Urine culture & Lactobacillus species bacteria?

FeebysOwner

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A urinalysis showed Feeby had bacteria in her urine. So, we followed up with a urine culture. The culture indicated a lactobacillus species bacteria, but the culture for sensitivity was stopped short due to the Antech lab saying this was a non-pathogenic bacteria and there was no need to pursue. She has never had this specific bacteria show up in a urine culture before.

I have looked up this bacteria and found conflicting information - while all data agree it is common for it be in the digestive tract, the information diverges on whether it should be found in the urogenital tract - some say it is fine, others say it is indicative of an infection. I have asked for a further explanation from the vet, but I believe he is unavailable to speak with me due to a serious illness or family matter.

Anyone else have this bacteria show up, and if you did, what was the outcome/resolution? Thanks.
 

silent meowlook

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Is she having any symptoms. I would not be overly concerned if the lab said no need for testing further. How do you know the lab s said that? Which lab? Sometimes you can go on their website to find out further information.
 
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FeebysOwner

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Is she having any symptoms. I would not be overly concerned if the lab said no need for testing further. How do you know the lab s said that? Which lab? Sometimes you can go on their website to find out further information.
Feeby is not showing any symptoms of an infection, but she has had UTIs before without any signs. The lab was Antech, and the only way I know what they said is that a vet tech, from my vets office, called me to tell me, but she couldn't offer any explanation or further information. I have left 2 messages for my vet, and neither have been returned. I knew he was having some issues that was taking him away from his office before this happened, and suspect he has probably been out of the office since then.

I also checked out Antech's website, but their Q&A and test detail data do not get specific enough to be of any help. I also called them, but they will not discuss specific cases with anyone other than the 'patient's veterinarian'.
 

silent meowlook

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That sucks. I’m sorry. Is it just one vet at that hospital or could another call you.
 
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FeebysOwner

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That sucks. I’m sorry. Is it just one vet at that hospital or could another call you.
My vet owns the practice and has 5 other vets employed. And, when I was first waiting on the culture and called, the vet he prefers as his primary back-up actually did call me and said they knew the kind of bacteria involved but were still waiting on the culture results. She never mentioned it was a possibility that it might be considered non-pathogenic - whatever that means. She did tell me that if it turned out my primary vet was out again I could call her. So, I suspect they were aware he might be MIA quite often. But, no I have not called her directly - my bad. I left two messages for him, and figured they would be directed to her.

I guess I am just feeling defeated right now as this type of thing has never happened before and you would think if he is not going to be readily available, he would have assigned a formal back-up for all of his 'normal' patients. I do suspect the bacteria is not an issue, as I trust this vet, but it would be nice to hear it from a vet and not a vet tech that doesn't seem to be able to explain it. Or, as I had hoped, to hear it from other members on this site.

EDIT: Just called and left a message for the back-up vet.
 
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fionasmom

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I absolutely don't know the answer to the question about the bacteria but I do agree that the practice needs to be realigned if your vet is not going to be available, and not by pinch hitters.
 

silent meowlook

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My vet owns the practice and has 5 other vets employed. And, when I was first waiting on the culture and called, the vet he prefers as his primary back-up actually did call me and said they knew the kind of bacteria involved but were still waiting on the culture results. She never mentioned it was a possibility that it might be considered non-pathogenic - whatever that means. She did tell me that if it turned out my primary vet was out again I could call her. So, I suspect they were aware he might be MIA quite often. But, no I have not called her directly - my bad. I left two messages for him, and figured they would be directed to her.

I guess I am just feeling defeated right now as this type of thing has never happened before and you would think if he is not going to be readily available, he would have assigned a formal back-up for all of his 'normal' patients. I do suspect the bacteria is not an issue, as I trust this vet, but it would be nice to hear it from a vet and not a vet tech that doesn't seem to be able to explain it. Or, as I had hoped, to hear it from other members on this site.

EDIT: Just called and left a message for the back-up vet.
Hi. From what I know it is not a significant finding. It is a normal bacteria in the body. Without having done the urinalysis myself or seen the culture results, who knows if it is overgrowth or not or if it needs to be treated. Since the lab report from antech said it didn’t need to be further investigated with a c and s done, I would think it is not important to pursue especially since your cat isn’t showing any symptoms.
It isn’t necessarily that the tech doesn’t understand the report, but that she is limited in her scope of practice as to what she can legally tell you.
I don’t think your vet has failed you. I think you just have to do what you’ve already done and ask for another vet to help you.
 

Xena44

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My vet owns the practice and has 5 other vets employed. And, when I was first waiting on the culture and called, the vet he prefers as his primary back-up actually did call me and said they knew the kind of bacteria involved but were still waiting on the culture results. She never mentioned it was a possibility that it might be considered non-pathogenic - whatever that means. She did tell me that if it turned out my primary vet was out again I could call her. So, I suspect they were aware he might be MIA quite often. But, no I have not called her directly - my bad. I left two messages for him, and figured they would be directed to her.

I guess I am just feeling defeated right now as this type of thing has never happened before and you would think if he is not going to be readily available, he would have assigned a formal back-up for all of his 'normal' patients. I do suspect the bacteria is not an issue, as I trust this vet, but it would be nice to hear it from a vet and not a vet tech that doesn't seem to be able to explain it. Or, as I had hoped, to hear it from other members on this site.

EDIT: Just called and left a message for the back-up vet.
I gather the urine sample was collected via cystocentesis (a needle inserted directly into the bladder to get the urine sample)? I know this seems obvious but the fact that lactobacillus is present in the feline vagina tract is just a point of note.
 
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FeebysOwner

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I gather the urine sample was collected via cystocentesis (a needle inserted directly into the bladder to get the urine sample)? I know this seems obvious but the fact that lactobacillus is present in the feline vagina tract is just a point of note.
Yes, the urine sample was done via cystocentesis, so straight from the bladder reducing the odds of any contamination. Not sure what you mean by 'point of note' regarding the vaginal tract - I presume that to mean the urinary tract as well.
 
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Xena44

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Yes, the urine sample was done via cystocentesis, so straight from the bladder reducing the odds of any contamination. Not sure what you mean by 'point of note' regarding the vaginal tract - I presume that to mean the urinary tract as well.
What I meant by that is that the travel distance from the vaginal tract to the Urethra is very short. Compared to a male urinary tract/urethra, which is very long and that is why it is much more prevalent for females to get urinary tract infections than males. I honestly don’t know what much about contamination of lactobacillus in the urine. I also read that either it can be pathogenic or not.
 
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FeebysOwner

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What I meant by that is that the travel distance from the vaginal tract to the Urethra is very short. Compared to a male urinary tract/urethra, which is very long and that is why it is much more prevalent for females to get urinary tract infections than males. I honestly don’t know what much about contamination of lactobacillus in the urine. I also read that either it can be pathogenic or not.
I see. I guess I just wasn't following you, because I had already said earlier that this bacteria can be found in the urogenital tract (so, both vaginal/urinary tracts), but is generally indicative of an infection according to some data - or, is harmless according to other data. I am guessing that is how the 'pathogenic' vs. 'non-pathogenic' labeling comes into play. Now, I just need to find out how the lab determined it was non-pathogenic, since data suggests both are possible.
 

Xena44

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I see. I guess I just wasn't following you, because I had already said earlier that this bacteria can be found in the urogenital tract (so, both vaginal/urinary tracts), but is generally indicative of an infection according to some data - or, is harmless according to other data. I am guessing that is how the 'pathogenic' vs. 'non-pathogenic' labeling comes into play. Now, I just need to find out how the lab determined it was non-pathogenic, since data suggests both are possible.
Ah. I guess I missed that. Ya. Now the investigation has to be done.
 

Xena44

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I see. I guess I just wasn't following you, because I had already said earlier that this bacteria can be found in the urogenital tract (so, both vaginal/urinary tracts), but is generally indicative of an infection according to some data - or, is harmless according to other data. I am guessing that is how the 'pathogenic' vs. 'non-pathogenic' labeling comes into play. Now, I just need to find out how the lab determined it was non-pathogenic, since data suggests both are possible.
There were no other flags in the urine sample? White blood cells? Red blood cells, elevated epithelial cells? All else within normal limits? The u/a was just part of routine screening?
 
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FeebysOwner

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There were no other flags in the urine sample? White blood cells? Red blood cells, elevated epithelial cells? All else within normal limits? The u/a was just part of routine screening?
A urine culture was done because the urinalysis - which was part of a routine screening - showed bacteria in her urine. No other indications of an issue from the urinalysis perspective. But, this has also happened in the past when she had bacteria in her urine which turned out to be e-coli, and it was treated as an infection. She has had frequent bouts over several years with e-coli in her urine, and has rarely had outward symptoms when it was identified.
 

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A urine culture was done because the urinalysis - which was part of a routine screening - showed bacteria in her urine. No other indications of an issue from the urinalysis perspective. But, this has also happened in the past when she had bacteria in her urine which turned out to be e-coli, and it was treated as an infection. She has had frequent bouts over several years with e-coli in her urine, and has rarely had outward symptoms when it was identified.
Hmm... wow. Please keep updating. I’m very interested in what you find out. Thank you. Hope your feeby is ok!
 
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FeebysOwner

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Still no word from the vet's office, even with a call on Thursday and an email today. Feeby seems OK, but she is sleeping a lot, in between her trips to her food/water dishes and her litter box. However, I have no reason to believe there is any additional health issue with her besides old age - and hyperthyroidism, which is being treated.

So, now the issue is still getting an explanation about the bacteria and why it doesn't require treatment - AND what the heck is going on with my vet's office. Been with this same practice since 1984 - both the founder and then his son.
 

BlackCatOp

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While cats can show no symptoms of a uti (I had an elderly kitty who did the same and she too had e.coli), I would be hesitant to diagnose a uti without the presence of white and/or red blood cells. We all have commensal bacteria on and in us (we actually have more bacteria cells than our own!) It definitely sounds like this is just a commensal bacteria and luckily of no concern.
 

BlackCatOp

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While cats can show no symptoms of a uti (I had an elderly kitty who did the same and she too had e.coli), I would be hesitant to diagnose a uti without the presence of white and/or red blood cells. We all have commensal bacteria on and in us (we actually have more bacteria cells than our own!) It definitely sounds like this is just a commensal bacteria and luckily of no concern.
Also, in dogs it’s common practice to not treat even pathogenic bacteria unless the dog is showing symptoms. (Dogs get uti much more commonly than cats so that’s why dogs are used as an example)
 

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While cats can show no symptoms of a uti (I had an elderly kitty who did the same and she too had e.coli), I would be hesitant to diagnose a uti without the presence of white and/or red blood cells. We all have commensal bacteria on and in us (we actually have more bacteria cells than our own!) It definitely sounds like this is just a commensal bacteria and luckily of no concern.
Can you give any insight on why some sites call it pathogenic (therefore requiring treatment) and others calling it nonpathogenic?
 
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