Took In Two 1 Yr Old Ferals

[maggiedemi]

I would pet him with something on a long handle first. Also keep the palms of your hands away, they are so hard to heal on the palm side if you get knifed by his claws.

 

[MikeAW2010]

Panda is becoming alot less fearful and ALOT more playful. I was awoken to him sprinting across my room and grappling loose fabrics with his paws and kicking them with his hind legs. Then he even went for my feet which were in the blanket and pounced on them. He's also becoming very curious about my other cats by inspecting them at the door. He will play around the cat tree and with the wand without hesitation now. He tried to initiate play with Sandy once and she just wasn't having it. Sandy is also coming out the kennel at night but usually for food and litter use only. Sometimes she will stay out longer but once she sees I notice her she basically hides in the kennel again. Panda isnt hiding from me anymore but still doesnt like when I get too close...

I went ahead and let Baxter and Rabbit in for a moment under supervision and Panda immediately took to them. He immediately tried to initiate play with Baxter. Rabbit seems to be scared of Panda and hisses at him. Panda will just ignore it or roll on his back and try to play with Rabbit. Oddly he seems alot more comfortable when my other cats are around. Sandy for now is still hiding but I was quite surprised by Panda's progress.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Please do not let the other cats into Sandy and Panda's territory yet. The biggest mistake I see is having interaction before a formal introduction process is gone through. I am most concerned about the impact on Sandy as she owns very little territory now and does not have the confidence to handle other cats scents in the room. We need to get Sandy "owning" that room and feeling confident around you before we can even start the intro process. For the most part only confident cats can really "get along" with other cats. I think Panda will go through the introduction process fine but we need to take each step to see how they react. The good news is your resident cats seems confident and good so that should make the process better. Confident cats are more likely to accept and be accepted other cats. But we need to continue working on Panda and most importantly Sandy before we start the intro process. So please do not rush getting them together. It will most likely only elongate the process and make success more difficult.

It is GREAT that Panda is playing more and feeling more comfortable. Play is the biggest builder of confidence so please keep trying to play with him. All over the room but not yet by the door leading to the other cats.

I am really happy to her about some progress from Sandy. She is starting to feel more comfortable. Great that she is coming out to eat and use the litter box but even better she is staying out longer. It is normal for her to still not be comfortable yet if you are around, move, look at her etc. BUT she will start to realize you are a positive and bring her good things (like food). And the more she sees you and you don't do anything negative to her it will help her build that trust that we need.

I think at some point I would really like to swap the kennel out for a bed. If we do that we would have to block off any areas that she could "hide" under/in. We have to be careful to make sure she is out more so she has other territory she owns before we do that. But I do want her at some point to be more "exposed" so she can see that you are no threat. Also, if you can sit on the floor by the kennel and just look anywhere but at her and talk calm, confidently and lovingly to her that could be helpful. And if you feed her some tasty treats while you are doing that that could be helpful.

I like the progress with Sandy but we still need to get more before we start to introduce the cats to the resident cats. Our goal is to make every interaction as positive as possible and avoid any negative situations. So just keep trying to do positives (play with Panda and feed Sandy) and we will build on that.

Keep up the great work but please do not rush getting the cats together yet. Not rushing helps all the cats as we don't want to harm any cat's confidence or territorial security. We'll get there but we need a solid foundation to make sure the probability of success is the highest it can be.

 

[MikeAW2010]

Okay, I'll keep trying to keep the other cats out. Panda is often by the door pawing through the bottom of it and playing with them however.

I managed to get some play in with Panda and he is getting alot closer to me while playing. I'm honestly kind of shocked. (I was playing with him for a good 10 minutes before this video and there were times he came as close as my hand on several accounts)

Sandy on the other hand, her reaction to me hasn't changed much. I'll get a bed for them on Friday and try to remove the Kennel. I'll have to take the cat tree away too though because it has a cubbyhole where she can hide.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That is great. How do the resident/existing) cats react to his pawing under the door?

I often find that the resident cats have a more difficult time adjusting as it is "their territory" that is being "invaded". So when we bring new cats in we also have to work on the resident cats building confidence and going through the introduction process for them as well. SO playing with the resident cats near (meaning 10-20feet away) the door to the new cats and starting to feed them near that door (starting maybe 20 feet away) can be a good idea to start the intro process for them and to start to make a positive association. Our goal is to make positive associations between the cats (new and resident) and make every encounter (no matter how long or short) as positive as possible and to minimize any negative encounters.

The play is FANTASTIC!!! He is looking so good and well adjusted. You can make the toy go around things to peak his interest and see how he likes it if it "flies". But he is doing fantastically. I am not at all surprised you are building trust between you both and that he has gotten closer. At some point here he is going to rub on your legs (in a few weeks probably). Just keep up the great work playing. And feed either treats or a meal after play.

Yes, Sandy will take some time. BUT this is not at all worrisome or surprising. The difficult thing will be removing the kennel as she tends to be in it a lot. And we don;t want to make it a traumatic experience. So please take your time removing the kennel. It is something we want to do but at the right appropriate time.

When we do remove the kennel we want to use that bedding or whatever is in thekennel in other parts of the room so Sandy can smell her scent on things and "own" additional territory. Scent is a great tool to use to build confidence and territorial ownership and we will be using scent during the introduction process in due time.

On the cat tree, please do not remove it. The cubbyhole is fine. If you can safely (meaning it will not tip over etc) have it by a window so they can look out at nature and prey that would be great.

Make sure that any other hiding places are blocked off however. So under your bed or a dresser or any other hiding places are blocked. We want Sandy eventually being more "exposed" but also owning territory and seeing that you (or the other cats) are positives and don;t pose any threat. It is a process but we'll get there.

So keep up the great work on Panda. Try to remove the kennel in the most positive way when the opportunity arrives and leave the cat tree and if you can safely position it by a window that would be great. Finally, adding some comfy bedding that will entice Sandy to enjoy and "own" another place in the room is very helpful.

Keep up the great work and please ask any questions as I know there is a lot of nuance here that can be a bit difficult to interpret.

GREAT JOB!!

 

[MikeAW2010]

More play with Panda. He is becoming alot more relaxed. I lay on the floor on my back when playing with him. He is getting closer to my hand which holds the string. In the middle of the play session he stopper and then pawed at my hand. I put my hand on the ground and he just looked at it and cautiously began pawing at it (not like scratching but more like trying to see what it was) then... I gave him some treats and he let me get my hand real close to him without dodging or hissing and ate the treats then turned his attention back to my hand. I wiggled a few fingers and he reflexively pounced at them, then I cautiously wiggled them around the opening of the cat tree and he began to hug the tree and pawed at them and when he caught them he didn't hiss just looked at them and sniffed them. Sandy was kind of watching from the Kennel.

My older cats will go as far as looking at Panda and Sandy and in the beginning they sniffed them, after that they plainly acted like they didn't even exist and went on about their cat lives. Ginger and Marshmallow just basically dont seem to care about them.

Baxter and Rabbit have switched roles in this instance. When I first got Rabbit he IMMEDIATELY took to Marshmallow (and still does) and was super friendly to my other cats and mainly for the most part tolerated people. Baxter in the beginning didn't like other cats but loves people, but after he met Rabbit within a week they became play mates and he gets along with my other cats too.

Here however Baxter seems to be friendly to Panda and Sandy although even he cant get close to Sandy. Panda however immediately tries to initiate play with Baxter, he seems to she no sign of fear of him. Rabbit on the other hand is the one I'm alittle more worried about. He doesnt seem to like Panda or Sandy and hisses at them and also charges my room as soon as I go inside to try to get in to see what's going on and hisses when he sees them. He wont initiate a fight or anything but he does get close to Panda, who still for the most part seems non chalant about Rabbit and even at times tries to play with him. I'm thinking (hoping) Rabbit will just need more time to adjust.

Any advice on the most peaceful way to remove the kennel would be appreciated. I cant help but remember her when I forced her to come down from the cabinets. She was shaking like a leaf. I felt bad for her and so wanted to comfort her but I knew that would end up with me becoming a living scratching post. I was thinking of getting the bedding and stuffing it in the Kennel for her to use for one more week so it will have her scent on it and then try to catch her when she's using the litter box and removing the kennel then. Another thing for Sandy is I havent gotten her vaccinations (except for Rabies) and havent had her neutered yet because she was too uncooperative at the vet. Panda had all his and even a revolution flea treatment and deawormer but I'm concerned he still may have fleas. I'm supposed to bring Sandy in on the 23rd but I'm kind of wanting her to be alittle more friendly or atleast tolerant before I do so I'm thinking of postponing it. She hasnt sprayed anything yet and I kind of doubt she will.

 

[calicosrspecial]

GREAT!! Love the play. One thing though, we don't want Panda to think of fingers as toys or prey. We want him to think of fingers and hands as something positive (giver of food). Panda wouldn't intentionally hurt a hand (unless he felt threatened) BUT he may accidentally hurt a hand or fingers through play. We really only want to encourage play with toys not hands. So please just use your hand for giving food and treats rather than play. So Panda associates hands and fingers with something positive like food and doesn't accidentally hurt you or someone else in the future.

But the play sessions are going great and I am so proud of you and Panda. This play is so important. And it is great that Sandy is watching and seeing positive interactions.

At some point Panda is going to want to rub on your legs and hand. When he does just let him do it and don't reach out to him etc. Let him be in control. Then down the road you can respond with petting. It is just a process but it sounds like he is going to love being loved.

For now let's keep them from seeing each other. We'll do scent first then sight in the intro process. But it is a good sign that they seem to be accepting so far BUT often times it is positive at the beginning and then it degrades so going through the process is very important.

That is a very common way cats go through things. A lot of times another cat helps provide the "link" to help the cats adjust. I have a cat like that that is almost like the United Nations to help the cats to get along. Given your cats temperament I am confident we can introduce them. Of course, the more cats there are it is more difficult so going through the process is important. but territorial ownership and same access to food is really important and making encounters as positive as possible and minimize any negative encounters is really important. Minimizing negative encounters especially early on is really important. And building all cats confidence. Resident and new cats both as a more confident cat is more likely to accept and be accepted.

Yes, Rabbit could be an issue. His reaction is why we tend to go through the intro process and make positive associations (using food) through scent at first then some visual and on and on. Rabbit is probably feeling a bit territorially insecure as it is "his" territory being invaded (which is understandable). Rabbit doesn't know what threat they are to his food, territory, etc so being cautious is his best strategy. We just need to keep them apart for now, work on building their confidence (through Play, Food, Height and Love), get Sandy more confident (as well as Rabbit and the other resident cats) then start the formal intro process.

This is always tricky. Given she has a vet appointment it might be best to use that kennel for her visit (since she will probably be in it when you need to take her). She does need to be spayed because that will be an issue with the other cats so I don't think I would cancel it. I know it is hard and traumatic and emotional but it is something that has to be done. Just when you close her in the kennel to take her in be as calm and confident as possible and talk to her in a loving way. She may be going crazy in the kennel (some do and some just go like a statue) but just tell her it is ok in a calm and confident and loving voice. Do you know of any vets that can handle ferals a little more in your area? If you ask any rescue groups in your area they may have vets that are better dealing with ferals more than some vets. She also will have a bit of a recovery time but she should do well during that time. But is is very important she is spayed and has all her shots. If you can get her in somewhere soon that would be the best.

I hope that helps. Please feel free to ask anything. It is just a process and taking one step at a time is really important.

Hang in there, you are doing great.

 

[MikeAW2010]

Im thinking the session with my other cats may have loosened Panda up a bit. I came home today and there's Panda laying on my bed. Guess that means I have to sleep on the couch tonight

He stayed there for a good while too.

Edit: He got up and sat by my chair while I was sitting down for awhile then started playing with the backrest.

I lost my laser pen a few days ago somehow - kind of wish I had it about now.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Panda is at home. FANTASTIC!!!

 

[MikeAW2010]

Panda's progress never ceases to surprise me. He is hissing less and less when I approach him but he's still pretty cautious. He has been sleeping on my bed alot more and playing with me alot more. I even woke up to find him sleeping on the bed while I was sleeping there.

Panda seems to really stand up for Sandy as when I go near there he will immediately go into the kennel and get in front of her. I didn't know cats acted this way.

I managed to get Sandy out the Kennel. She was pissed but luckily she mainly just jumped out of it and hissed at me as soon as I removed the top of it .. Panda got a bit more cautious but I fed him and he seemed to be okay with things later.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That is terrific. He is doing great because of the love and attention you are giving him and your emotions towards him. Cautious is a survival instinct so that is normal but as you stay calm and confident around him and build his confidence and trust (play, food, height, and love) his caution will lessen as he will realize he doesn't need to worry. The fact he was sharing the bed with you tells me so much. He is loving life!!!

Yes, cats will stand up for other cats. Panda is going to be a big help in getting Sandy to build her confidence and feel more comfortable in her new home. Just be really calm and confident around Sandy, don't stand over her or look at her, keep giving her treats and good food, keep the resident cats away and keep working on building Panda's confidence.

One question, where does that door lead to in the picture? Closet? For now make sure the bed (which is fantastic) is as far away from the door leading to the resident cats. Also, if you can put a cat tree or a scratching post or one with both (the smaller one) by the cat bed (so they can own more territory) that could be helpful.

If you have time and you feel like you can do it safely maybe sit on the floor a few feet from the bed and just sit there or give Sandy some treats (not looking at her directly) just to build a positive association. She may not eat the treats but if she doesn't just walk away and see if she eats the treats when you leave (it will still give a positive association).

Keep up the great work. Panda is doing great so what you are doing is perfect. We just need to build that trust and confidence with Sandy. Don't rush it and make any negative encounter but see if you can give her treats and build some positive association as well as maybe get a cat tree and/or a scratching post by the cat bed so they can own more territory and get more options (and make sure the bedding is not near the resident cats.

Keep up the great work. You are definitely giving them everything they need.

 

[MikeAW2010]

Panda is now starting to meow for food and he wont run away even if we're standing. He is frequently choosing my bed over his kitty bed...but I managed to catch this...

...Sandy however is hiding behind the bed. I had it against the corner but Panda moved it so she could squeeze between it and the wall.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That is great with Panda. He is really feeling comfortable and confident. Terrific. He sure is loving the bed.

Sandy. If you get an opportunity, I think I would move the bed out from the wall/corner so there isn't such a space for her to hide. It looks like there is space there. Is she responding to treats at all? That will help her. Also, keep the bed and therefore her as far away from the resident cats as possible.

How is Panda interacting with Sandy? Positively?

It does take time with some cats. We'll have to keep working on Sandy. Using food/treats especially.

 

[MikeAW2010]

The bed is far away from the door to the resident cats but she has been known to hide near that door on her own account. I will move the bed again.

Today I woke up to find Panda playing a very interesting game of cat and mouse 2 player mode with Baxter from underneath the door (the small gap between the door and the floor). Baxter had a toy mouse that he forced through the door. Panda receives it and plays with it for a moment, then pushes it back through the door where Baxter receives it and toys with it and forces it back under the door to Panda....was very interesting. Sandy moved again. Panda is starting to act more and more like a house cat and meows at me. Sandy just glares at me while laying down. Cant get her to play. She does respond to treats but I usually have to back away from her or turn away or even leave the room before she eats them.

 

[maggiedemi]

Baxter had a toy mouse that he forced through the door. Panda receives it and plays with it for a moment, then pushes it back through the door where Baxter receives it and toys with it and forces it back under the door to Panda

That is so cute! Cats are so smart.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Perfect that the bed is away from the door to the other cats. If she chooses to go by the door that is fine for her. Yes, moving it so she has to hide in the "open" will be better. I want her to realize you are not a threat and only a positive.

That is fantastic!! He is scent swapping (a part of the intro process) already!!! At least with Baxter. The great thing about ferals is they tend to know how to get along with other cats with the right process. Your building his confidence is really showing!!! Now, we'll have to make sure the resident cats accept him like Baxter has. I find it is often the resident cats that have the biggest trouble as it is "their" territory being "invaded". I am so proud of you and Panda!!

Yes, Sandy is just in that process of building trust. I deal with ferals in the wild all the time. They watch us, sense us, size us up. Food is the best way to build trust in my experience. I wouldn't push play on Sandy for now. Use food and treats. Now that is totally fine that she waits for you to back away or look away or leave the room in order to eat them. She is eating them AND she is associating you with something good. SO that is a positive. Just keep doing that and at some point just sit on the floor a bit away from her and see if she'll eat them with you siting on the floor and looking away from her. Cats can get uncomfortable if we look at them or are above them. So looking away from them (if you can do it safely) and stay low that is helpful. But as long as she is eating the treats she is making a positive association ("that person gives me good things"). Just keep working with food. She is making progress.

I do think getting her spayed will help as well for her and the resident cats so hopefully that can be done in the near future.

Keep up the great work. You are doing fantastically.

 

[maggiedemi]

I do think getting her spayed will help as well for her and the resident cats so hopefully that can be done in the near future.

Oh. I didn't know that she wasn't spayed. That will definitely help!

 

[MikeAW2010]

Good morning from Panda and Sandy.

I had an unexpected expense with Ginger and not being able to meow which ate my reserves so I wasn't able to get Sandy spayed yet. I did on the other hand sign up for pet insurance through my employer.

So I had to re-arrange some stuff in my room again because Sandy managed to get behind my computer (tons of cables, not exactly where I want her to hide). Panda isnt exactly happy. He hissed a few times during play so I gave him a few treats. When i do this i usually leave my hand on the ground while putting it fairly close to him without moving it. He will sniff it and paw at it and usually pull it closer to himself with his paws to investigate it. If it looks to him that I'm reaching for him though he will hiss.

Sandy isnt eating treats if I leave them by her and especially if I'm still around her. Sometimes she will eat the catfood while I'm still there but not always.

Any recommendations

 

[calicosrspecial]

I am so sorry about Ginger. I hope Ginger is better now or gets well very soon.

Understandable on the spaying. There are rescues that can help (and they know how to deal with ferals) and some vets offer discounts for ferals. And Humane Societies often times offer discounted spays.

Yes, it is so hard to cat proof everything. They will get into any place especially when we don't want them there. It is good you could rearrange. Hopefully that helps.

Why did Panda get upset/not happy? Why did he exactly hiss? Was it a movement towards him? It is very normal for a cat (at this point) to hiss if a persons hand comes towards or reaching to them. A hiss is just a "hey, don't do anything". It is just a verbal warning. When they build that trust then it shouldn't happen. We do want to let the cat initiate contact rather than trying to initiate contact. At some point he is going to head butt your hand. Then after a while you can be more interactive and he'll probably hiss and be cautious still but over time he'll build that trust and at some point let you pet him. Some cats do not allow petting but it is fairly rare. I think Panda is going to love love. But make sure you follow his schedule, don't force it for now.

Ok, it is normal that she is not eating the treats if you are around so just put them down and go away. It still builds a positive association and down the road you can sit 10 feet away, 5 feet away etc. Interesting she will eat the food at times with you around. It very well could be her hunger. She may not like the treats as much. Could be a few things. When you are around her stay as calm and confident as possible and act as normal as possible. Be a "cool cat" to her. The more they think "that person is cool, they don't mean harm" they then relax and get more comfortable.

Everything sounds really normal. Panda is doing really well ahead of normal and Sandy is as expected. The spaying will help her.

Just keep doing what you are doing. Play with Panda. Keep giving treats to Sandy. Make the positive association with food with her. Don't make any attempts to pet. Stay calm and confident around them. Don't stand over them or reach from above them (when giving food).

BTW, the second picture of Panda is SO ADORABLE!!! He is such a happy cat and looks so happy and ADORABLE. Sandy is a beautiful cat as well. I am highly confident that you are going to get her feel more comfortable and happy. The person is really important in the process and honestly and sincerely loving a cat is noticed by the cat. Emotions are so important in getting cats to feel more secure and confident and comfortable. I can't stress that enough. Sure play, and food and height are important but our emotions are so important. I deal with ferals and have for years and years. And I see how when I approach a cat that is unknown how my emotions affect them. I wouldn't recommend some of the things I will do to others but I have noticed the impact on them. So just let your love for them show. If a cat doesn't respond immediately it usually is the cat and not the person when that person is sincere. Where it goes wrong typically is when the person feels hurt or upset that the cat is not responding and then the cat senses that and moves away and the relationship breaks down. Being loving and accepting of a how a cat is is really helpful for them and for us.

Anyway, just keep doing what you are doing. Making positive associations, building confidence (play with Panda, food with Sandy), getting Sandy spayed when you can, stay as calm and confident and just act like everything is fine with them. Panda is doing amazingly well. Sandy is a project BUT I am highly confident that you can get her to come around. The person is so important and you obviously have "it" with cats.

Keep up the great work and we are here for you. Everything is going fine and nothing is really unexpected. I do hope Ginger gets well soon.

 

[MikeAW2010]

Baxter says Hello. (He did this to me as soon as I came in)

I'm beginning to become concerned that Sandy may be sick.

I was recording a video of Panda and Baxter playing through the door and she outbursts in coughing toward the end of the video. She did let out another cough a bit later but only briefly.