airborne pathogen that could kill my cats?
Yes, this is very true. Airborne pathogens can settle on clothing, and persist there. Your cats may rub on your legs or on your shoes when you come in from outside, which is the route of infection. It will depend on the virus (and it will usually be viral) but many are plenty stable at room temperature on clothing for a long period of time due to being transmitted through air. Even if your cats don’t rub against you when you come home, if an airborne virus got on your clothing, you can shed it right back into the air, though it’s generally less likely your cats will get an infectious viral load that way

For a currently-relevant example, COVID-19 can live on fabric for up to two days and can be shed right back into the air, or transmitted from surface to surface by touching.
There’s not a huge amount of published research on this topic for various cat viruses, but we know for a fact that feline cornavirus can also be transmitted by clothing.


I dont like the combination vaccines - the practice of loading three into one injection - I am not a veterinarian but I wonder if this practice confuses the immune system, and causes problems
No, it will not, as the immune system is intended to work this way. You, your cat, any living creature is exposed to hundreds of potential pathogens a day. If the immune system got impaired by the presence of multiple pathogens at a time, life as we know it wouldn’t exist today. Combination vaccines may see a slightly reduced response to each individual virus, but it’s not significant, as it still results in immune resistance. Here is some research on the topic.

Combined administration in a single injection of a feline multivalent modified live vaccine against FHV, FCV, and FPLV together with a recombinant FeLV vaccine is both safe and efficacious for all four major feline viral pathogens

The efficacy of a multivalent calicivirus, herpesvirus and parvovirus vaccine and a rabies vaccine is not affected when administered in combination
 

Maurey

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Anyway, no, they definitely don't need annual vaccines or even every 3 years if they don't go outside. Vets like to recommend annual vaccines so that owners will bring in their pets for an annual checkup, but if you talk about your concerns and make it clear you'll bring the cat in for a checkup even without vaccines, they'll usually be willing to switch to a 3-year schedule. And may be willing to go even longer than that unless there are special circumstances (like boarding).
Unless your cat is contraindicated to do 3 year vaccines on a 3 year cycle, you should really be getting bloodwork done to confirm lasting immunity past the 3 year point during your yearly checkups (though this is beneficial even w/ contraindication, as you’ll want to take certain precautions when specific immunities run out). There is a reason vaccinations are currently proofed to last between 1 and 3 years — that is the confirmed lasting efficacy period of immunity in the majority of cats.
 

catwoman707

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I meant to reply to the OP's comment/question as well regarding tracking viruses in to the house from outside.
In case anyone is not aware, Panleuk virus is extremely hearty and stabile, and can/does live for 18 months on surfaces, fomites (anything that absorbs, clothing, towels, furniture, etc.)
Dr. Kate Hurley said that even if a cat outside urinates in grass, then winter comes and the grass is dead and buried under snow, when it comes back up in the spring from the grass seed, Panleuk virus is still present and contagious. Now that's scary!
 
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myrnafaye

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My vet says the following: "The panleukopenia, rhino and calici are modified-live. There are also adjuvanted (3 year) and non-adjuvanted (1 year). We offer both. " So, I think she is saying these can be administered yearly, or every three years. How am I supposed to know what is best for my cats??
 
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myrnafaye

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Yes, this is very true. Airborne pathogens can settle on clothing, and persist there. Your cats may rub on your legs or on your shoes when you come in from outside, which is the route of infection. It will depend on the virus (and it will usually be viral) but many are plenty stable at room temperature on clothing for a long period of time due to being transmitted through air. Even if your cats don’t rub against you when you come home, if an airborne virus got on your clothing, you can shed it right back into the air, though it’s generally less likely your cats will get an infectious viral load that way

For a currently-relevant example, COVID-19 can live on fabric for up to two days and can be shed right back into the air, or transmitted from surface to surface by touching.
There’s not a huge amount of published research on this topic for various cat viruses, but we know for a fact that feline cornavirus can also be transmitted by clothing.



No, it will not, as the immune system is intended to work this way. You, your cat, any living creature is exposed to hundreds of potential pathogens a day. If the immune system got impaired by the presence of multiple pathogens at a time, life as we know it wouldn’t exist today. Combination vaccines may see a slightly reduced response to each individual virus, but it’s not significant, as it still results in immune resistance. Here is some research on the topic.

Combined administration in a single injection of a feline multivalent modified live vaccine against FHV, FCV, and FPLV together with a recombinant FeLV vaccine is both safe and efficacious for all four major feline viral pathogens

The efficacy of a multivalent calicivirus, herpesvirus and parvovirus vaccine and a rabies vaccine is not affected when administered in combination
 

Maurey

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My vet says the following: "The panleukopenia, rhino and calici are modified-live. There are also adjuvanted (3 year) and non-adjuvanted (1 year). We offer both. " So, I think she is saying these can be administered yearly, or every three years. How am I supposed to know what is best for my cats??
It's a choice to be made. Non-adjuvanted vaccines are generally proofed to give less lasting immunity (though there is a single non adjuvanted vaccine that lasts 3 years -- Purevax's rabies vaccine). However, FISS (feline injection site sarcoma) is thought to be caused by inflammation, and a potential causal link has been found between adjuvant and slightly increased risks of the sarcoma occurring. Because of this, some vets will recommend not using adjuvanted vaccines on cats, even if they're generally only proofed for 1 year. This is also why vets have moved away from vaccinating in the scruff, and instead vaccinate through the legs, or, most modernly, the tail.

On the other hand, while adjuvanted vaccines have a slightly higher risk, they also need to be administered much less frequently. I would consider the risk between the two about the same, until either non adjuvanted vaccines progress to 3 year coverage, or adjuvanted vaccines start to cover closer to 6 years. That said, unless you have local laws mandating mandatory yearly rabies vaccines, like where I live, I would choose the Purvax 3 year non-adjuvanted vaccine every time.

I would also like to reassure anybody reading that FISS is not a common issue, and not something to turn people off of getting their cats protected by vaccination. It does happen, sadly, but it is both uncommon, and treatable, especially with modern precautions. Vaccine choice is all about risk mitigation. The risk of FISS is very small, under 1% (between 0.001 and 0.01% depending on the study), while the risks an unvaccinated cat faces, regardless of being indoor, is much higher.
My cat, despite being indoor (with supervised visits outside, riding in a backpack when I go to the park), has gotten calicivirus. As she's up to date on all her vaccinations, any flareups she's had have been very mild, just sniffles and some occasional gum inflammation, rather than full blown calicivirus, which can be life threatening depending on the strain.
 
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