The Hooper and Ollie Show

[Twylasmom]

Update - no one was hurt, but Hooper lost some fur. The biggest problem seems to be Ollie’s urge to chase. How do I deal with that?

 

[Twylasmom]

Does anyone have any experience using Zylkene? I’m wondering if it might help Hooper feel less anxious around Ollie. Since the failed attempt without a gate he has been much more likely to hiss and swat at Ollie through the gate. Hooper is very anxious by nature and anything new is difficult for him. I can’t have another person help with the introductions because he is scared of anyone but me. I just refreshed the Feliway diffusers (he was without for a couple of days while I awaited refills) which I think are helping some but think he might need additional calming aids.

Also asking again - what can I do to discourage Ollie from chasing Hooper when they are together? I am trying to wear him out more by having vigorous play sessions, but he just goes after him. I think he may still have some testosterone -about 6 weeks out from his neuter.

Right now they will eat near the gate, though Hooper is much more cautious about it and I need to be near him. Hissing and swatting happens only when they are close to nose to nose, or if Ollie tries to reach through the gate.

I have also bought some new toys, which they are both enjoying separately and sometimes taking turns with at the gate.

 

[Twylasmom]

I don’t know if anyone is even following this thread anymore, but we are still stuck at interactions at the gate phase. Some days are pretty good and they will touch noses and even play a little through the gate. They can eat peacefully through the gate. Other days Hooper gets really hissy, may swat at Ollie and will even offer a warning growl. This usually happens when Ollie charges the gate or tries to reach at Hooper through the gate. I am still concerned that Ollie will chase Hooper as soon as the gate is gone and another fight will occur so haven’t tried again.

I am trying different things - like gating the stairs with Ollie and me upstairs and Hooper on the other side, Hooper in the bedroom with me on either side, or dividing the downstairs with me on either side. If Hooper is in the bedroom with the door closed and hears Ollie he will sit there and cry until Ollie comes over and they play swat the paw.

I am trying the Zylkene with Ollie to see if it will calm him down a little as Hooper mostly reacts badly when Ollie is in full-on crazy mode. I just started it so no idea if it will help. Still using Feliway in each of their primary spaces.

 

[Margot Lane]

I am reading this thread -and adore it- and my only meager advice is that you’re on the right track, it just takes A LOT of time. I think I’ve read other similar threads that also took eons. Ollie being the younger is bound to have more energy…maybe just keep trying to wear him out?

 

[Twylasmom]

I am reading this thread -and adore it- and my only meager advice is that you’re on the right track, it just takes A LOT of time. I think I’ve read other similar threads that also took eons. Ollie being the younger is bound to have more energy…maybe just keep trying to wear him out?

Ollie does have a ton of energy!

We had an interesting event today. I had bought some adhesive backed carpet that was sold as a way to protect your couch from scratching. Unfortunately it appears to be a cat trap. Hooper got a couple of claws stuck in it and was screaming bloody murder. Just as he got free (with my help) Ollie appeared! Apparently he heard Hooper’s cry of distress and jumped the gate to check on him. I scooped him up and placed him in a safe room since Hooper was in an agitated state. Hooper didn’t see him. Anyway, I think that’s a positive event, though now I have to keep an eye on Ollie since I know he can jump the gate.

And I can live with scratched up corners on the couch - the fabric has been removed and I 100% don’t recommend!

 

[Margot Lane]

Ollie does have a ton of energy!

We had an interesting event today. I had bought some adhesive backed carpet that was sold as a way to protect your couch from scratching. Unfortunately it appears to be a cat trap. Hooper got a couple of claws stuck in it and was screaming bloody murder. Just as he got free (with my help) Ollie appeared! Apparently he heard Hooper’s cry of distress and jumped the gate to check on him. I scooped him up and placed him in a safe room since Hooper was in an agitated state. Hooper didn’t see him. Anyway, I think that’s a positive event, though now I have to keep an eye on Ollie since I know he can jump the gate.

And I can live with scratched up corners on the couch - the fabric has been removed and I 100% don’t recommend!

Sheesh! Post a review of that fabric, wherever you bought it. I agree with you, I think Ollie might just be CURious, eager to get to know Hooper. While that might result in an initial tussle….maybe if you let them sort it out things will settle down & find their equilibrium? Caveat though, I’ve only had 1 cat overlap, which went exceedingly well, I’m not sure why but their bond was instant.

 

[Twylasmom]

Sheesh! Post a review of that fabric, wherever you bought it. I agree with you, I think Ollie might just be CURious, eager to get to know Hooper. While that might result in an initial tussle….maybe if you let them sort it out things will settle down & find their equilibrium? Caveat though, I’ve only had 1 cat overlap, which went exceedingly well, I’m not sure why but their bond was instant.

I am just so nervous about the initial intro without the gate. Hooper still hisses and growls, but only when Ollie is really pushing boundaries. Day 2 on the Zylkene and Ollie does seem a bit calmer so we’ll see if that continues. I’m back to stacking gates because now that Ollie knows he can jump he wants to! This is my third time at the cat intro rodeo. The first time was two adult females and I didn’t follow any protocol with them and the first few weeks were really rough, though they did learn to tolerate each other. It took about six months before Hooper and Twyla were together 24/7 but they eventually became good buddies. Hooper is a shy and nervous boy and can lash out when frightened. However, he is also very interested and curious about Ollie. It would be easier if I could have a second person to help but Hooper hides whenever someone else is in his house.

 

[Margot Lane]

I am just so nervous about the initial intro without the gate. Hooper still hisses and growls, but only when Ollie is really pushing boundaries. Day 2 on the Zylkene and Ollie does seem a bit calmer so we’ll see if that continues. I’m back to stacking gates because now that Ollie knows he can jump he wants to! This is my third time at the cat intro rodeo. The first time was two adult females and I didn’t follow any protocol with them and the first few weeks were really rough, though they did learn to tolerate each other. It took about six months before Hooper and Twyla were together 24/7 but they eventually became good buddies. Hooper is a shy and nervous boy and can lash out when frightened. However, he is also very interested and curious about Ollie. It would be easier if I could have a second person to help but Hooper hides whenever someone else is in his house.

I watched a lot of Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom as a kid…it always seemed to me in the lion world at least there was kind of a pecking order. Once all the initial hissy fits were over, the Pride worked as a team. Whether that’s true of house cats I‘m not sure. I don’t blame you being nervous, but also maybe the calmer you are, the calmer they’ll be.

 

[Twylasmom]

My current observations:

Hooper is really trying to communicate “don’t get too close” to Ollie. He will hiss and swat at Ollie if he gets within about 6 inches of the gate or rushes towards the gate. The rest of the time he is watchful and curious. Once Ollie is stowed away in his room Hooper is totally fine, and usually goes upstairs to make sure Ollie is behind a closed door. Sometimes he will get out some of his aggression by playing with his wand toy in view of Ollie but days like today he is just focused on watching him. He has been super hissy the past two days.

Ollie will spend lots of time playing independently, or lying down at a distance from the gate watching Hooper. His curiosity always gets the better of him and he ends up approaching Hooper and getting a hiss and a swat for his trouble. His behavior always seems friendly, he doesn’t hiss and appears to just want to play. He is still thinking about climbing so I have to watch him.

Short version: Ollie is a happy extrovert and Hooper is an anxious introvert.

 

[Twylasmom]

A glimmer of hope today! I let Ollie have the run of the house for well over an hour this morning while Hooper was shut in my bedroom. I was sitting in the living room and listened to them having an extended “conversation” of meows and chirps, with no hissing or swatting under the door. Eventually I went into the bedroom, and when I went to leave Ollie squirmed in and walked up to Hooper. I would say they were about a foot apart. Ollie was quiet and non-aggressive. Hooper hissed and growled at Ollie, but didn’t make any moves Toward him. Ollie backed off a bit and after a couple of seconds I scooped him up and ended the encounter. Hooper was pretty wound up before and after the encounter so I was surprised how restrained he was.

It was only about 15 seconds but I’ll take it. Ollie needs a LOT of wearing out before attempting introductions.

 

[Margot Lane]

You just know this is gonna have a happy ending, They’ll be cuddle buddies. I feel it.

 

[Twylasmom]

You just know this is gonna have a happy ending, They’ll be cuddle buddies. I feel it.

Let’s hope! No face to face without the gate today but very positive interactions. Nose to nose at a cracked door with no hissing or growling this morning and a great hour at the gate this afternoon. I put a turbo scratcher under the gate and they took turns (mostly Ollie) playing with it. Hooper has one of those round crinkly bags that you can put a battery powered toy in, but he just loves the bag and will push it around and play hide and seek under it, and push right up to the gate. Lots of individual play on each side and Hooper only hissed and swatted when Ollie was really pushing it by reaching over on Hoopers side as much as he could.

Hooper is getting a lot more exercise and stimulation than before. He might even lose a little weight!

 

[Twylasmom]

Slooow progress, but still progress. Yesterday Ollie scaled the gates again and some chasing ensued. Hooper will hiss and swat to put him in his place and then issue a warning growl to keep Ollie away. Gates are becoming less effective since he knows he can get over them.

Face to face through a cracked door is great. Hooper usually wants out of the bedroom so today I let him out and they spent a decent amount of time looking at each other in a relaxed way about four feet apart. I am using a Swiffer duster as a barrier and separation tool, which works pretty well, I can gently nudge them apart from a safe distance! Encounters frequently end with Ollie chasing Hooper and Hooper turning and hissing and swatting at Ollie. They had a couple of minutes together this morning with a couple of chasing incidents.

The big issue is Ollie chasing, which does seem like play rather than aggression. He does this even though He gets vigorous play for an extended period before a face to face meeting. He also gets bitey with me when overexcited. I always break contact right away when that happens. It is a rare moment when he will crawl up on my lap and snuggle for a minute. Fortunately it is easy to get him back to his room - I just shake the Temptations bag! I am giving him Zylkene every day though I don’t know if it is helping.

The big challenge is the chasing. I don’t know how to train away that behavior and Hooper understandably hates it. I think that is the major challenge in getting them together.

 

[Margot Lane]

You tried that trick of dabbing vanilla on the napes of their necks? Some folks here swear by it, makes them smell the same. I can’t vouch for it, having always had one cat, but, it can help. I wonder if it’s just a matter of Ollie having to learn -repeatedly- from Hooper where his place is. Takes time.

 

[Twylasmom]

You tried that trick of dabbing vanilla on the napes of their necks? Some folks here swear by it, makes them smell the same. I can’t vouch for it, having always had one cat, but, it can help. I wonder if it’s just a matter of Ollie having to learn -repeatedly- from Hooper where his place is. Takes time.

I haven’t tried that, but they each have substantial time separately in a common space and can get very close through the gate with no issue. I think it is about Ollie learning to respect boundaries and stop chasing! I hope he will calm down eventually. I’m just relieved that there doesn’t seem to be real fighting and Hooper doesn’t seem to be upset after the encounters.

 

[Twylasmom]

The boys had their best interaction so far this morning. I let Ollie roam for three hours this morning and then cracked open the bedroom door for Hooper. Ollie was calmly watching from about six feet away. After a couple of minutes Hooper cautiously walked out and sat behind me. They maintained their spots calmly. I then reached into the bedroom and got a small dish of kibble I had put in there for Hooper and put down small amounts for each. Hooper didn’t eat but Ollie got to eat several small piles, with the closest one about four feet away. They continued to quietly observe until I felt that Ollie was getting restless. We were at the foot of the stairs and I started up and Ollie followed me right up to his room! The whole thing was about 3-5 minutes. No growling, hissing or pouncing!

I know we will probably go backwards right away, but a hopeful moment. Apparently it takes 3 hours to wear Ollie out.

 

[Twylasmom]

I repeated what we did yesterday morning and this definitely seems the way to go! Hooper came all the way out of the bedroom and sat in front of me and watched Ollie. Ollie does not try to approach Hooper in that scenario. I let Ollie have some kibble and while he was eating Hooper crept by him at very close range. Ollie noticed and followed and eventually chased Hooper, who raced back to the bedroom and once in a safe place, turned and hissed at Ollie. I removed Ollie from the bedroom and cracked the door again about 20 minutes later and let them have another calm look but didn’t let Hooper out.

 

[Twylasmom]

There is definite, but very small progress in the introductions (and with Ollie’s manners overall). He has a lot of undesirable behaviors from his time living wild, including a strong prey drive. Ollie is now allowed into my bedroom during gate time and no longer pees on my bed. Ollie tends to be a biter when he gets excited so I have started letting out a high pitched squeal when he does, as well as keeping my hands out of reach as much as possible. He isn’t biting as much, but still working on that behavior. I have been spending quiet time with him in his room in the evenings and last night he sat in my lap for about 10-15 minutes.

In the mornings I let him play himself out and then work on door introductions. On a good day, like today, he will test his boundary with Hooper, and back off when Hooper growls or hisses. I then toss him a treat as reinforcement. He will groom, wash and show his belly to Hooper. Hooper keeps his distance and moves cautiously. Today we were able to move from the bedroom to the kitchen and Hooper jumped onto the counter where his food bowl is and even ate a bite or two. Of course I was there to head off Ollie if he tried to chase. This was over a span of about ten-fifteen minutes.

I am still trying gate time in the afternoon, but that seems less productive as Ollie gets really hyper and tries to reach at Hooper through the gate. Ideally I would put Hooper in the bedroom and repeat the morning routine, but he is not a cat that you pick up and move without consent.

Hooper still hisses and growls a lot, but only when Ollie gets too close. I have to be honest that I am struggling with this process at times. It has taken well over a month to get to this point, and at least a couple of hours each day. Being on winter break has helped, but next week I start back to work and worry that I will lose the small progress made so far.

 

[Twylasmom]

Continuing to make a little progress with heavily supervised together time. Hooper is setting the pace and Ollie is starting to understand boundaries. If Ollie gets within about 6 or 7 feet Hooper will issue a warning growl and Ollie will move away. If he starts getting a little restless I will redirect by throwing a toy. Sometimes Ollie gets shut in the bedroom for a time out. Yesterday Hooper went up to Ollie’s room and really sniffed around for the first time. He did great with that. These sessions last anywhere between 10- 45 minutes.

I have stopped using the gates as they just seem to make both more agitated. My feeling is if we can get to a point where Hooper can freely roam without being chased or ambushed by Ollie that will be a win.

 

[pearl99]

I haven't read the whole thread from the start, just the beginning and the last few posts. It's exhausting, often, introducing adult cats! I've done a few and am in the process of another.
Just some thoughts, maybe helpful, maybe not.
It sounds great that Ollie is respectful of Hooper's hisses and growls. Also, Hooper going in to Ollie's room to investigate.
I don't know if you've tried any of these things, not having read the whole thread, but:
I've found using a big towel to throw over the chasing cat works great. Of course you have to be right there watching closely, so there's that.
With my cats yelling "Stop!!" works well. I don't do it all the time, the shock value is what does it. And the volume.
My cat Ziggy, who is 18 years old, loves to chase Mooshoo. It has calmed down over the last 4 years, and now is only for 5 or 6 feet, but still happens- it's fun, or territory related, or something for Ziggy- maybe Ollie will get some bored with it and do less. My partner's cat, who I am introducing now to my other, is a chaser, too, and the towel thrown over him works really well. And "Stop!!!"
Elwood, my partner's cat, isn't here all the time, so it's slowed things down some, but there is still progress. Same with you going back to work, it may slow progress but nothing to be done about that.
I've let Elwood be out longer periods of time, to get more hissing and growling by the others cemented in to him, now that I know he's not going to harm them and will back off with the hiss/growl. But always am close by still. It's progressing.

I hope things get better with time for both of us!!