Three Months Later And Need Help With New Kitty!

Mickpest

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Hello and happy Thursday!
We adopted a beautiful 9 month old neutered male cat in early February after losing one of our cats last November. We also have a resident 9 year old neutered male cat. We did the very slow intro process that was extended as our resident cat is a bit skittish, our new boy was found to have a parasitic infection and due to travel commitments, etc... We finally did get them fully together for about a week, but the new guy took to chasing our resident cat and increasingly biting him, and finally ended up in full on cat fight, so now back to the beginning. The vet put our new guy on amitriptyline as he had become very skittish, nervous, pacing, and had developed diarrhea over the blowup between the two. We started the cracked door thing again at the recommended two weeks, and they seem fine, but I am actually afraid that this reintro process could drag out too long and cause more problems. I really think it would have been better to start getting them together a week ago, just gauging their behavior, but am really trying to go with what the behaviorist and vet say. Does anyone out there think that waiting too long to introduce/reintroduce can actually create more problems?
 

moorspede

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The breeder of one of my cats kept on insisting that I should put my cats in a room together and let them work it out and that extending the process is detrimental to their relationship. I've never read or heard of any evidence bearing this out and most behaviourists will tell you a gradual process in the cats' own time is much better.

Did you site swap last time? I really do suggest it so that your new kitten gets used to the space again without the resident cat in it. He's got to own the space, cats are often aggressive when they are fearful. Playing interactive games, affection and treats will help build his confidence.

Your resident cat will need places to get away from the kitten, places like cat trees, perches in front of windows etc. You will need to supervise them when they are together. Kittens have a lot more energy, they annoy older cats. Playing interactively with a wand toy or a laser pointer will expend energy, hopefully it will be less likely to bother the older cat.

If you see your kitten getting ready to attack the older cat you could say "No" in an authoritative voice, clap your hands, or throw something soft in it's general direction (don't hit it). I used to separate my cats for a few minutes when things became intense. They don't have a big attention span, they tend to wander off and do something else.

Jackson Galaxy has a vid on youtube called "The best way to introduce your cat". It has some great tips and may be more to your liking?

This site has an article which leads you to other articles, they all have great tips:
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
 
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Mickpest

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The breeder of one of my cats kept on insisting that I should put my cats in a room together and let them work it out and that extending the process is detrimental to their relationship. I've never read or heard of any evidence bearing this out and most behaviourists will tell you a gradual process in the cats' own time is much better.

Did you site swap last time? I really do suggest it so that your new kitten gets used to the space again without the resident cat in it. He's got to own the space, cats are often aggressive when they are fearful. Playing interactive games, affection and treats will help build his confidence.

Your resident cat will need places to get away from the kitten, places like cat trees, perches in front of windows etc. You will need to supervise them when they are together. Kittens have a lot more energy, they annoy older cats. Playing interactively with a wand toy or a laser pointer will expend energy, hopefully it will be less likely to bother the older cat.

If you see your kitten getting ready to attack the older cat you could say "No" in an authoritative voice, clap your hands, or throw something soft in it's general direction (don't hit it). I used to separate my cats for a few minutes when things became intense. They don't have a big attention span, they tend to wander off and do something else.

Jackson Galaxy has a vid on youtube called "The best way to introduce your cat". It has some great tips and may be more to your liking?

This site has an article which leads you to other articles, they all have great tips:
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
Thanks so much for your response.
Yes, we have done site swapping, on and off since the beginning. And since putting our new boy on the medication, he has still been allowed the run of the house for 4-6 hours per day while the other resident cat is on another floor. We have tried just about everything else including dropping keys, yelling no, hissing, clapping, etc...with the chase and attack issue. The problem is, any of these techniques startles the resident cat more, causing him to bolt which then results in the new cat chasing more. Yes, the Jackson Galaxy videos are excellent, and think I have pretty much done everything he recommends, and have used a lot of the spirit essences as well as have tried the other line of flower essences with no real improvement for either cat. We have lots of toys, and trees. In fact, the "big fall-out" as we refer to it now, was over a particular cat tree (we think!). We have removed the tree per the behaviorists suggestion. The one thing we haven't done is do the short separation, or time out. I think we are planning on going forward tonight with a very short loose, face to face with the boys. We have had 4 baby gate sessions with no real issues, maybe just a couple of limited play bats through the gate from the new guy while he was laying down, so think that they ready. We are prepared to just keep it short and if at any time there is an issue, we will pick up the new guy and put him in a small room for 5 minutes, as you mention. Even with that, we are thinking to keep these sessions short and frequent so that hopefully we can get the point across to our little guy what is acceptable and what is not, while still giving the older guy some time to recoup! :)
 

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I don't think you can go to slowly when introducing cats - the worst that can happen is that they get bored and uninterested in each other, which is pretty close to what we're going for in most introductions. It sounds like you've done all the prep work, so if you're able to supervise and prepared to keep the interaction short, I don't see any harm in trying for another face to face. I think it's a great idea to give them breaks after each session - then if there was any tension from either cat, they have a chance to calm down in thier own spaces.
 
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Mickpest

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I don't think you can go to slowly when introducing cats - the worst that can happen is that they get bored and uninterested in each other, which is pretty close to what we're going for in most introductions. It sounds like you've done all the prep work, so if you're able to supervise and prepared to keep the interaction short, I don't see any harm in trying for another face to face. I think it's a great idea to give them breaks after each session - then if there was any tension from either cat, they have a chance to calm down in thier own spaces.
Thanks!
 
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Mickpest

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Update to "three months later and need help with new kitty!" I just saw the vet this morning to discuss the medication we have Mickey on for stress related to resident cat Pesto. We had a long discussion on how likely it is that these two will ever get together, and when I asked her what her honest opinion was, she said that even if both cats were on anxiety relieving medication she would only give it a 30% chance of them being able to cohabitate safely at this point, and even if they could ever become part of that 30% they would likely never be friends. I am so disheartened as we have worked so hard at getting these two cats together. I hate the thought of giving Mickey up, but I also hate the thought of him never having a home that he loves and is happy in because he is always anxious about the other cat. Does anyone out there have any experience with cats who couldn't be together after 3 months, but eventually get together in the end?
Heart is breaking!
 
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Mickpest

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I spent a lot of time on Wednesday thinking about that mornings discussion with my vet and her opinion that my new guy only had about a 30% chance of being able to cohabitate with my resident cat at best, and only if Pesto was also put on the same meds. I spent a huge part of the day crying at the thought of having to give up Mickey, but then I decided to step back and really analyze, without thinking about what "should" work, the times where I actually saw any glimmer of positive interactions between the two cats over the last 3 months. The process made me realize something kind of amazing and perplexing. Every time I could think of where their interactions didn't result in chasing, hissing, growling, etc...was when they were seemingly alone together. Not that they really were alone, but to them it probably seemed that neither my husband nor myself were around. Usually this was only for brief moments, but I glommed on to the notion like an exhausted swimmer thrown a life preserver! At this point I don't want to jinx it, but lets just say that I have had the two boys together on three separate "outings" over the last two days without any serious problems. The number of hisses I have heard I can count on one hand, no apparent growling, and chases so slow (2) that I would have a hard time calling them chases. Best of all, neither cat really shows any distress and have caught them giving each a brief lick on the head and engaging in something that I think looks an awful lot like play. I am waiting to see if I can keep reproducing the results, especially now that the hubby will be home all weekend which changes up the dynamics as well. When I have a sense that this is working with a certain predictability I will post the results!! :)
 

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The process made me realize something kind of amazing and perplexing. Every time I could think of where their interactions didn't result in chasing, hissing, growling, etc...was when they were seemingly alone together. Not that they really were alone, but to them it probably seemed that neither my husband nor myself were around.
I have caught my cats sleeping together on our bed and in a little bed in the front window and generally just hanging out together, but as soon as I start petting one the other one pushes in for pets too, and then pretty soon Duncan, who we've had longer, starts pushing the other guy around and wrestling with him. I swear Duncan is jealous - or maybe I'm just a piece of territory he doesn't want to concede.
 
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Mickpest

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This is so true! I think sometimes it is easy to just keep doing the cat training steps and we forget that animals, and I think especially cats, are very capable of jealousy. I have had everything from seahorses to the full sized land versions, and I think every one of them displayed jealousy at one point or another. Ok, maybe not the seahorses, but certainly parakeets, dogs, and horses. Right now I am working very hard to not acknowledge either cat to get them through this time. By removing myself from the equation, they are more eager to find comfort in each other, which I think has to happen first. Of course I lavish the love when they are separated from each other! :)
 

moorspede

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That's great news, it took about six to eight months for mine to be comfortable with each other, for others on this forum it took longer. Yes, cats are able to feel jealousy, you are doing the right things.

For cats, jealousy comes from the same place as it does for humans, lack of self confidence and low self esteem. Although cats are social animals they are not pack animals who co-operate with others to survive. Because they are both preyed upon and hunt prey they are all about territory and it's difficult for them to share, this means you, the space, and their litter boxes, bowls etc. Huge change threatens them, makes them stressed and fearful. If you can address these issues, they should become more comfortable with each other.
 
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Mickpest

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So, it's taken a little less than three weeks since my last update on this journey, but think we are closer to thinking we will finally be able to integrate Mickey and Pesto! There continues to be roller-coaster-ride days, but more and more I think they are resolving their pecking order and figuring everything out. Not sure whether or not they will ever be great friends, but at least I no longer really worry about them really hurting each other. :) I catch them every now and then doing a quick lick to each others face and more often than not, they can cross paths without a chase ensuing. AND we graduated to having Mickey out all night! Two nights in a row now with no nocturnal explosions. He seems to be much happier overall not being put in his room every night.
Thanks all for your comments and help! :)
 
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