Time for a cat behaviorist...

MoonstoneWolf

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This times 10 ! :)
That video really looks like kitty is trying to rough and tumble with your feet like she wouldd with other kittys and just screams Kickaroo !
Get the big one ! (a couple of them)
I was talking to Calico. Sorry for the confusion. I know she's popped over to my other thread but wasn't sure if she read that entire thread. And yes behaviorist do work with ferals. Absolutely. But the ones in my silly state are hundreds of miles away from me. But yes you are in the correct thread. I'm sorry if I want a behaviorist as well though. :(
 

calicosrspecial

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Sorry if I didn't mention it in the from feral to lap cat thread but they were NOT living inside a house. The man left his doors open, 80 cats wandered in and out of the house several times eating. These cats were 100% feral cats. And I know this will sound controversial but taking care of these cats is making up to Pepper for what happened to her. So yes everything rides on this. Not going into detail but I was an alcoholic. Drunk and mean. Enough said on that. And to be honest I am a bit surprised by your answer. Don't caretakers and people who love cats do what they can to keep them from dying? That's exactly what is going to happen if I don't get a behaviorist here to resolve this. No one will adopt these cats. They're not kittens. And to be honest I do not trust anyone in my city to adopt with all the cat killers. Hence the need for a behaviorist. And they most certainly do good for feral cats. That's how Jackson Galaxy got started. :(
Ahhhhhh, I understand. I thought I remembered them that they were in a house. Didn't realize it was one of those situations where they go in and out in an uncontrolled setting. It is good that they are more feral BECAUSE ferals tend to have to figure out how to interact in order to survive.

I am all for taking care of ferals. I take care of a feral colony. Whatever the motivation, doing good is always good.

We all have our issues but you should be proud of overcoming alcoholism. I am glad you are doing better now. And I hope you stay sober both for you and your loved ones (humans and cats and other animals).

ABSOLUTELY!! People should do whatever they can to help save lives. TOTALLY AGREE!! All I was trying to say is the situation in an uncontrolled situation is VERY difficult. Uncontrolled situation meaning in the outdoors NOT indoors. If it was indoors we can intro anyone. Outdoors is VERY difficult as it is not able to be controlled. We can't physically separate them. We can't reduce or eliminate outside influences. We can't control what happens when we are not with them. Etc. I was trying to let you know what to expect and try to save you money as it is very difficult to achieve. Most people have money concerns so prioritizing where money is spent is important for most people. So if money is no object feel free to hire a cat behaviorist but try to have realistic expectations for the reasons I describe.

Trust me, I have been where you are. I wanted to save everyone. The only way to guarantee saving them is to bring them in AND then we still have a maximum number we can bring in without upsetting the balance.

If you can afford it I hope a behaviorist comes in and saves your outside ferals. I would LOVE to read that thread.

Just do your best and be proud of all your efforts. All we can do is our best. If we did our best and it works out GREAT and if we did everything we could and it didn't DON'T take it personal.

PLEASE do NOT be sorry for wanting to do everything you can to help your ferals. I think it is great.

If Jackson Galaxy was introing ferals in the wild with great success then he is the king. It can happen but the probability is low sadly because of the lack of constraints. Indoors ABSOLUTELY can be done. I have intro'd hundreds of ferals into homes including all of mine.

I am going to post this on your other thread as well so we can monitor the progress there.
 

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Thank you so much for saying that. This is my first cat and she seemed nothing like everyone else’s cat from the start. While she is a big pain to work on, I’ve learned so much about cats in the last year that I would have never known otherwise and Im grateful for that
Hi Kvla Kvla .....how are you and Ophelia doing?

(I just kind of smiled at the above lines you wrote....It seems like much things in life are a 'big pain to work on'....but often times the rewards are good. Even though we don't feel it at the time.
And yes, learning something new....makes me grateful, too. Usually.:read: :frustrated::blush: Though going through the whole process can be a challenge.:thud:

I'm guessing that you probably have college exams, papers,...and hopefully that relaxing and long christmas holiday break...
....so no need to hurry back and post.
Just post a few words ....when you are able to.:)
 
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Kvla

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Hi Kvla Kvla .....how are you and Ophelia doing?

(I just kind of smiled at the above lines you wrote....It seems like much things in life are a 'big pain to work on'....but often times the rewards are good. Even though we don't feel it at the time.
And yes, learning something new....makes me grateful, too. Usually.:read: :frustrated::blush: Though going through the whole process can be a challenge.:thud:

I'm guessing that you probably have college exams, papers,...and hopefully that relaxing and long christmas holiday break...
....so no need to hurry back and post.
Just post a few words ....when you are able to.:)
Thanks for asking! I got kind of confused with all the extra replies on this thread lol I am working hard on exams right now so my time with her has been more limited than usual, but this week will go by quickly and winter break is coming soon!

I'm definitely seeing progress, I just hate that it's so slow. There isn't as much biting from Ophelia and when she does bite I'm able to redirect it onto a toy as quick as possible. I've been actually studying outside of my room now (The library or educational buildings) so that I'm able to concentrate. I do less important things in my room, where i'm able to pause and work with Ophelia when she wants my attention.

I ended up teaching her how to sit on command with some treats! It was pretty cool to see her actually react and learn a trick. I started to work on touching her paw and teaching her that nail trims don't have to be so bad using treats and slowly conditioning her to be okay with her paws being held.

Still though, while I can see signs of her actually enjoying and wanting my attention. Why does she still choose to sleep with my roommate?
 

cat nap

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Thanks for asking! I got kind of confused with all the extra replies on this thread lol I am working hard on exams right now so my time with her has been more limited than usual, but this week will go by quickly and winter break is coming soon!
Hahaha...I got confused about that too...but no worries...lol.
I figured you're working hard on exams...so good on you...and good luck....but I am sure you don't need it. :biggrin:
I'm definitely seeing progress, I just hate that it's so slow. There isn't as much biting from Ophelia and when she does bite I'm able to redirect it onto a toy as quick as possible. I've been actually studying outside of my room now (The library or educational buildings) so that I'm able to concentrate. I do less important things in my room, where i'm able to pause and work with Ophelia when she wants my attention.
Yeah..."slow" seems the only word...that a cat knows. lol. Unless they hear the 'can-opener'...or they see something they like.
Seriously, though, ...that plan of studying outside of your room....to be able to concentrate,...and then having more directed time with Ophelia, while in your room,...sounds 'golden'. That is such a great idea. :thumbsup:
I ended up teaching her how to sit on command with some treats! It was pretty cool to see her actually react and learn a trick. I started to work on touching her paw and teaching her that nail trims don't have to be so bad using treats and slowly conditioning her to be okay with her paws being held.
I definitely want to see this video, or a photo, after your winter break,...when you have more time.
How you teach a cat to sit on command is beyond me. :think: That's like some smart, special, hollywood cat then.
I may see your Ophelia in the movies...then. :lol:

So good you're getting her used to you...touching her paws. That will definitely help with both nail trims,..and socializing, too.
Still though, while I can see signs of her actually enjoying and wanting my attention. Why does she still choose to sleep with my roommate?
I honestly think...that it is just 'location'.
She probably likes the location of that particular bed.
It could be laundry detergent, too. Or your roommate's scent, lotion, etc.

I sometimes think that our cats...are like the smartest...in that they will 'use...all of the people around them'...for various tasks and duties. It's not like they choose just one person. They spread their scent around, and spend time with various people, or alone in various locations,...to be able to comfortably know that they will have a 'whole crew'....to watch over them. Or maybe they just like watching over all their territory...and your roommate is a part of that.

I'm kind of odd....in the sense that...yes...I do like my cats sleeping with me...sometimes...but usually they will wake me...very early.
So I rather they sleep with my sister, or elsewhere. (My dog sleeps at the foot of my bed, but he does not tend to wake me at 5am like the cats do.)

Maybe Ophelia does not want to wake you, so she sleeps with her, instead.
Do you toss and turn, in your sleep...(I know my female cat hates when I do that.)
 

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When she would get out of control I’d wrap her in a blanket and hold her firmly in my lap with my chin to the top of her head and tell her in a calm, low voice to stop biting and get calm. It worked.
I wonder how it is possible that all you and others have tried and done, worked, and when I do the same it doesn't.
The blanket wrapping is what the vet adviced me to do, but the kitten writhes and wiggles out of it in no time. And restaining her doesn't work either, she screams and fights.
It's a nightmare!
 

MoonstoneWolf

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Cooper is scared of blankets and towels. I'm wondering if he was abused somehow by them but if I pull out a blanket or towel he goes into full attack
 

calicosrspecial

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Thanks for asking! I got kind of confused with all the extra replies on this thread lol I am working hard on exams right now so my time with her has been more limited than usual, but this week will go by quickly and winter break is coming soon!

I'm definitely seeing progress, I just hate that it's so slow. There isn't as much biting from Ophelia and when she does bite I'm able to redirect it onto a toy as quick as possible. I've been actually studying outside of my room now (The library or educational buildings) so that I'm able to concentrate. I do less important things in my room, where i'm able to pause and work with Ophelia when she wants my attention.

I ended up teaching her how to sit on command with some treats! It was pretty cool to see her actually react and learn a trick. I started to work on touching her paw and teaching her that nail trims don't have to be so bad using treats and slowly conditioning her to be okay with her paws being held.

Still though, while I can see signs of her actually enjoying and wanting my attention. Why does she still choose to sleep with my roommate?
Wow, I actually think this is pretty fast progress!!! You are definitely doing the right things!!! I LOVE that you can redirect her. That tells us that is is not directed at you in a bad way but in a wanting to play way.

Keep up the great work!!

Cats are creatures of habit. So they tend to do the same thing (like sleep with your roommate). Cats like heat so that could be why she choose her first, or the feeling of the bed, or the location, or the movement or lack thereof (as cat nap mentions). I would not take it personal at all. Some of my cats sleep with me others never do. It is just the way they are. Ophelia loves you, no doubt in my mind. Mine love me as well. It is not about love or not loving. And that is witnessed by how she wants your attention.

Good luck on the exams and keep up the great work with Ophelia. You are doing fantastically!!
 

calicosrspecial

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I wonder how it is possible that all you and others have tried and done, worked, and when I do the same it doesn't.
The blanket wrapping is what the vet adviced me to do, but the kitten writhes and wiggles out of it in no time. And restaining her doesn't work either, she screams and fights.
It's a nightmare!
I think there are 2 different kinds of biting - Play/Attention biting and Aggression/fear biting. If it is play driven then distracting is a good idea as well as communicating hurt ("ouch" etc). If it is aggression/fear driven then not cornering them, standing over them, staring at them etc is the best way to handle

It is all about tailoring the actions to the cats personality. Try to make it as positive as possible. So if she doesn't like something don't do it and try something else. I am not an expert on biting as I don't experience it often but I would just try to build confidence, distract, make positive associations. Cats typically don't want to bite or just need to learn that play biting is not acceptable and changing the perception of feet, hands, arms etc from toys or potential play things to not toys.

You will get your cat to stop biting or curb it (my one girl likes to nibble never even causing any discomfort but she still does it but I don;t worry as it is nothing). Just keep working on using different methods.
 
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Kvla

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We were making so much progress. This is so frustrating. I was sitting on the ground doing something not important on the computer. She bit my arm lightly. I scolded her with a stern “no” and turned my back to her. When she seemed to have calmed down I turned back around and her tail started to swish violently and then she lunged and attacked my arm, causing me to bleed.

I played with her 20 minutes this morning after my shower like I’ve been doing and have been working with treats all the time. Ugh!!
 

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calicosrspecial

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I know you are experienced but just make sure you wash it thoroughly.

Which picture(s) are of the first bite? Then which are from after she was scolded?

The first bite was a play/I want attention bite?

How different was the second bite? More intense?

It sounds like something may have amped her up a bit. The second picture looks like the worst and it looks like you may have pulled away and it caused the bite to be a little worse.

I am thinking Ophelia needs to have a softer response in order to de-escalate things. It seems like she may not respond to stern language and changes in behavior (did you turn away more quickly than usual)?

Unfortunately I am guessing as to what may have happened but I have seen the situation in my mind a lot. They do something naughty (though restrained) then the response escalates the situation and the next thing is a little worse. It doesn't look that deep but it does look like the tooth did drag (probably when you naturally pulled away). It does seem like she didn't want to hurt but maybe on the second one wanted to make a point.

Do you think when you turned back around that she may have feared some response? That she may have felt threatened?

How were your emotions when this happened? Were you angry? Just upset? Did you move faster? Did you feel fear of her? How different were your emotions at this moment vs when you were on the computer before she did anything?

:( Try to think about everything and why she may have responded like that. I have seen many cats need a softer response to negative behavior. I am thinking Ophelia is in this camp so de-escalating is going to be really important.

This is not a big setback. Disappointing yes but things like this do happen. It does not overshadow all the progress you are making.
 
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Kvla

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I know you are experienced but just make sure you wash it thoroughly.

Which picture(s) are of the first bite? Then which are from after she was scolded?

The first bite was a play/I want attention bite?

How different was the second bite? More intense?

It sounds like something may have amped her up a bit. The second picture looks like the worst and it looks like you may have pulled away and it caused the bite to be a little worse.

I am thinking Ophelia needs to have a softer response in order to de-escalate things. It seems like she may not respond to stern language and changes in behavior (did you turn away more quickly than usual)?

Unfortunately I am guessing as to what may have happened but I have seen the situation in my mind a lot. They do something naughty (though restrained) then the response escalates the situation and the next thing is a little worse. It doesn't look that deep but it does look like the tooth did drag (probably when you naturally pulled away). It does seem like she didn't want to hurt but maybe on the second one wanted to make a point.

Do you think when you turned back around that she may have feared some response? That she may have felt threatened?

How were your emotions when this happened? Were you angry? Just upset? Did you move faster? Did you feel fear of her? How different were your emotions at this moment vs when you were on the computer before she did anything?

:( Try to think about everything and why she may have responded like that. I have seen many cats need a softer response to negative behavior. I am thinking Ophelia is in this camp so de-escalating is going to be really important.

This is not a big setback. Disappointing yes but things like this do happen. It does not overshadow all the progress you are making.
The bite marks of her first bite are on my left hand and aren’t pictured. All those pictured are ones from the second bites.

The first bite was probably a I want to play/give me attention bite, and the second one might’ve been out of fear when I scolded her because her ears went back and her eyes got big.

Yeah, it was more intense. I tried it twice which is why both my arms got beat up. She doesn’t seem to like to be talked to in a stern voice. Earlier in the thread I mentioned how that always seemed to make her angry. I could definitely tell the difference between the two attacks.

I don’t think I moved any quicker than normal. I just calmly put my back to her for a couple seconds. She walked closer to me when I did that and sat and watched with her tail flicking. After she bit me, I was upset and a little frustrated. It hurt, but before I felt calm. I was sitting on the floor so I could be near her and at her level and I was scrolling on facebook. I actually had to leave shortly after she did this for class, and when I returned my emotions were definitely calmed down. I didn’t feel as scared and she came up to me tail high. And when I leaned over in my chair she came and sat on my back for a while.
I’ll continue to work on deescalating her without using a stern voice.
 

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We were making so much progress. This is so frustrating. I was sitting on the ground doing something not important on the computer. She bit my arm lightly. I scolded her with a stern “no” and turned my back to her. When she seemed to have calmed down I turned back around and her tail started to swish violently and then she lunged and attacked my arm, causing me to bleed.
This is frustrating. And those scratches and bitemarks look painful. (Cat scratches always feel like 'paper cuts' to me...so I can only wince, seeing those photos.) And yes, remember to wash them out well, soap, water, apply either alcohol, antiseptic, salt-water, whatever you have. Then I use either aloe vera gel, vitamin E lotion, or even over-the-counter antibiotic cream (walmart). I guess it depends on your skin, and as long as you are not allergic or badly react to any products. I usually ask the pharmacist what they recommend.
I was sitting on the floor so I could be near her and at her level and I was scrolling on facebook. I actually had to leave shortly after she did this for class, and when I returned my emotions were definitely calmed down. I didn’t feel as scared and she came up to me tail high. And when I leaned over in my chair she came and sat on my back for a while.
I'm thinking that Ophelia seems to attack you more aggressively when you are actually 'sitting on the floor' and doing something.
I don't know if Ophelia is triggered by the actual sitting...or the moving your hands over the computer....which she thinks is a game.
(I know my cats find it fascinating when my sister is doing floor exercises, yoga, stretches, etc.....on her yoga mat. But they are more curious and get in her way, then want to play.)

Can you maybe 'not sit on the floor', and see what happens?
Or if you do, can you have a 'towel'....or 'bed sheet', pillow, near you,...so you could 'block her attack'.
Ophelia will probably still think it's a game, though.

(If it were me....I would definitely have 'yelped' and 'whimpered'...just to see Ophelia's reaction.
Problem is...doing it on the floor....would offer you no protection.)

***There has to be something to get her to stop her 'attack-mode'....even if it is in play.

I really liked what Animal Freak Animal Freak wrote in post #49....about Ophelia seeing you as a 'large toy'....and 'not having respect'.
She wrote it better, though. And using the "1-2-3 Method".....of "Observing, Entertaining, and Training".
Also the part of 'using mental stimulation'...in tiring an animal out, too,....using and making food puzzles.

Homemade Puzzles - Food Puzzles for Cats
(the above link was provided by Furballsmom ..and also Hellenww.)
(I just did a "search" for 'cat food puzzles'....in the upper right hand corner...and you get many threads that mention them.)

And when I leaned over in my chair she came and sat on my back for a while.
She actually 'sat on your back'...and did not scratch you or anything??
Ophelia is so confusing. But then a love bug, too. :stars: :lovecat2:
She "plays-attacks"....one minute, ....then later calms down....and sits on your back.

(ETA: I wonder if Ophelia felt bad....for the 'extremely rough playing, before'....and did not intend to hurt you, ...
and then wants to sit on your back, to get close to you?
People say that cats 'live in the moment'....but then they also 'remember things from the past, too.'...so it would make sense that Ophelia likely still does not know how to play...gently....gets too amped up....and afterwards....wants the closeness of her human.

I definitely want to hear what C calicosrspecial ....is going to say about this one. :bluepaw:
 
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The above post is spot on. I was thinking of what advice to give but I’ll just echo what Cat Nap said about sitting on the floor. My cat was the same way, especially with my son who she saw as her playmate more so than me. And he had a habit of laying on the floor a lot and she’d randomly jump him out of nowhere, even if she’d had her play time. She also would do the same to me if I were doing floor exercises like crunches. She just saw the level playing field as playtime and didn’t comprehend that we might be doing something else. When I’d workout out I’d keep a handful of her toys around by me and toss them so she’d run if she started getting aggressive. Think proactive. Not reactive. Good luck. And try not to let setbacks bring you down.
 

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Just a side note I recently got a kitten who couldn’t be less like my older cat and the older cat is not happy. So it’s good to remember where she came from and how far she came. Some of these tricks may have to come back out of my bag. The introduction process hasn’t been easy with her. And the aggression gets directed towards me not really the kitten.
 

calicosrspecial

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The bite marks of her first bite are on my left hand and aren’t pictured. All those pictured are ones from the second bites.

The first bite was probably a I want to play/give me attention bite, and the second one might’ve been out of fear when I scolded her because her ears went back and her eyes got big.

Yeah, it was more intense. I tried it twice which is why both my arms got beat up. She doesn’t seem to like to be talked to in a stern voice. Earlier in the thread I mentioned how that always seemed to make her angry. I could definitely tell the difference between the two attacks.

I don’t think I moved any quicker than normal. I just calmly put my back to her for a couple seconds. She walked closer to me when I did that and sat and watched with her tail flicking. After she bit me, I was upset and a little frustrated. It hurt, but before I felt calm. I was sitting on the floor so I could be near her and at her level and I was scrolling on facebook. I actually had to leave shortly after she did this for class, and when I returned my emotions were definitely calmed down. I didn’t feel as scared and she came up to me tail high. And when I leaned over in my chair she came and sat on my back for a while.
I’ll continue to work on deescalating her without using a stern voice.
Ok. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being serious/deep/infection and 1 being no break in skin where do you think this one is? And where do you think this one is relative to the other bites you had?

Yes, if her ears went back and her eyes got big then it was more defensive. Now, it is hard to tell from the pictures but they don't seem like the total fear/existential threat bite. BUT it is serious.

Yes, we are going to have to be "softer" in communicating the displeasure as she does not respond well to more "aggressive" responses. So try to work on de-escalating the situation. A softer "no". No gestures towards her. Not being above her (can be standing but further away so it is not above her). Things like that.

How similar was the second "attack" to the nail cap etc incidents?

I wonder if putting your back to her caused her to get more in hunting mode. Almost like prey. And anytime something is "different" a cat can get more cautious. Cats like routines and like things the same so anything out of the ordinary can cause a cat to be on "alert".

Also, I am sure your adrenaline was more prevalent. Cats can sense changes in emotions and that can put a cat on heightened alert. Of course, it is normal that we respond in certain ways. But it can be a source of escalation.

"when I returned my emotions were definitely calmed down. I didn’t feel as scared and she came up to me tail high. And when I leaned over in my chair she came and sat on my back for a while" - This tells me it was something in that moment and not some overriding fear or dislike of you. Something caused her to feel like she had to get defensive, to possibly protect herself. Keep thinking of what exactly happened before the 2nd bite and how it may have caused some anxiety in her. And then try to de-escalate it next time.

I too agree that being on the floor may be causing her to think "playtime". Especially since she likes to go after moving ankles, pants, etc.

I think this was just one of those unfortunate situations (I don't want to minimize a cat bite). It was like being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The one time you speed there is a cop there. Things like that. She may have been amped in play mode and it escalated and resulted in a bite. I think it was pretty much contained in that moment. Try not to repeat anything you did that time. I am guessing she will respond differently. But let's see. I just don't get a sense it is you as a person. She seems to love you.
 
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Kvla

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This is frustrating. And those scratches and bitemarks look painful. (Cat scratches always feel like 'paper cuts' to me...so I can only wince, seeing those photos.) And yes, remember to wash them out well, soap, water, apply either alcohol, antiseptic, salt-water, whatever you have. Then I use either aloe vera gel, vitamin E lotion, or even over-the-counter antibiotic cream (walmart). I guess it depends on your skin, and as long as you are not allergic or badly react to any products. I usually ask the pharmacist what they recommend.

I'm thinking that Ophelia seems to attack you more aggressively when you are actually 'sitting on the floor' and doing something.
I don't know if Ophelia is triggered by the actual sitting...or the moving your hands over the computer....which she thinks is a game.
(I know my cats find it fascinating when my sister is doing floor exercises, yoga, stretches, etc.....on her yoga mat. But they are more curious and get in her way, then want to play.)

Can you maybe 'not sit on the floor', and see what happens?
Or if you do, can you have a 'towel'....or 'bed sheet', pillow, near you,...so you could 'block her attack'.
Ophelia will probably still think it's a game, though.

(If it were me....I would definitely have 'yelped' and 'whimpered'...just to see Ophelia's reaction.
Problem is...doing it on the floor....would offer you no protection.)

***There has to be something to get her to stop her 'attack-mode'....even if it is in play.

I really liked what Animal Freak Animal Freak wrote in post #49....about Ophelia seeing you as a 'large toy'....and 'not having respect'.
She wrote it better, though. And using the "1-2-3 Method".....of "Observing, Entertaining, and Training".
Also the part of 'using mental stimulation'...in tiring an animal out, too,....using and making food puzzles.

Homemade Puzzles - Food Puzzles for Cats
(the above link was provided by Furballsmom ..and also Hellenww.)
(I just did a "search" for 'cat food puzzles'....in the upper right hand corner...and you get many threads that mention them.)


She actually 'sat on your back'...and did not scratch you or anything??
Ophelia is so confusing. But then a love bug, too. :stars: :lovecat2:
She "plays-attacks"....one minute, ....then later calms down....and sits on your back.

(ETA: I wonder if Ophelia felt bad....for the 'extremely rough playing, before'....and did not intend to hurt you, ...
and then wants to sit on your back, to get close to you?
People say that cats 'live in the moment'....but then they also 'remember things from the past, too.'...so it would make sense that Ophelia likely still does not know how to play...gently....gets too amped up....and afterwards....wants the closeness of her human.

I definitely want to hear what C calicosrspecial ....is going to say about this one. :bluepaw:
I didn't think of that! I love to sit on the floor haha, but I'll definitely keep that in mind! I'll make sure not to sit on the floor as much as I can help it unless I'm playing with her, at least for while we're working on bonding and our routine.

Many dogs at the jobs I've had, have had things called slow-down feeders to help when dogs eat their meals too fast, I never really thought of them as working the mind, but now that I think of certain slow-down feeders I can see it. I also saw most of them as costing a lot of money, but after going through that thread, looking on Pinterest and other research, I realize now that you can make your own! I excitedly finished a roll of toilet paper, folded it up, and cut out holes. I poured the dry food in and I left it out. She didn't touch it much and I think it was because she wasn't hungry. I've been working on getting her back on a feeding schedule since then. It sucks though pulling the wet food when she doesn't eat it, just because it's expensive. And usually I finish a can a day, but with pulling the bowls at certain times she hasn't been eating a can of wet food a day. It worries me that she isn't eating as much and it sucks when the wet food goes bad. Is it okay to wrap it and put it in the fridge until the next feeding do you think? I've also been feeding her 4 times a day because the thread I read to start with 8-10 meals a day if you can, but with winter break here I'll be home a lot more to monitor her eating. They also recommend I leave out a bowl of dry food at night, but I'm not sure that would help transition her because she might want to wait until nighttime to eat the dry food. Should I post about this in the Cat Nutrition forum?

Sometimes it really does feel like she loves me! Here's the picture of her on my back :)
kitty.jpg


Ok. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being serious/deep/infection and 1 being no break in skin where do you think this one is? And where do you think this one is relative to the other bites you had?

Yes, if her ears went back and her eyes got big then it was more defensive. Now, it is hard to tell from the pictures but they don't seem like the total fear/existential threat bite. BUT it is serious.

Yes, we are going to have to be "softer" in communicating the displeasure as she does not respond well to more "aggressive" responses. So try to work on de-escalating the situation. A softer "no". No gestures towards her. Not being above her (can be standing but further away so it is not above her). Things like that.

How similar was the second "attack" to the nail cap etc incidents?

I wonder if putting your back to her caused her to get more in hunting mode. Almost like prey. And anytime something is "different" a cat can get more cautious. Cats like routines and like things the same so anything out of the ordinary can cause a cat to be on "alert".

Also, I am sure your adrenaline was more prevalent. Cats can sense changes in emotions and that can put a cat on heightened alert. Of course, it is normal that we respond in certain ways. But it can be a source of escalation.

"when I returned my emotions were definitely calmed down. I didn’t feel as scared and she came up to me tail high. And when I leaned over in my chair she came and sat on my back for a while" - This tells me it was something in that moment and not some overriding fear or dislike of you. Something caused her to feel like she had to get defensive, to possibly protect herself. Keep thinking of what exactly happened before the 2nd bite and how it may have caused some anxiety in her. And then try to de-escalate it next time.

I too agree that being on the floor may be causing her to think "playtime". Especially since she likes to go after moving ankles, pants, etc.

I think this was just one of those unfortunate situations (I don't want to minimize a cat bite). It was like being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The one time you speed there is a cop there. Things like that. She may have been amped in play mode and it escalated and resulted in a bite. I think it was pretty much contained in that moment. Try not to repeat anything you did that time. I am guessing she will respond differently. But let's see. I just don't get a sense it is you as a person. She seems to love you.
The bite hurt like a 6-7. The deep wound I got from a cat at work that bit me, I didn't feel much I think because of adrenaline, so I couldn't compare it to that. The bites she's done on me in the past haven't stung past the initial bite. I left to go to a class for an hour, and when I was coming back my arms still stung to the touch. The biggest scratch still hurts to touch. Most of them disappeared, but there a couple scratches still on my arm that don't hurt at all. Those are more normal to what I would usually get.
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In an attempt to avoid using a stern voice, or coming off as angry or threatening to her, I started saying "hey" in a calm way that usually got her attention in the past, to get her to stop and look up at me for a minute while I quickly grab a toy or laser and get her to play for a couple minutes. We've gotten really good at this lately and have been able to redirect her biting quickly almost everytime. I noticed sometimes now when she rolls over on my foot to bunny-kick, she won't bite my ankle, she'll simple do the action with no teeth. Now, if I were to reach down for her she would probably jump up and bite my hand. I do have one of those bunny-kicking toys, but she was only interested in it when there was catnip in it, now she could care less lol. I keep thinking I should have my mom open it and sew it back so I can refill it.

Since that incident, I've been moving very slow around her and talking in a sweet voice and it's seemed to help. When she comes up on my laptop, even if I'm not doing anything important, she steps on all my keys and sometimes toggles things on and off like my keyboard, which sends me on an adventure to figure out how to fix it. I've been trying to redirect her off of my laptop too. Knowing that it probably means she wants my attention and in an attempt to not let my cat break my laptop, I've been leading her off with a toy or the laser. She will follow that laser pointer anywhere so it's pretty helpful in redirecting I found! lol

I'm worried about two things:
1. This laser pointer has been really good at getting her back from dangerous situations, like when she's escaped outside or when I need to quickly bring her into a room, but can't catch her. We had a routine at one point of playing laser everyday for like 30-40 minutes right before bed. When I would lay down, I would often catch her sitting on the ground just watching me, waiting for me to take the laser pointer out. It was super cute and only took a couple days before she started to do that. Like the other toys she's had, the sparkly balls, the bunny-kick, certain wand attachments, she gets bored of it. Would she tire out of the laser pointer if I use it so much throughout the day to redirect her?
2. Also, somebody had mentioned that you can build a cat's stamina the same way you can build a dog's. Since learning that, I've been afraid to play with her more than an hour to an hour and a half everyday. How likely is that to happen? I don't want to make the situation worse by getting an every more energetic cat that needs even more playtime. I also don't want to cheat her of getting enough exercise and playtime.

Thank you!
 

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Sometimes it really does feel like she loves me! Here's the picture of her on my back :)
Oh, wow, that photo is awesome. :thumbsup:
(It kind of looks like your cat is doing some 'college work', while her human is taking a quick nap.)

How did you teach her to do that?
It's adorable. :blush: Idk...I'd call that love.
 
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cat nap

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Many dogs at the jobs I've had, have had things called slow-down feeders to help when dogs eat their meals too fast, I never really thought of them as working the mind, but now that I think of certain slow-down feeders I can see it. I also saw most of them as costing a lot of money, but after going through that thread, looking on Pinterest and other research, I realize now that you can make your own! I excitedly finished a roll of toilet paper, folded it up, and cut out holes. I poured the dry food in and I left it out. She didn't touch it much and I think it was because she wasn't hungry.
Yeah, I never really thought of the 'slow-down feeders', or 'food puzzles' as working the mind, either. :think:
I'm glad that Animal Freak Animal Freak posted those ideas.

(I'm actually using her method now, of the 1-2-3, observing, entertaining, training,...to teach my 7 year old, big black lab/retriever dog, to actually 'let the ball go'...after he goes and fetches it. My dog does not like to let it go,...he just wants you to chase him, to get it.:lol:)

(I like it when someone mentions ideas, and breaks them down in simple steps. It's easier for me to follow it, then.) :)

I haven't tried the 'dry food in the toilet paper-roll' yet,....with my 2 cats.
I had bought them an inexpensive plastic toy, where you also put dry food inside....but just like Ophelia, they just didn't really want to move it. :ohwell: :dunno: haha. I had to move it for them. And get the cat treats, or dry kibble out. :lol:
(I swear our cats train us better,...then we do them. They are so smart.)
I've been working on getting her back on a feeding schedule since then. It sucks though pulling the wet food when she doesn't eat it, just because it's expensive. And usually I finish a can a day, but with pulling the bowls at certain times she hasn't been eating a can of wet food a day. It worries me that she isn't eating as much and it sucks when the wet food goes bad. Is it okay to wrap it and put it in the fridge until the next feeding do you think?
Yes, I put wet food in the fridge.

I end up adding a little water, from the hot-water tap, or re-heat it slightly, in the microwave...
(though I know that some members here, have said that the microwave is not good for re-heating cat food...I don't remember why.)

You can also add a little warm water from the kettle, or hot-water tap, to the wet food.
I just always make sure that the re-heated wet food, is not hot....so as not to burn my cats' tongue, or mouth.
I just test it with my small finger, and mix it with a fork. My cats only like pate, though.
I've also been feeding her 4 times a day because the thread I read to start with 8-10 meals a day if you can, but with winter break here I'll be home a lot more to monitor her eating. They also recommend I leave out a bowl of dry food at night, but I'm not sure that would help transition her because she might want to wait until nighttime to eat the dry food. Should I post about this in the Cat Nutrition forum?
8-10 meals a day?...I'm not really understanding that?
Oh, ...so you are trying to transition Ophelia to only wet food?

Yeah, probably better to post in the Cat Nutrition forum.
I'm totally rubbish when it comes to answering cat nutrition.

(I feed my cats both wet and dry. They are 5.5 years old...one male, one female...siblings.)
(But I am trying to transition them to eat better quality dry and wet food. They are very specific, though. More so the female.
They actually pick out the older food, that they are used to, and do not like the taste of the new food, even when mixing it with one quarter to three quarters old food. How they can actually pick out the different size, and shape, of dry kibble is beyond me.)
 
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Kvla

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Oh, wow, that photo is awesome. :thumbsup:
(It kind of looks like your cat is doing some 'college work', while her human is taking a quick nap.)

How did you teach her to do that?
It's adorable. :blush: Idk...I'd call that love.
I wish I had taught her! She just did it a couple times!
And thanks for the info! I'll definitely post in the nutrition part of the forum to get some advice on scheduled feedings. :)
 
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