Using eggshell or MCHA (calcium hydroxyapatite) to balance meat or meat & organs

[mrsgreenjeens]

We need to have something like just the very first post of this specific thread in a Resources Thread, kind of separate from the original Raw Resources Thread that AC made up...know what I mean.  This particular thread will eventually get lost.  Remember we started up a Raw Diet Transitioners Social Group?  Maybe we need to start adding important things like this, and a list of what you need (scales, probiotics, digestive enzymes, plastic placemats, etc.)  Places to get food (Hare-Today, etc)

What do you guys think?  It would really be nice if these "need to know" threads were some where easily found, don't you think?

 

[ldg]

Yeah - and I think the easiest way to do it is to edit the Raw Feeding Resources thread, actually. A mod will have to do it, but there are a few links to threads I'd like to include, and links to other sites as well. In fact, maybe I should just start a thread about updating the raw resources thread, and creating a home-cooked resources thread.

 

[Willowy]

I'm sure it's somewhere else. . .but I can't find it :tongue2:. What's the problem with plain bone meal? Like NOW or KAL?
NOW: http://www.nowfoods.com/Bone-Meal-1lb.htm
KAL: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/kal-bone-meal-powder-8-oz-pwdr

 

[ldg]

Nothing, really, if you're using a human grade supplement. The problem is in pet grade bone meal.

The potential issue with bone meal is that it's made from older cows. A number of years ago, lead was found in even human grade stuff. The concern is that toxins accumulate in the bones/marrow of factory fed cows. I've also seen discussion of potential problems with the accumulation of flouride in bone - thus in bone meal.

I don't know that these same problems wouldn't exist with MCHA - but it's from young cows, not older ones, raised in NZ.

 

[Willowy]

Yeah, I've heard that. Hopefully, now that leaded gas isn't a thing anymore, the lead shouldn't accumulate so easily. Not sure about fluoride---I guess they would use municipal water supplies, wouldn't they? :/

I just wondered because it's literally NEVER mentioned :lol3:.

 

[mschauer]

 

[ldg]

Beautiful, thanks for that analysis, mschauer!

 

[goholistic]

Holy mathematics, people! 

Why do I keep reading that eggshell is a better option for cats prone to constipation? Is this true?

 

[ldg]

Where have you seen that? Funny you bring this up. In another discussion of bone vs alternatives, I believe Furmonster Mom brought up the issue of magnesium. The main minerals in bone are calcium, phosphorus, and magnesium.

Eggshell has trace amounts of phosphorus, and a slighlly lower relative percent of magnesium than bone.

I dont know if you've ever taken calcium or magnesium supplements, but calcium is constipating and magnesium ... isn't.

I have a kitty that gets easily constipated since switching to raw. The problem is more of an issue when we use the MCHA. This is counter-intuitive to me, because of the lower magnesium relative to calcium in eggshell. :dk:

 

[peaches08]

Would it have to do with the types of calcium salts?

 

[goholistic]

Where have you seen that? Funny you bring this up. In another discussion of bone vs alternatives, I believe Furmonster Mom brought up the issue of magnesium. The main minerals in bone are calcium, phosphorus, and magnesium.

Eggshell has trace amounts of phosphorus, and a slighlly lower relative percent of magnesium than bone.

I dont know if you've ever taken calcium or magnesium supplements, but calcium is constipating and magnesium ... isn't.

I have a kitty that gets easily constipated since switching to raw. The problem is more of an issue when we use the MCHA. This is counter-intuitive to me, because of the lower magnesium relative to calcium in eggshell.

Ugh...I didn't bookmark any of the links and now I can't find where I saw it. Sorry. But I know I read it somewhere! I came across it when I was researching raw and home cooked diets.

 

[peaches08]

Ugh...I didn't bookmark any of the links and now I can't find where I saw it. Sorry. But I know I read it somewhere! I came across it when I was researching raw and home cooked diets.

I see where RadCat kind of makes this claim when explaining why they use eggshells instead of raw bones.

 

[aprilprey]

I wanted to add to this thread to say: using eggshells is so awesome!  I can't believe I waited this long to try it.  What is really cool is that the two eggs in Dr. Pierson's recipe provide more than enough eggshell powder for the recipe - wow - used the WHOLE EGG!

I was so excited, it was all I could do to hold myself back from picking the dozens of eggshells I just dumped into my compost - out so I could grind those too.

As an added bonus....we apparently have FOUR, count 'em, FOUR coffee grinders in the house.   How did THAT happen?

So I even had a nearly brand spanking new grinder to use to boot. 

Thanks LDG for all the work you put into this!

 

[ritz]

Hey everyone, back to thinking about switching to egg shell because Ritz threw up bone this morning--an odd time for her to throw up; evening is her usual time, which is why I've switched to the morning to feed her red meat and bone.
I feed prey model raw, and am trying to do the math per LDG's calculations.
I feed around 3.2 oz of meat/protein and .36 oz of organs every day; I'd been feeding Ritz around .60 oz bone with meat three times a week.
By my calculations I would feed 3/32 teaspoons + 1/64 teaspoon a day of egg shell. Any easy way of doing a batch? I typically make up 11 to 14 daily meals at one time and freeze. I do have the neat teaspoons LDG linked to. And a coffee grinder.
Also, would cooking the egg first make any difference in calcium? I eat cooked egg whites for protein so it's a no brainer for me to feed her egg shell versus MCHA. I give Ritz about 1/3 cooked egg yolk a couple of times a week.
I'm reluctant to switch to egg shell because Ritz does love dem bone and I love hearing the crunch, and she has a problem with tarter/gingivitus (another dental cleaning next month), but I can't have her throwing up such an important component of raw feeding.
Thanks.

 

[lcat4]

Help please...I'm venturing into new territory here... I'm going to use Mschauer's newly posted raw turkey recipe with MCHA for my girls and am in the process of ordering supplies.  I decided I better check before hitting the order button.  I was about to order NOW Calcium Hydroxyapatite, 250mg, in capsule form.  Looking at the recipe for 5 pounds meat I need 44g of the MCHA.  Does that mean for one recipe I need 176 capsules?

Am I figuring wrong?  I know everyone's said MCHA is more expensive than eggshell, and I'm fine with that.  I'm picturing losing count amidst a sea of plastic capsules.

Thanks for any guidance!

 

[mschauer]

Unfortunately you have it right.

I would recommend emptying all the capsules into another container first then measure how much you need from that.

 

[peaches08]

I think I read that @LDG grinds capsules and all in a clean, dedicated coffee grinder.  That might be easier than opening so many capsules.

 

[lcat4]

Thanks for the quick responses and good tips!  I guess I'll be ordering more than one bottle at a time.

I think I'll try the emptying the capsules method first.  Sounds like a good project while watching a show on TV. 

 

[goholistic]

 
I'm picturing losing count amidst a sea of plastic capsules.

I just had to say that this was my first laugh for the day.  Thanks for that. 

 

[lcat4]

I thought I better clarify that they aren't actually plastic capsules - they are veggie capsules - they just look plastic.

I didn't want anyone using this as a future point of reference to be confused.