The "What's on your mind?" Thread -2017

[AbbysMom]

testing

arouetta , OK, what I did was :

Clicked on the word video -

and then copied and pasted what showed up in my browser bar on the top into the thread here -

 

[tallyollyopia]

This is going to be a long, rambling rant about my night. Feel free to skip.

Okay, my night started with AWM getting called out to be the paid designated driver. Not a bad thing, except it meant I had to take RB's van, and it has a window that won't stay up without the aid of a screwdriver (the police are familiar with the van). Now, my store is in a kind of a bad neighborhood (there are worse ones), so I always lock the car. I locked the van, went in to clock in--and the alarm went off. Told the coworker I was relieving that I was going out to fix it. Turned the van off, made sure the broken window was up, locked it again, went back in--and as soon as I at the register the alarm went off again and my coworker (that I was relieving, by the way), sent me back out to fix it. I went through everything again--same result. For fifteen minutes. My coworker just wanted to go, so I stayed at the register and sent RB a text to come up ASAP and fix it. (When he did come up and try to fix it--same result.) Again, fifteen minutes.

Yesterday morning, after getting off work, my manager told me to call for help if I needed it. Please keep that in mind. A little while into my shift a customer got a up of coffee and wanted his change (from a twenty) in gas, and I plus sold him a doughnut (at my store, people save sixty cents on doughnuts with purchase of any coffee). He went to get his pastry, went out to pump his gas--and the money disappeared from the system. Just totally vanished. Nowhere to be found--and I looked everywhere it was supposed to be. (Found his coffee and doughnut in the system--but no gas.) I had a line of twelve or thirteen people behind him and he couldn't leave until he got his gas--so I called my manager for help who told me to call help desk and (I guess) rolled over. I called help desk--who told me that my call was going to second tier help and that they'd be back with me anywhere between ten and fifteen hours. Thinking I heard her wrong, I asked her to repeat herself. Nope. Heard that right. So, since I knew the store had the money I went ahead and put it on the pump so the poor guy could get his gas and go home, printed the receipt, and wrote a note on the back of it. (I called for help. I never call for help. They get what they get.) Five customers later I get a repeat of the situation--a customer handed me twenty dollars for pump five, went to get the gas (I actually saw this happen because the customer behind him was trying to decide which cigarettes he wanted), pulled the pump--poof! It was like the money was never there. Once again--it just vanished. So, I called help desk again, got a different person (who told me to do what I did for the first customer) and let me know that second tier help would call me back in ten to fifteen hours to fix the problem. When the next customer came in I said, "I am selling no more gas from inside this station until second tier help fixes the pumps!" (Oddly enough, Second Tier help called two or three minutes after that.)

A little later a customer came in and another one, a woman with her young (about two or three years-old) son right behind him. As he was at the counter the little boy asked the woman if he could have a doughnut, she said no because it was too late for sugar, he reached into pastry case and grabbed one anyway (she ended up buying it), and she gave him three swats in the store. I thought they were appropriate--loud rather than hard, only three, and the kid was still wearing his pants. The customer at the counter started loudly yelling that the woman was abusing her child. (I got a little short with him, and he left in a huff.) The woman thanked me for standing up for her and commented on how hard it is to raise children with good values, like don't steal. Resolved.

A little after that I had another run of customers and this woman (not a regular at this store, but clearly a regular of the company) got four fountain drinks, seven king sized candy bars, seven regular candy bars, and two tubs of ice cream. She put her stuff on the counter and I started to ring the fountain drinks up first, because the register has a key for that and I don't have to fight the scanner. Well, the day before yesterday the price of our fountain drinks went up by twelve cents and when I rang her up she said, "Wait a minute, you're ringing me up wrong. That's seventy-four cents." I explained, patiently about the price raise, and she tried to get me to "fix it" (there's nothing to fix--all of the signs show the new price) and when I wouldn't she shoved everything towards me and all four fountain drinks spilled everywhere. I had to clean it up before I helped the customers behind her (and they were patient and understanding about the whole thing), and the soda went everywhere. (It was the first of many messes I had to clean up.)

Well, a little while after that (I know, quite the night, and I'm only giving highlights) a young man came into the store. He was wearing a black and white suit, his shoes were extraordinarily polished, and before I could say anything he strode up to the counter and ordered, "Show me your forearms." Puzzled, but not alarmed (I hear weirder on a nightly basis) I push my sleeves up and show my forearms. He glared at me and demanded, "Where is your tattoo?" Tattoo? What tattoo? I've never had a tattoo--the closest I ever came was a fifty-cent temporary tattoo of a butterfly I got for my birthday when I was eight (first birthday after AWM and DD divorced, so memorable). He slammed a hand on the counter and demanded to know what happened to my swastika tattoo and I asked if he could be confusing me with someone else. He rattled off the store's address and asked if I was the third shift personnel (odd word choice for around here) and I told him that I am third shift primary, but that I've never had a tattoo. I then demanded to know what business it was of his if i did (he was ticking me off) and he said he was with the Human Rights Protection Agency (is that even a real thing?) and that I was reported for my offensive tattoo and began going into great detail on why the tattoo was offensive and I finally interrupted and told him to either buy something or I'd report him for loitering in my store (which is illegal in this state and county--doubly prosecutable which is something I learned working as a grand juror) and he left. ????? Where did that come from?

After that I noticed that the lot seemed empty, so I went to the back office to check (we have a new security system that covers all the pumps and the entire store lot--it's awesome!), and then closed the store to work the cooler. Mostly went as usual until I went to restock the Yoo-Hoo (for those who don't know, it's sort of like chocolate milk). Two things to note here--per contract with the company responsible for Yoo-Hoo we have to keep two flats of the stuff--one in the cooler, and one in the back room. Well, I stocked the last three bottles of it (which gave me a grand total of three bottles in the door) and discovered that at some point one of the bottles in the other, unopened flat of Yoo-Hoo got broken at some point and everything inside the plastic had molded. So, while the store was still locked, I cleaned it. I got the unbroken bottles out of the moldy packaging, cleaned off, and everything into a trash bag that I knotted and rubber banded closed (to be extra certain), used one of the unbroken bottles to make sure that the broken bottle was appropriately recorded for inventory (November 1).

Shortly after I reopened the store (and it was glorious without any customers in it, you have no idea) I got two customers in at the same time (same car), one was a regular and one was not. The one that was not a regular tried to use two winning scratch-off tickets to buy cigarettes, and I told him that I couldn't cash the tickets in because the machine went down at midnight and didn't go up again until first shift brought it up (slight exaggeration--as part of my lead training I learned how to bring it up, but after bringing it up I can't do anything with it). He then asked if I could sell scratch-off lottery, and I said I could. He picked out three two-dollar tickets and then tried to trade his scratched tickets for them. I told him that he couldn't do that, because the lottery machine was down and I couldn't cash them in. He then tried to claim that it's possible to trade the tickets, at which point I verbally threw him out of my store. (I was getting very short tempered. I think it's understandable.)

The next thing of note that happened was when I was gathering garbage. See, because we have so many cans (ten, not counting the manager's office and the bathrooms), I get one of the store bags, fill it with garbage bags, and use a D-Ring to clip the whole mess to my belt so I can easily access everything. Well, I had forgotten my personal D-Ring at home (of course), but the store keys (toilet paper dispenser keys, propane tank keys, etc) are hung on a display by the first register (which no one ever uses--I'm not even sure it works), so I went over to grab a set to borrow the D-Ring. Well. At some point someone set a pint bottle of chocolate milk over there--and it exploded. Everywhere. (I was so glad it's the wrong time of month for me to have a sense of smell. Best thing that happened all night.) So, I cleaned. I got all the spoiled, hard milk (and it was difficult) up, in the garbage, and secured. (Oh, and I spoiled out the milk too. Got to make sure inventory's correct.)

So, first shift arrives, takes over the store (I told her about the pumps and the messes), I clock out and leave the store. As I pulled out of the parking lot, a car on the other side of the store pulled out as well, and followed me onto the road. Coincidences happen. I thought nothing of it. It turned onto the same highway, right behind me. Again, I just figured that someone was taking a shortcut to the interstate (if you keep driving past the road I live on, you come right to it and it's impossible to miss). No worries. So the car follows me onto my street. Slight concern, but no worries--I figured the driver lived in the (very expensive and poorly built--and I visited the houses in construction phase so I know) subdivision that was recently built on my street. Passed the subdivision, following me. At this point I'm getting very concerned, but I'm still not sure the person (couldn't tell who was driving it, and for the most part cars all look the same to me) is following me, so I pass my house (if they were following, I certainly didn't want to lead them home)--and the car follows me. It follows me through the circle not far from the street, it follows me through a subdivision--where I finally lost them, and then I go home, checking my rearview to make sure that they are, in fact, no longer following me.

I'm glad it's over. I hope tonight's better.

 

[arouetta]

arouetta , OK, what I did was :

Clicked on the word video -

View attachment 200251

and then copied and pasted what showed up in my browser bar on the top into the thread here -

View attachment 200252

Of the buttons at the top of the reply box, which one did you use to attach the hyperlink?

 

[arouetta]

tallyollyopia I think it was you that once said you aren't sure when to call the police. Someone clearly following you is one of those times that 911 is warranted. Since whoever knows your vehicle, it can possibly be found when parked near your place. Depending on the state, someone can record your vehicle's license plate and find out your name and address.
How To Find A Name & Address Using A License Plate Number

 

[AbbysMom]

Of the buttons at the top of the reply box, which one did you use to attach the hyperlink?

I didn't. I just copied and pasted it into the reply box.

 

[Willowy]

she gave him three swats in the store. I thought they were appropriate--loud rather than hard, only three, and the kid was still wearing his pants. The customer at the counter started loudly yelling that the woman was abusing her child. (I got a little short with him, and he left in a huff.)

I would have had a panic attack. Straight up full blown panic attack. I hope you wouldn't have gotten "short" with me. Well I usually manage to get out of the store before fully melting down. Most of the time. Probably would have left my stuff and run out. I wish people thought before they do stuff like that in public :/.

 

[kashmir64]

Depending on the state, someone can record your vehicle's license plate and find out your name and address.

Good thing it's her brother's van. Let the tatoo guy (who it probably was), deal with him. But let your brother know what happened.

The customer at the counter started loudly yelling that the woman was abusing her child. (I got a little short with him, and he left in a huff.) The woman thanked me for standing up for her and commented on how hard it is to raise children with good values, like don't steal. Resolved.

Good for you. People are so afraid to discipline their children now a days. At that age, a good talking to, isn't going to work and there is nothing wrong with a firm swat. The child probably never even felt it with a diaper on. This is what's wrong with children in this time. Parents are afraid to parent. I'm not talking about a beating, but I was spanked and I learned the difference between right and wrong.

 

[Willowy]

Parents are afraid to parent

Parenting has nothing to do with hitting. Or "swatting" if that word makes you feel better. Nor does teaching discipline. One can raise a fine human being without ever striking them (with a lower chance of anxiety disorders!). Anyone who doesn't know how to teach a toddler something without hitting them shouldn't be allowed within 10 feet of a child.

Also, generally speaking, if someone has so little self-control that they strike their child in public, they probably are doing much worse at home.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

So, first shift arrives, takes over the store (I told her about the pumps and the messes), I clock out and leave the store. As I pulled out of the parking lot, a car on the other side of the store pulled out as well, and followed me onto the road. Coincidences happen. I thought nothing of it. It turned onto the same highway, right behind me. Again, I just figured that someone was taking a shortcut to the interstate (if you keep driving past the road I live on, you come right to it and it's impossible to miss). No worries. So the car follows me onto my street. Slight concern, but no worries--I figured the driver lived in the (very expensive and poorly built--and I visited the houses in construction phase so I know) subdivision that was recently built on my street. Passed the subdivision, following me. At this point I'm getting very concerned, but I'm still not sure the person (couldn't tell who was driving it, and for the most part cars all look the same to me) is following me, so I pass my house (if they were following, I certainly didn't want to lead them home)--and the car follows me. It follows me through the circle not far from the street, it follows me through a subdivision--where I finally lost them, and then I go home, checking my rearview to make sure that they are, in fact, no longer following me.

That actually has happened to me, a couple of times. The first time, I lost them. The second time, I let them follow me to the police station parking lot. LOL, the idiot actually followed me inTO the lot, where I flagged down a patrolman on foot, who dealt with the whole thing very firmly.

I am FINALLY getting the hang of my new smartphone. I've never had to deal with sliding and swiping and such. There is a learning curve, but I can reliably answer my phone 9 times out of 10, and hang it back up EVERY TIME! We progress!

 

[Willowy]

I am FINALLY getting the hang of my new smartphone. I've never had to deal with sliding and swiping and such. There is a learning curve, but I can reliably answer my phone 9 times out of 10, and hang it back up EVERY TIME! We progress!

Isn't that the worst?!? If your hands are wet or too dry or you're wearing gloves (that don't have the special touchscreen fingers) or whatever, it just doesn't want to swipe. And if I hold it the wrong way to my face during a call, my cheek touches the hang up button :/. No wonder everybody prefers texting.

 

[Docs Mom]

The video way back with the tiny box is Maru ! And his roomie Hannah...love watching them......

 

[margd]

tallyollyopia I'm worried about the run-in you had with Tattoo Creep and about you being followed after your shift. Your security cameras cover the check-out area, I hope. If the videos are replaced by later ones, it might be a good idea to save everything recorded about 10 - 15 minutes before, during and after Tattoo Creep was there. Same with the videos taken from outside cameras, especially any that might show him getting out of and into his vehicle. If his license plate is visible, it might worth trying to find out the owner of the car, using the means that arouetta recommended above.

More free, unsolicited advice: I don't know if there is a police station close-enough but whenever you suspect that you're being followed by someone, especially after being verbally assaulted by a creep, that's the place to go. Watch how fast they speed off when they see your destination.

Hopefully, this is just one (or two) of those unpleasant experiences that come with working with the public and is over now. I am a bit of a worrywart.

 

[tallyollyopia]

tallyollyopia I think it was you that once said you aren't sure when to call the police. Someone clearly following you is one of those times that 911 is warranted. Since whoever knows your vehicle, it can possibly be found when parked near your place. Depending on the state, someone can record your vehicle's license plate and find out your name and address.
How To Find A Name & Address Using A License Plate Number

I will admit that it never even occurred to me to call the police, but even if it had I wouldn't have been able to. See, ever since the incident with Mr. Pieces-of-you-in-a-jar, I've been keeping my phone in my back pocket so that I can easily reach it at work. (It's a flip phone--it can take the abuse.) What this means, among other things, was that I couldn't reach my phone because I was literally sitting on it.

I would have had a panic attack. Straight up full blown panic attack. I hope you wouldn't have gotten "short" with me. Well I usually manage to get out of the store before fully melting down. Most of the time. Probably would have left my stuff and run out. I wish people thought before they do stuff like that in public :/.

She was probably thinking that she wanted to make sure the kit connected the punishment with the crime. Hard to do at that age and attention span unless it's addressed right then.

Good thing it's her brother's van. Let the tatoo guy (who it probably was), deal with him. But let your brother know what happened.


Good for you. People are so afraid to discipline their children now a days. At that age, a good talking to, isn't going to work and there is nothing wrong with a firm swat. The child probably never even felt it with a diaper on. This is what's wrong with children in this time. Parents are afraid to parent. I'm not talking about a beating, but I was spanked and I learned the difference between right and wrong.

I will definitely let RB know. (I didn't have time before he went to work this morning to tell him.)

My parents were firmly in the "violence is a last resort" camp of teaching. I think that made it stick all the more.

Parenting has nothing to do with hitting. Or "swatting" if that word makes you feel better. Nor does teaching discipline. One can raise a fine human being without ever striking them (with a lower chance of anxiety disorders!). Anyone who doesn't know how to teach a toddler something without hitting them shouldn't be allowed within 10 feet of a child.

Also, generally speaking, if someone has so little self-control that they strike their child in public, they probably are doing much worse at home.

Out of curiosity, if you'd been in that woman's position, what would you have done to make sure he knew the crime was bad?

Also: I came across a petition to allow schools to install "punishment rooms" in classrooms, which are basically cabinets with a chair that lock from the outside. Whoever came up with that should be shot.

That actually has happened to me, a couple of times. The first time, I lost them. The second time, I let them follow me to the police station parking lot. LOL, the idiot actually followed me inTO the lot, where I flagged down a patrolman on foot, who dealt with the whole thing very firmly.

I am FINALLY getting the hang of my new smartphone. I've never had to deal with sliding and swiping and such. There is a learning curve, but I can reliably answer my phone 9 times out of 10, and hang it back up EVERY TIME! We progress!

Now, there's an idea. If I change my route a bit the county station is on the way home. I think I'll do that if it happens again.

Oh, and, congratulations!

 

[tallyollyopia]

tallyollyopia I'm worried about the run-in you had with Tattoo Creep and about you being followed after your shift. Your security cameras cover the check-out area, I hope. If the videos are replaced by later ones, it might be a good idea to save everything recorded about 10 - 15 minutes before, during and after Tattoo Creep was there. Same with the videos taken from outside cameras, especially any that might show him getting out of and into his vehicle. If his license plate is visible, it might worth trying to find out the owner of the car, using the means that arouetta recommended above.

More free, unsolicited advice: I don't know if there is a police station close-enough but whenever you suspect that you're being followed by someone, especially after being verbally assaulted by a creep, that's the place to go. Watch how fast they speed off when they see your destination.

Hopefully, this is just one (or two) of those unpleasant experiences that come with working with the public and is over now. I am a bit of a worrywart.

I hope so. Egads, what a night. Tonight should be better--there aren't so many parties going on tonight (there were at least five parties downtown). Too late now (the camera system resets at End Of Day and a manager code is needed to get into it after that), but I'll keep it in mind if he comes back tonight. He shouldn't come back--I clearly didn't have a tattoo, and clearly my forearms have never been tattoo'd. Who knows?

 

[arouetta]

I agree with Willowy. Teaching can be done without violence. At that age, immediate, but it can be done without a hit. To be honest does a child that age really understand why they are being hit, or is it like hitting a cat who is damaging blinds? That the immediate is so different that a 3 year old doesn't know that touching something is what triggered being hit?

Would anyone like it if punishment at work is your boss turning you across his knee? No. Doubt it. Isn't bullying someone who is stronger hitting someone who is weaker? Yeah. What's the difference? Nothing.

You all said the woman in my store who hit a lost child was bad. But now with a smaller child it's good?

For the record I was spanked, not beaten. And the potential for violence that lies within me scares me. I dare not let it out because I don't know where I will stop. And I think spanking, the concept that it's okay to hit if you have power over your victim, led to a lot of that.

What else could the mom do? Well kids that age always have a lovey or a toy in hand. It's a good time to teach empathy by kneeling down, say "that is stealing, you took something precious from tallyollyopia. I'm taking your lovey." Take it. "Do you like that I took it? No? This is how you made tallyollyopia feel." And then keep it for several minutes. Oh there will be screaming galore. And the lesson will need repeating. But no parent who spanks only spanks a child one time in a lifetime. Obviously that didn't take the first time either.

 

[Willowy]

Out of curiosity, if you'd been in that woman's position, what would you have done to make sure he knew the crime was bad?

Was it "bad"? What foundation had she set to teach the kid what to do? Even if one approves of physical punishment, you do NOT use it to teach toddlers. That's like using a choke chain to leash train a puppy. They don't understand and it's cruel. Being caused pain /undue distress by a parent or other trusted adult rewires a child's brain. Not in a good way. I'm not a parent and don't have too much opinion about the various ways one may teach little ones how to be a human, as long as it is compassionate. I just think hitting a child (and other things that cause pain) is WRONG.

Also: I came across a petition to allow schools to install "punishment rooms" in classrooms, which are basically cabinets with a chair that lock from the outside. Whoever came up with that should be shot.

OMG no. H*LL NO. My mom was locked in a closet for punishment in kindergarten (her teacher also stapled a boy's tongue for talking) and she's now horribly claustrophobic. I mean she can't close the door in a 10' x 10' room kind of claustrophobic. They should definitely be shot. Actually that's probably too good for them. Locked in the cabinet for a month, how about that. I don't know why people want to torture kids and think it's OK. An ego thing maybe.

For the record I was spanked, not beaten. And the potential for violence that lies within me scares me. I dare not let it out because I don't know where I will stop. And I think spanking, the concept that it's okay to hit if you have power over your victim, led to a lot of that.

I feel the same. That and the panic attacks. I think the 2 things might be related in some weird way (being afraid of my own capacity for violence = fear of another's violence?).

 

[NewYork1303]

Was it "bad"? What foundation had she set to teach the kid what to do? Even if one approves of physical punishment, you do NOT use it to teach toddlers. That's like using a choke chain to leash train a puppy.

I'm not a parent, so I don't have ground to stand on in the spanking debate, but since I would never punish a dog or a cat physically I don't see any logic in punishing a child that way either.

Choke chains aren't supposed to be used for physical punishment in dog training. People don't usually know how to use them. The idea of a choke chain is for the dog to hear the clinking of the chain as it tightens if they pull and to use it as a cue to stop pulling. You can also pop the chain (pull quick and short, to tighten but not choke or harm) as a correction for them to stop what they're doing.

 

[Willowy]

The idea of a choke chain is for the dog to hear the clinking of the chain as it tightens if they pull and to use it as a cue to stop pulling.

The "clinking" only works as a cue if they've been popped real hard a few times. It's a threat of pain (pop yourself with a choker and see how it goes). That's the only way it works as a cue.

But anyway, dog trainers who do use chokers (except for a sadistic few) say that you shouldn't use them on puppies. You teach the basics with a flat collar. Then if you choose to use "correction", you only pop them once they know the basics and understand what you want, and have the attention span to give you what you want.

 

[tallyollyopia]

I agree with Willowy. Teaching can be done without violence. At that age, immediate, but it can be done without a hit. To be honest does a child that age really understand why they are being hit, or is it like hitting a cat who is damaging blinds? That the immediate is so different that a 3 year old doesn't know that touching something is what triggered being hit?

Would anyone like it if punishment at work is your boss turning you across his knee? No. Doubt it. Isn't bullying someone who is stronger hitting someone who is weaker? Yeah. What's the difference? Nothing.

You all said the woman in my store who hit a lost child was bad. But now with a smaller child it's good?

For the record I was spanked, not beaten. And the potential for violence that lies within me scares me. I dare not let it out because I don't know where I will stop. And I think spanking, the concept that it's okay to hit if you have power over your victim, led to a lot of that.

What else could the mom do? Well kids that age always have a lovey or a toy in hand. It's a good time to teach empathy by kneeling down, say "that is stealing, you took something precious from tallyollyopia. I'm taking your lovey." Take it. "Do you like that I took it? No? This is how you made tallyollyopia feel." And then keep it for several minutes. Oh there will be screaming galore. And the lesson will need repeating. But no parent who spanks only spanks a child one time in a lifetime. Obviously that didn't take the first time either.

The biggest difference between the two situations, as I personally see it, is that the woman in your store didn't stop. The child was shrieking in pain, clearly frightened, and she didn't stop. The little boy wasn't even hurt--like I said, I saw the whole thing. It was loud, not hard (her hand was cupped for all three slaps), and there were only three smacks. Then--punishment over.

That's a really good way to help a child learn--by focusing on empathy. (Not all children have empathy--LS was a prime example of this, but most do.) I'll make a note of it for when I have kids.

And, FYI, when I was about the same age as the little kid in my store I did the same thing, only with a pretty blue spool of thread I saw (I've heard about this a lot). AWM's reaction was just like the woman's in the store, and (this is the important part) she never spanked me again. She didn't need to. Like I said, in our family physical punishment was the last resort--not the first one.

Was it "bad"? What foundation had she set to teach the kid what to do? Even if one approves of physical punishment, you do NOT use it to teach toddlers. That's like using a choke chain to leash train a puppy. They don't understand and it's cruel. Being caused pain /undue distress by a parent or other trusted adult rewires a child's brain. Not in a good way. I'm not a parent and don't have too much opinion about the various ways one may teach little ones how to be a human, as long as it is compassionate. I just think hitting a child (and other things that cause pain) is WRONG.

OMG no. H*LL NO. My mom was locked in a closet for punishment in kindergarten (her teacher also stapled a boy's tongue for talking) and she's now horribly claustrophobic. I mean she can't close the door in a 10' x 10' room kind of claustrophobic. They should definitely be shot. Actually that's probably too good for them. Locked in the cabinet for a month, how about that. I don't know why people want to torture kids and think it's OK. An ego thing maybe.


I feel the same. That and the panic attacks. I think the 2 things might be related in some weird way (being afraid of my own capacity for violence = fear of another's violence?).

I may have mentioned, in passing, that DD was a tad negligent in the parenting department. Let me clarify a little bit here--after the divorce he would leave eight year-old me in charge of my two year-old RB. One of the things I would do as a punishment when he acted up (which wasn't often--and again, I remind you both that violence was a last resort in my home and that I was only eight) is that I would, in order (depending on the offense); take away the toy, turn off the TV, or lock him in the closet. (Again--I was eight and didn't know better.) As soon as I learned it was a bad thing, I stopped. Poor RB--he still has nightmares about being trapped in small places.

I understand being afraid of the violence inside you. I like to joke with my family that I "keep my darkness at light's edge." I know how bad I am. I'm also the only person who knows how hard I work to keep that from affecting everyone else.

 

[NewYork1303]

The "clinking" only works as a cue if they've been popped real hard a few times. It's a threat of pain (pop yourself with a choker and see how it goes). That's the only way it works as a cue.

But anyway, dog trainers who do use chokers (except for a sadistic few) say that you shouldn't use them on puppies. You teach the basics with a flat collar. Then if you choose to use "correction", you only pop them once they know the basics and understand what you want, and have the attention span to give you what you want.

We actually did something in 4-H where we tested this by putting the collars on our wrists and using the same level of pressure to pop them. Unless you are using pinch collars (the ones with the spikes that point in on the chain) or doing it completely wrong, the correction doesn't hurt. Even then, dogs and even puppies have very thick skin and fur around their throats which make the main effect of a pop just the swift sound and brief pressure and release on their throat. The idea is to get their attention not to harm them. Most people really don't know how to use these choke chains and shouldn't be using them. They use them on dogs all the time (insane, these are only for training). And use the ones with the spikes on dogs that aren't challenging cases.