Thinking of change from Victor to 4Health

GHsaltie

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Hey guys I have two cats, a 6.5y old tortie and 3.5 calico. I've recently started reading more about kitty nutrition and thought it would be good to reevaluate the food my girls are on. They have been on this food: VICTOR Classic Mers Feline Dry Cat Food, 15-lb bag - Chewy.com
I'm starting to realize that I don't really care for the ingredients. The main option I am looking at is 4Health brand, they have two I like the look of.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...cipe-turkey-lentil-formula-cat-food-15-lb-bag
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/4health-indoor-cat-formula-for-adult-cats-16-lb-bag

I'm trying to figure out if the change would be beneficial, and if there is really all that much difference between the 2nd and 3rd foods. I think I like the 2nd one best because there are at least two different flavors so I could change things up every now and then.
Both kitties are also getting the 4Health wet food currently, this one:https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...ee-variety-pack-cat-food-55-oz-can-pack-of-12
But I was debating on switching to this one: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...o-12-pack-duck-turkey-wet-cat-food-55-oz-cans
I would love any input as to whether these would be good changes and why. I'm still learning a lot about nutrition and I know these aren't the best but it's most friendly to my budget right now. Hopefully I will be able to get them something better one day.
 

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okay, so I wouldn't feed any of my cat the choices you listed. however, I understand budgetary and access limitations. that said, if these were the only food choices left or my cat starved and died. I would go with the 4health untamed deep woods dry food over the 4health indoor cat formula. bc the untamed deep woods has only 63% carbs rather than the 70% carbs; it also doesn't have powered cellulose which I've been informed is not good for GI; "its the least fermentable fiber for felines and pushes food through too quickly for proper nutrients to be absorbed".

as for the wet food, I would make the switch (again if these are the only choices left...). the untamed combo - which I looked up the turkey of the two- has a 5% higher protein content. both has carrageenan in it, which I avoid like its the plague bc its been "a known cancer causing for humans and also known to produce intestinal lesions, ulcerations and tumors in experimental animals", however on the untamed option it is 13th on the ingredient lists compared to 8th- so while it is in there, theres less of it.

I'm glad you're considering of making the switch to better nutrition for them. good luck!
 
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GHsaltie

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Is there anything you know of that is a bit better that's not astronomically more expensive? I found a couple that I like the look of but even those would be double the cost for the wet food.
 
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GHsaltie

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To clarify on the situation more, I could swing upgrading on the dry a little bit just not both dry and wet right now.
 

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this morning I learned about a website called catfooddb.com that has independent review of pretty much every cat food out there (or so it seems). I just did a quick peruse of it with my preferred cat food choices and I would say it seems pretty agreeable. I suggest you start there for a quality type then back track to see the cost... might be a bit of trial and error but its a good start.

you should focus your spending on wet food, thats the better food medium of the two. also I've been informed that rotating wet cat food between a couple of variety that uses diff coagulants is best as it'll give kitty cat's GI tract a break from being torn up too much by one bad coagulant. (something like that)

happy to discuss another series of food choices that you end up with again if you'd like. its hard for me to just make a recommendation cause idk your budgetary limits and sadly, cost of cat food and quality of cat food are directly proportional. from this forum I've heard tiki cat and weruva thrown around a lot. but I think those are pretty pricey? good luck!
 

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okay I just did some math, and It looks like the food choices you previously listed- the dry was .09$/ounce and the wet was .13$/ounce. per my own food matrix (theres like 20 options) that has cost break down per ounce, I don't have anything that low. from my list, I have against the grain wet food, which I know their aloha tuna runs about .27$/ounce. fancy feast wet runs about .21$/ounce which between fancy feast and against the grain for .05$ more (as well as the .14$ more compared to your previously listed wet choice), you are getting a HUGE difference in quality. as for the dry food, my closest in cost was purina beyond, which was .18$/ounce. though close, it was a comparative margin of improvement. beyond doesn't have carrageenan which may be worth that whole extra .09$ if you ask me.
 
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GHsaltie

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Okay back with more questions. I checked out Against the grain as recommended above but anywhere I can find it it's $0.33 per oz. I did find Natural balance LID that is .27 per oz, what are thoughts on this? Also I came across a dry food called Wysong epigen at .17 per oz compared to the .11 of the Victor dry.
 
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GHsaltie

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I'm also looking at American journey for a dry option. It would be .16 per oz which I can do and the ingredients look good to me.
 

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so I just googled those brands per the flavors (hyperlink in text) below since you didn't specify and I think, see below accordingly. one thing to note is that diff flavors and cat food line, even if by the same brand, will have diff ingredients so always wise to double check ingredients for any of your red flag ingredients.

Wysong-epigen dry: 70% protein, thats great! though the first ingredient is chicken meal which isn't my preferred protein of choice- it is still pretty good. not too many gums/coagulates (just the gelatin, I see, but I'm not super well verse on the impacts of gelatin- also not sure if that like beef gelatin or artificial gelatin as it doesn't specify), and no known carcinogen ingredients, so yeah this one is def a major step up than your original first two choices. I've never used it, but wouldn't be opposed to trying!

American journey dry: 44% protein, not great but not bad either. again first ingredients are meals, but not the worst. lots of peas and tapioca as natural coagulates, which compared to artificial coagulates is better- but still something to keep an eye on/note. if you're cat isn't able to have normal poop with this one, it may be due to all the peas. Taurine is also fairly low on the list of ingredients, which with 44% protein, it's something I'd raise an eyebrow with as well. between this one and Wysong, I'd go with Wysong first unless your kitties turn their nose up and won't eat Wysong.

natural balance wet: only 32% protein, not great but leaning towards bad? I think 30-40% protein is pretty standard for wet food protein, I think if you go much higher it starts to cost a pretty penny. so maybe thats fine.... the first ingredient is duck, which is a real whole protein so thats' promising. decent amount of peas..which again, comparatively is not too bad. whoop, theres Carrageenan, thats a red flag. pass on this is my suggestion.

I've never purchased against the grain, I've only seen their price listed on their website (which was what I used on my price/oz break down when I was reviewing it). full transparency, I'm very on the fence about against the grain, from an ingredients and analysis standpoint its great- but its really low price has me very skeptical, and still waiting for some light to shedd on why it is so incredibly low. I did learn that they sourced their food/manufacture it in Thailand which may help with the cost explanation, but many (many!) other cat food brands source their food from Thailand, so I'm not 100% on that being the one and only reason for their low cost explanation. one thing to note is that there are whispers out there regarding an 100% or high fish diet for cat, and how mercury level is extra tough for them, in terms of digestion. argument is that cats, in their natural state, wouldn't be able to catch fish to eat it so their body is not made for it, and that- cat loving fish- is a made up storyline that we've all been brainwashed to believe. I know people who feed their cat fish regularly and its fine, but I'm leaning towards going on a rotation if I were to feed my cat a fish protein (which I currently do not). I know against the grain has chicken, but my cat is allergic to chicken ( I think), so for me- against the grain fish option is my only choice. they don't have any other protein options, I believe.
 
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GHsaltie

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Thank you K Katdog that helps a lot. So between the natural balance and 4health untamed, is the natural balance at least a little better? There's such a huge price jump in wet food that it's difficult to pick.
 

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Untamed Wet:
Pro/ more protein (by 5%), cost savings of .13/oz, turkey lists as first protein (a real protein)
Cons/ Carrageenan is high up on the ingredients list (thereby more of it), has variety of gums in it, 6% carbs

NB LID Wet:
Pro/ duck listed as first protein ( a real protein), 4% carb, has peas (a better coagulate than gums)
Con/ less protein (by 5%), more expensive by .13/oz, carrageenan is listed 4th till last on the ingredients list (minimal amount)
*btw I did my math again, and NB LID has 40% protein not the 32% I originally said; untamed has 45% protein.

yeah, okay NB LID would be the better option of the two if we must, but I'm not sure if it is by much given that it is double in cost. I haven't looked at calorie count, but with that considered- are you still coming out ahead? I'm very skeptical of NB LID bc their very name and line is about the betterment of diet, yet their practice blows. feels very untrusting and more of a marketing scheme than anything. personally if I were paying double for something, that thing better be 80-100% improvement. NB LID feels lukewarm.

did you look into fancy feast? if so, any particular reason you are not wanting it? I have it as .21/oz which is less than NB LID and it doesn't have carrageenan but it does have gums & Menadione Sodium Bisulfate (one of the last ingredients, but yet another carcinogen). however since its only .08/oz more than untamed (rather than double like NB LID), it feels more fair....

another suggestion, I recently discovered- possibly within the same time frame that you've been researching- nulo medalseries wet turkey & turkey liver. I have it at .33$/oz (with the 5.5 oz cans), it doesn't have carrageenan or MSB (huge wins!) but does have gums. it also has 60% protein, which is another big win. I suggest this one bc while it is more than NB LID by .06$/oz more and .18$/oz more than untamed, it seems to be worth the double in cost.
 

Katdog

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G GHsaltie not sure if you landed on a brand, but I just discovered american journey wet food pate poultry and seafood variety. They have 12 oz cans and based on pricing it only runs .19/oz which I think is in your budget. The ingredients don’t have msb or carrageenan, it does have gums and is 45% protein.
 
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GHsaltie

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K Katdog I was about to settle on Nulo freestyle 12.5 cans. It's right at .24 per oz, but how do the ingredients compare to the American journey you mentioned?
 

Katdog

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G GHsaltie Nulo is better IMO, I didn't know they had 12.5oz cans! so jealous, I prolly should figure out my cat's turkey/chicken or wheat allergy ASAP so I can jump on those savings. Nulo has less gums than AJ though I think w/ ground dried peas its prolly one in the same in terms of the GI tract negative ingredients. nonetheless on a DMB, proteins and carbs in Nulo are far more superior than AJ (approx. 61% protein & 0% carbs vs 45% protein & 22% carbs). if you're still looking to cut cost further, you can always do Nulo for morning meals and AJ for evening meals. I'm sure things add up quickly feeding for 2 cats.
 
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GHsaltie

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K Katdog thank you that helps tremendously. The price of the american journey is attractive but I like the Nulo better. But you also have a good idea of using them interchangeably. I'm still trying to figure out a good feeding schedule regarding wet because I have for years only fed dry so this is a bit different. I'm thinking about feeding wet morning/evening and then getting some interactive toys to put a little bit of dry in for them to eat during the day while I'm gone, but I don't know yet if I want to do that.
 
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