US Kitten & Cat Registry???

aprilyim

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Hello everyone!

As some of you know, I've unexpectedly become the owner of a second cat. (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/258079/introducing-sasha-yim#post_3350443)

Last night, Sasha's previous owner dropped off some paperwork that seems to indicate that she is registered and a purebred Siamese cat. It lists her Dam and Sire and their numbers. 

However, I've tried to search for this association online and cannot seem to find it. The certificate says they are the "US Kitten & Cat Registry" based in Plainview, NY.  

Have any of you heard of this association before?

I have doubts about this certificate (mostly because they don't seem to exist on the internet.)
 
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aprilyim

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Thanks for your quick reply. It doesn't list the name of the breeder. 

Here is a scan of the document. I can't help but think that her previous owner was duped and paid hundreds of dollars to a swindler. 

View media item 161344
 

GoldyCat

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I see several red flags here.

The only DRA registry (last line of the form) I found on an internet search is the Dog Registry of America.

No breeder name on the certificate.

None of the names of Dam, Sire, or Kitten include the cattery name. I'm most familiar with CFA, but I'm pretty sure that all the recognized associations require the cattery name to be the first word in the cat's registered name. If a breeder buys a cat from another breeder, the name will be "the original breeder's cattery name-cat's name-of new owner's cattery name".

My impression is a BYB trying to look legitimate in order to make lots of money.
 

Willowy

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LOL, thats the most puppymill-ish puppymill registry I've every seen :tongue2:. They'll register any dog, just send 'em your money! Here's the dog page; it has the same address, phone number, and font so I assume it's the same company: http://www.dogpapers.com/ Let me see if there's a cat equivalent. . .eh, I can't find one. Maybe they discontinued the cat registry because of lack of demand or something. Or maybe you can alter the dog papers for cats. Anyway, yeah, sham registry. She's probably "purebred" in the sense of her ancestors being Siamese, but not of any particular lines or show quality.
 
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GoldyCat

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Okay, I just looked at your other thread -- after I posted. :doh3: You definitely do not have a purebred siamese. Siamese are shorthair cats with a very tight, close-lying coat. The longhair version of the Siamese is considered a different breed, listed as Balinese in both CFA and TICA. They still have the long slender body type of a Siamese and aren't quite as fluffy as your kitty in the pictures I've seen.

You could have a Siamese or Balinese mix.
 

Willowy

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Haha, I should have looked first, too! Wow, no, I wouldn't have guessed Siamese at all, not even Siamese mix. If you told me she was purebred I would have guessed Ragdoll. . .
 

mrblanche

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Well, on top of that, the papers list her as a seal point, which she definitely isn't!
 
 
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aprilyim

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Thank you all for your quick replies!

I had my doubts about this certificate and now I know that my suspicions were correct. 

Like you guys mentioned, when her previous owner told me that Sasha was a purebred Siamese the first thing I pointed out was her fur length. 

I hope that this will help me convince her previous owner to allow me to get Sasha spayed. (She had notions of breeding her when she initially purchased her.)
 
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aprilyim

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Yes, because I am her current owner I plan to get her spayed in the near future.

But because it's only been a month since she's come to my home, I'd rather get the full support of her previous owner whom I believe is devastated about parting with her pet cat, and whom I think in her heart, still believes herself to be Sasha's owner.

I've tried convincing her that there is no way that Sasha could be a pedigree Siamese cat by showing her the CFA breed standards site but she insisted that she had paperwork and would bring it to me later. Lo and behold, this certificate is fake.

This fake certificate will help build my case and make it easier for her to accept. 
 

maewkaew

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Yep that is a VERY bogus "registry".  Those papers are worthless and sounds like the former owner got scammed .  Sasha is a very beautiful cat but  definitely not a purebred Siamese  with that coat!  1. it's longhair, 2. it's a thick double coat!   both of those things are not natural to the Siamese and are signs of  non-Siamese ancestry.  

I would not guess at any recent Siamese ancestry in her.  and she does not look like a Balinese either since they still have single coats that lie fairly flat....  they don't look poofy except for the plumed tail. 

 and as mrblanche points out,   this fake registry paper does not even have her color correct!  

I agree with Willowy, the closest breed to her looks would be a Ragdoll .   but really that coat sounds a bit different from Raggies too.   And if she were really a pedigree Ragdoll there would have been no reason to buy fake papers calling her a Siamese.   There's really no guessing what her ancestry is since the breeder was dishonest ( or really, really amazingly clueless about the breed and about ethical breeding practices,  and actually believed Sasha was a seal point Siamese,  and thought it was OK to buy bogus puppymill registry papers.)    

Unfortunately there are some  breeders who have also done some dishonest things with CFA pedigrees  --  hanging Siamese papers on a bunch of pointed moggies ,  and selling  breeding cats from these lines to people who are not informed.....  so there are even CFA registered Siamese who are not really Siamese.    So if someone really wants an authentic Siamese they need to do their research both on what are the legit registries and on how the breed should look.  

Maybe these things can also help you convince her former owner.

The TICA Thai standard  http://www.tica.org/members/publications/standards/th.pdf   is a good detailed explanation of the authentic old style Siamese  (here is  examples of real  seal point Siamese ( aka Thai) of that type   
 
 ,  and the CFA or TICA  Siamese standards describe the "modern" type Siamese that has been developed via selective breeding.  http://www.tica.org/members/publications/standards/si.pdf       http://www.cfa.org/Portals/0/documents/breeds/standards/siamese.pdf

 Here is an example  

Sasha is gorgeous but clearly looks nothing like either type of Siamese. 

 Of course what is really most important in all this is that Sasha is in a good home.    

And yes , she should definitely be spayed. 

Even if she WERE an absolutely authentic pedigreed cat of Siamese ancestry and conformation to the Siamese or Thai standard,  that would not mean she would NEED to be bred.    To preserve a breed,  a breed community of dedicated, knowledgeable breeders need to work together to breed the best.   It doesn't mean every kitten sold as a pet also needs to breed.   

 And in this case it would not even be breeding a pedigreed cat. ,  it would be making more pointed domestics when Siamese Rescues ( which have lots of pointed moggies too) are full of them already.    

If her former owner is sad about not being able to keep her,  maybe at intervals  you can send photos and a little story about how she is doing.   But you really need to be adamant about spaying.  She's your cat now.  You might mention there is some risk to any pregnancy.  and no reason to put Sasha at risk when there is not a larger goal 
 
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aprilyim

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Thanks for your reply!

Your materials in addition to mine should make a good case. 


Her previous owner bought Sasha at a puppy and kitten store for hundreds of dollars so I suspect that business knew exactly what they were doing; making a business of scamming uneducated buyers. 

Your suggestion about sending photos is a great one! She had said that she wanted to visit when she first dropped off Sasha but she hasn't made the time to visit yet so sending pictures and videos is a thoughtful way to make her feel involved.
 
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aprilyim

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Update:

Sasha's previous owner has consented to my plan to spay Sasha. 


Sasha and Simba are due for vaccines and check-ups so I made an appointment with the vet in two weeks.

Sasha's previous owner wants to come along so we arranged to pick her up en route to the vet.  

After she receives the all-clear, I will schedule a spaying day for her. 

Also, I have reported that pet store to the Humane Society under suspicions of involvement with puppy and kitten mills. 
 
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maewkaew

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 Good news on all counts!  

 I am glad the former owner is now OK with you spaying Sasha.    I am sure you feel better knowing she is not regretting her decision to let you have her.     I hope all goes fine. 
 
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aprilyim

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Thank you! Now I'm reading up on what to expect post-surgery. (My first cat, Simba, was adopted from a shelter and he was neutered before I met him.)
 
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