Undercolor in cats?

[kkoerner]

So, Cadbury is a chocolate DSH. I used to raise rabbits and worked specifically with chocolates and lilacs (Netherland dwarfs). Chocolate Netherlands have chocolate fur on the outer half of their fur and a dove-grey undercolor.

Back to Cadbury. Where his fur parts around his collar almost looks like the same dove grey my rabbits had. However, his back, legs, head and tail all are chocolate to the skin and his sides are light brown towards the roots. He also has ghost tabby stripes that I assume are more visable because he has a lighter undercolor. Are chocolate solids supposed to have a lighter undercolor or be the rich chocolate to the skin?

I ask not because it matters terribly, but just curiosity! LOL

His light brown undercolor on his sides (couldn't get one of they dove grey at his neck and sorry for the awful, blurry, dark picture here...he is asleep on his cat tree, in a corner with bad light)

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• kkoerner
• Jul 13, 2015

you can kind of see his stripes on his chest and legs here but I don't have a good one of his ghost stripes on my phone. You can also see the dove grey undercolor where his collar splits his fur here...

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• kkoerner
• Jul 13, 2015

 

[grizzlysapien]

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

I think we have similar (if not identical) cats! I am posting this photo, because you can see Grizzly's undercolor under his chin.. Grizzly does have "ghost" tabby patterns as well.. His whole furcoat is brown and lightens to "blonde" towards the roots.

I had read somewhere that cats and rabbits are DNA related. Hence the similar back legs.. They also "kick" the same way. I am just making a reference since you raise rabbits as well.

Cheers mate! Nice to have a fellow chocolate-brown cat carer 

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

In this photo his undercolor is much more obvious.

Feel free to browse through my profile to see pics I've uploaded. You'll see details of color, undercolor and patterns, throughout his growing up. I look at Cadbury and it's like I am looking at Grizzly's lost twin! LOL (except for the grey parts you mentioned - Grizzly is all brown - no grey parts).

 

[kkoerner]

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

I think we have similar (if not identical) cats! I am posting this photo, because you can see Grizzly's undercolor under his chin.. Grizzly does have "ghost" tabby patterns as well.. His whole furcoat is brown and lightens to "blonde" towards the roots.


I had read somewhere that cats and rabbits are DNA related. Hence the similar back legs.. They also "kick" the same way. I am just making a reference since you raise rabbits as well.

Cheers mate! Nice to have a fellow chocolate-brown cat carer :high5:  

*Editing my post*

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

In this photo his undercolor is much more obvious.

Feel free to browse through my profile to see pics I've uploaded. You'll see details of color, undercolor and patterns, throughout his growing up. I look at Cadbury and it's like I am looking at Grizzly's lost twin! LOL (except for the grey parts you mentioned - Grizzly is all brown - no grey parts).

Oh, Cadbury doesn't not have any grey that shows on his topcoat! The dove-grey I mentioned was just what color his roots are at his neck. Everywhere else is either light brown underneath or full on chocolate to the roots!

He is solid chocolate unless you part his hair to see the roots. So yep, we have twin kitties. Except, Grizzly looks like he has pretty green eyes. Cadbury's are yellow on the outer ring and green next to the pupil.

I have heard that about cats and rabbits too.

Grizzly is a handsome fellow. I love chocolates!

 

[grizzlysapien]

Originally Posted by KKoerner  

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

And this is the space between ears and eyes..

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

Does Cadbury have the same hair distribution? 

 

[kkoerner]

OK, I misinterpreted what you wrote - English is not my mother language, so sometimes I understand something completely different than what people wirte. Sorry about that! 

Yes! Our kitties are twins! Grizzly's eyes are yellow and green also - it depends on the picture actually.. sometimes they are totally yellow, others totally green etc.. but from up close, his eyes are both colors, like Cadbury.

How about Cadbury's ears? The reason I'm asking is that Grizzly has very few hairs on back surface of his ears. It's like their almost "naked"! LOL


Additionally, he has way too few hairs between ears and eyes..


This is the back surface of the ears - Hope you can see what I mean

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

And this is the space between ears and eyes..

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

Does Cadbury have the same hair distribution? 

Yes, he does. I believe most, shorthaired, mature cats do. I think the hair on his ears is short, and thinner, because it helps them cool off. That's how it is with rabbits at least because there is a large blood vein (artery?) That runs along the edge of the ear and thinner hair allows it to stay cooler, which keeps them cooler. I may be wrong about cats being the same but most do have thinner ear hairs!

Here is a pic with the light showing through his ears:

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• kkoerner
• Jul 13, 2015

The hair between the ears and eyes is normal too. That happens as a kitten goes from baby to cat and then stays that way.

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• kkoerner
• Jul 13, 2015

Cadbury's eyes do that color change in pictures too. Here they are looking yellow LOL

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• kkoerner
• Jul 13, 2015

 

[grizzlysapien]

Thanks! I know what a vein is! LOL 

It seems odd that you're saying that the hair distribution is normal. Other cats I had (outdoor cats) had a pretty thick hair coat on the back surface of the ear. It was thinner than the rest of the body, yes. But way thicker than Grizzly's. Actually, when the light shines through his ears, it's hillarious.. It's like he has mosquito wings instead of ears 

Friends of mine that have cats, also, do not have so few hairs at that part of their ears.. 

 Some of those cats are siamese, others are mixed breeds but I am talking about the shorthaired ones. I am not comparing Grizzly with a Persian for example.

And that space of almost "no-hair" between eyes and ears, I've seen it in other cats, but it's not THAT hairless. 

Tell you what. I'll Google this feature and come back to you. Maybe it is some trait of some kind of a breed that might be running through our twins VEINS? 

 (see what I did there? or maybe it was an unsuccessful joke 

) 

 

[kkoerner]

Thanks! I know what a vein is! LOL 

LOL yeah...I just wasn't sure if it was a large vein or an artery there. Haha. I suppose it must be a vein though.

 

[kkoerner]

Thanks! I know what a vein is! LOL 

It seems odd that you're saying that the hair distribution is normal. Other cats I had (outdoor cats) had a pretty thick hair coat on the back surface of the ear. It was thinner than the rest of the body, yes. But way thicker than Grizzly's. Actually, when the light shines through his ears, it's hillarious.. It's like he has mosquito wings instead of ears 

Friends of mine that have cats, also, do not have so few hairs at that part of their ears.. :slant:  Some of those cats are siamese, others are mixed breeds but I am talking about the shorthaired ones. I am not comparing Grizzly with a Persian for example.

And that space of almost "no-hair" between eyes and ears, I've seen it in other cats, but it's not THAT hairless. 

Tell you what. I'll Google this feature and come back to you. Maybe it is some trait of some kind of a breed that might be running through our twins VEINS?   (see what I did there? or maybe it was an unsuccessful joke :eyebrows: ) 

I've heard that Havana Browns have thinner hair in those areas that other breeds. They also have thinner hair on the lower lip (Cadbury does, does Grizzly?). Since they are a breed know for chocolate color, maybe ours do have some Havana in their backgrounds?!

Or they are just a couple of baldies! LOL

 

[grizzlysapien]

Originally Posted by KKoerner  

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

OK.. lemme settle down for a bit and get my "serious" tone..

I shall look up Havana Browns then.. It's like a quest for lost relatives.. lol (the serious tone didn't last long)

Oh, one other thing! Does Cadbury use his fron paws a lot? Like.. a lot more than other cats you may have had or met? Grizzly does use them so much! It's like he's learning all about there is to know, through his front paws. While other cats I had were all about sniffing and tasting, Grizzly is all about ..."pawing"..? He is really gettin' at it!

 

[kkoerner]

Hahahaha!! A couple of baldies!! HAHAHAHAHAHAA!! I really laughed outloud with that one! Don't know why, but the Muppet Show's Old Guys came to my mind! LOL

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• grizzlysapien
• Jul 13, 2015

OK.. lemme settle down for a bit and get my "serious" tone..

I shall look up Havana Browns then.. It's like a quest for lost relatives.. lol (the serious tone didn't last long)


Oh, one other thing! Does Cadbury use his fron paws a lot? Like.. a lot more than other cats you may have had or met? Grizzly does use them so much! It's like he's learning all about there is to know, through his front paws. While other cats I had were all about sniffing and tasting, Grizzly is all about ..."pawing"..? He is really gettin' at it!

oh my! LOL

Yes, he uses his front paws like hands. He even will use just one "finger" to hook a claw into something on my plate and pull it off. He picks up new food with his paws before he will eat it. He also sometimes catches his toys with his paws in the air. This is also a Havana Brown trait... I've wondered if he may actually be a mix and not just a random bred cat, but they are rare (Havanas) and his eye color and muzzle shape isn't quite right. His attitude sure is though!

He is also talkative like a siamese cat but has a more quiet voice than they usually do. Does Grizzly talk to you?

 

[kkoerner]

On that note, you'll have to make sure you are looking at the American version of a Havana Brown and not the UK. Here, they are a separate breed but UK Havana is a chocolate Oriental Shorthair, which our guys don't resemble at all LOL

 

[grizzlysapien]

Oh my GOD! Grizzly does the same! 

Before trying anything for the first time (food, toy.. whatever) he immediately uses his claws, or paws depending on his objective. Actually he does that every time he's about to drink water 

And YES, he does catch balls, toys etc in the air with his front paws! His moves and posture in the air, resemble a side hitter or a middle blocker in volleyball (if you have no idea what I just said, please Google it! or watch some volleyball videos - you'll then know what I'm talking about! LOL) 

Ah, and the "one claw" thing.. So hillarious! It's like "detective Monk" (TV series - rings any bells?) who was always picking up everything, using a tissue..

Now, the talkative thing.. Yes! And I actually started a thread..  [thread="301582"]Do Our Cats Name Us As We Name Them​[/thread]  where I describe his vocal adventures! LOL

So, I looked up for Havana Brown (both UK and US - UK ones are indeed different) and they do have so much in common with our "baldies" hahahaha! (I call him "Baldie" sometimes -in Greek- you hit a nerve LOL) 

The shape of the ears is different and the amount of green in their eyes. Of course, Havana's seem to be solid colored cats. I actually read a line which said that "tabby Havana's are NOT concidered pure bred". That's fine, I couldn't care less! Hahaha! 

But, as you said, the behavioural aspect is very VERY similar. And they originated from Siamese and Orientals and such? I wouldn't have thought of it in a million years! 

 But it explains the extemely acute hearing and the shape of both Grizzly's and Cadbury's ears.. They are more pointy. And Grizzly's have an "upward tendency" on the edges..

 

[kkoerner]

Yeah, ghost tabby stripes are not a trait you would find in a chocolate show cat, but ours are still solids! The tabby stripes they have aren't true "tabby" Lots of pure bred kittens have them even but they go away before a year old. But we both know our cats aren't pure beds anyway so it just adds character!

I love the personality of these guys. I assume the "havana personality" is from the siamese in their history.

I saw a picture once of the very first Havana Brown brought to America, and he looked just like Cadbury. I guess years of breeding has exaggerated the ears and muzzle shape though. It was in black and white so no eye color comparisons...though I imagine he did have the green eyes that Cadbury lacks.

Either way, we have some pretty awesome cats!

 

[grizzlysapien]

We totally do! I am not fond of pure breeds, overall.. Sure most of them (if not all) are stunningly beautiful. But too many inhereted health issues.. That's a deal breaker for me. 

Plus I would never purchase an animal companion. It feels like "trafficking".. Actually.. it is trafficking! So, no way I am doing something like that. 

I always adopted. Mostly dogs.. and most of my dogs where pure breeds LOL Go figure.. But it was always by luck. My grandfather gave me a boxer (he had 2 boxers).. Then a friend gave me a Rottweiler.. Then I found a Pointer on the streets. That was when I got into a more "philozoic" mode.. Rescuing animals from the streets.. I've had outdoor cats over the years.. But after the "philozoic" mode kicked in, every pet was an indoor one. I got older, what did you expect? haha!

 

[kkoerner]

All of my dogs/cats have been rescued/adopted in one way or another.

There are many pure bred dogs in shelters here, so it doesn't even have to be by luck that you can find one! It's amazing to me the reason some of them end up there...
One time there was a Great Dane puppy brought in because the family thought he was going to stay the size he was when they got him as a 2 month old....
Another, was a little terrior mix that the people thought was going to be a big dog and when it wasn't, didn't want it.

One family returned a cat they adopted because it didn't walk on a leash at the park...

So weird.

 

[grizzlysapien]

I know.. it's like "I returned the giraffe I adopted, because it ate the leaves of my trees!" Oh, COME OOON! 

I say, it's a good thing they returned them, cause even if the animals did what these people wanted, the people would have loved them under certain conditions. So, it's better for the animals to find more suitable homes..

 

[kkoerner]

LOL well, that's true!

 

[grizzlysapien]

Hey, do you have any photos of Cadbury from when he was a baby?? I would love to see some, if it's OK with you! 

 

[kkoerner]

Unfortunately, no. I got him when he was about a year old. He may have been slightly younger than that, but not older for sure. In my job I go to local shelters and pull cats from them to take back to our rescue. He was one I pulled but then he went home with me instead of going up for adoption! This was around Easter 2015, and since he was approximately a year old, his birthday would have been April 2014.

So, I've only had him 3 months now! I wish I had cute baby pics to share!!

I have one of some others that DID go up for adoption LOL

:-D

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015
• 1

This is Cadbury in the shelter before I brought him home:

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

Him in the car, parked in front of our apartment. I let him out of his carrier because I had to sit and wait on someone. He made himself comfortable LOL:

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

And the monster once inside:

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

This is my bed right?

Yes, yes it's my bed...

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

And well, it's my whole house!

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• kkoerner
• Jul 14, 2015

 

[grizzlysapien]

I already commented in the 1st kittens' pic - they're so adorable I could eat them!   (

 does that sound creepy? )

Seeing Cadbury in the cage, almost made me cry. Tt was like looking at Grizzly in a cage. Like, what would it be for him, if we hadn't found him.. They are almost identical

Still, it's a bummer that it took almost a year for Cadbury to find his forever home.. 

Since you got him 1 year old, have you had any behavioural issues? Like aggressiveness? anything?