- Joined
- Aug 13, 2017
- Messages
- 222
- Purraise
- 252
I also want to say something about the debate and how it often gets discussed online...
Personally, I think it would be more helpful and less confusing if people simply recommended getting advice from a few local vets on the topic, as every area and every cat is different. I find it offensive when people online assume they know better about local risks than local vets... Even if something is a risk and might happen, doesn't mean it is at all likely to happen, and responsible people should do everything possible to be insure it doesn't. For example, people die in car accidents, but no one is claiming we should all wear a padded suit every time we go out. The small degree of risk just doesn't justify the inconvenience. How we weigh risks and benefits is largely based in our personal values, and there is few situations where there is clearly only one "right " answer.
It also would be more helpful if people could be more careful to stay with the facts. I frequently see people online claiming that peoples well cared for pet cats that are allowed outdoors, on average live to be 2- maybe 5 years old. The only studies I can find that sort of support this, are that the average age of feral cats in TNR programs is 2 years old. But other studies have found these completely feral cats in the US, live on average another 6-7 years after being spayed and neutered. And a wide spread vet run study of cat mortality in the UK found that in a population of cats where 90% were allowed free access to the outdoors at least part of each day, for spayed and neutered cats, the average lifespan was 15 years, which is the same average lifespan as an indoor only cat in the US. Estimating the risk any particular cat may face in it's own area is very complicated, and many studies would need to be cross referenced to get a clear picture, but in my area, the large majority of free roaming cats die of old age.
It also is not correct to assume that there is no risks to keeping a cat indoors. One study done on lost cat behavior seemed to find that if the cats that only went out through an enclosure, or on a leash were counted as indoor only, just as many indoor only cats were reported as missing as cats free to choose between indoor and outdoor, and the chances of finding cats in both groups alive was about the same. In other words, keeping a cat from getting familiar with the area around it's home, and learning some basic survival skills while supervised and on a leash, may be a substantial risk just in itself, though more studies would be needed to know for sure. I also suspect cats that are kept indoors are more likely to eat strange things and get obstructions, but studies on this have found mixed results. And just stress can cause serious health and behavioral problems.
Internal parasites in most areas can be easily controlled with routine deworming, and my indoor / enclosure only cats catch and eat enough mice and other things, they need routine parasite treatments just a much as a free roaming cat. And there is some studies now suggesting there may be a link between a lack of internal parasites and problems like IBD.. So it is complicated...
I have links to my sources on another device, but can post them if anyone wants to see them..
I also do not find the overly graphic descriptions of accidents that happened to cats people have seen helpful. In my unusually low risk area there have been people killed or horrifically injured in farming accidents, while up on ladders, while riding bicycles, in car crashes, by gun accidents, by recreational fires, by insane strangers who beat them within an inch of their lives, while out in a boat, and through drug and alcohol abuse. If I began telling all my neighbours with kids the graphic details, in hopes they would keep their kids indoors, I am pretty sure I would no longer be invited to neighbourhood potlucks... The graphic details of worst case scenarios kind of comes across like a form of agenda driven psychological terrorism, and is a tactic I see on the websites of impractical extremist groups. Which makes me wonder how much this content just gets echoed and passed around online. The possibility of bad stuff happening is always part of life, and as humans we accept some risks, do what we can to mitigate them, but we don't keep our kids in a padded box. It really is a matter of degree, and how likely or unlikely these worst case scenarios are.
And I agree that every cats impact on the local environment needs to be part of the pros and cons that get weighed. But again this is not a one size fits all situation, and in many areas free roaming cats have been part of a healthy agricultural ecosystem for thousands of years. I find it really disturbing that some people that want all cats removed from all ecosystems. How long does an animal have to be part of a healthy ecosystem before it has a rightful place as a part of that ecosystem? Selective breeding by humans did not create cats, which is the case for most domesticate animals. So cats evolved in this odd place between worlds, but the general scientific belief is, they are wild animals that found a niche, adapted and "domesticated" themselves. And many cats do not hunt at all... My last long time indoor outdoor cat that died of old age only killed birds that just flew into a window and allowed the mice to have wild kitchen parties every night. My 2 current cats are both enthusiastic hunters, and even allowing them out into a fenced yard, their hunting may be something I will need to find ways to discourage and limit.
My cats have been captive bred for many generations and selected for traits like looks and docility, not outdoor survival skills, so it is probably best mine continue a captive lifestyle, and I will continue to search for ways to keep them content in protected areas. My cat that wants out even though he has most of the recommended life enrichment stuff, is such a hypersensitive and gentle soul, he could easily be run out of his own territory by a mildly aggressive neighbours cat... And I think in his case, even in this low risk area, protection is warranted. And my other cat seems happy, so why expose him to unnecessary risks? But the many comments I have read online with graphic warnings of dangers that cats in my area rarely or never face, or over exaggerated estimates of the risks, only muddied the issues for me, and made it harder to feel sure that keeping my cats captive is really what is best for my cats.
I really do not agree there is one right answer for all areas and all cats.
Personally, I think it would be more helpful and less confusing if people simply recommended getting advice from a few local vets on the topic, as every area and every cat is different. I find it offensive when people online assume they know better about local risks than local vets... Even if something is a risk and might happen, doesn't mean it is at all likely to happen, and responsible people should do everything possible to be insure it doesn't. For example, people die in car accidents, but no one is claiming we should all wear a padded suit every time we go out. The small degree of risk just doesn't justify the inconvenience. How we weigh risks and benefits is largely based in our personal values, and there is few situations where there is clearly only one "right " answer.
It also would be more helpful if people could be more careful to stay with the facts. I frequently see people online claiming that peoples well cared for pet cats that are allowed outdoors, on average live to be 2- maybe 5 years old. The only studies I can find that sort of support this, are that the average age of feral cats in TNR programs is 2 years old. But other studies have found these completely feral cats in the US, live on average another 6-7 years after being spayed and neutered. And a wide spread vet run study of cat mortality in the UK found that in a population of cats where 90% were allowed free access to the outdoors at least part of each day, for spayed and neutered cats, the average lifespan was 15 years, which is the same average lifespan as an indoor only cat in the US. Estimating the risk any particular cat may face in it's own area is very complicated, and many studies would need to be cross referenced to get a clear picture, but in my area, the large majority of free roaming cats die of old age.
It also is not correct to assume that there is no risks to keeping a cat indoors. One study done on lost cat behavior seemed to find that if the cats that only went out through an enclosure, or on a leash were counted as indoor only, just as many indoor only cats were reported as missing as cats free to choose between indoor and outdoor, and the chances of finding cats in both groups alive was about the same. In other words, keeping a cat from getting familiar with the area around it's home, and learning some basic survival skills while supervised and on a leash, may be a substantial risk just in itself, though more studies would be needed to know for sure. I also suspect cats that are kept indoors are more likely to eat strange things and get obstructions, but studies on this have found mixed results. And just stress can cause serious health and behavioral problems.
Internal parasites in most areas can be easily controlled with routine deworming, and my indoor / enclosure only cats catch and eat enough mice and other things, they need routine parasite treatments just a much as a free roaming cat. And there is some studies now suggesting there may be a link between a lack of internal parasites and problems like IBD.. So it is complicated...
I have links to my sources on another device, but can post them if anyone wants to see them..
I also do not find the overly graphic descriptions of accidents that happened to cats people have seen helpful. In my unusually low risk area there have been people killed or horrifically injured in farming accidents, while up on ladders, while riding bicycles, in car crashes, by gun accidents, by recreational fires, by insane strangers who beat them within an inch of their lives, while out in a boat, and through drug and alcohol abuse. If I began telling all my neighbours with kids the graphic details, in hopes they would keep their kids indoors, I am pretty sure I would no longer be invited to neighbourhood potlucks... The graphic details of worst case scenarios kind of comes across like a form of agenda driven psychological terrorism, and is a tactic I see on the websites of impractical extremist groups. Which makes me wonder how much this content just gets echoed and passed around online. The possibility of bad stuff happening is always part of life, and as humans we accept some risks, do what we can to mitigate them, but we don't keep our kids in a padded box. It really is a matter of degree, and how likely or unlikely these worst case scenarios are.
And I agree that every cats impact on the local environment needs to be part of the pros and cons that get weighed. But again this is not a one size fits all situation, and in many areas free roaming cats have been part of a healthy agricultural ecosystem for thousands of years. I find it really disturbing that some people that want all cats removed from all ecosystems. How long does an animal have to be part of a healthy ecosystem before it has a rightful place as a part of that ecosystem? Selective breeding by humans did not create cats, which is the case for most domesticate animals. So cats evolved in this odd place between worlds, but the general scientific belief is, they are wild animals that found a niche, adapted and "domesticated" themselves. And many cats do not hunt at all... My last long time indoor outdoor cat that died of old age only killed birds that just flew into a window and allowed the mice to have wild kitchen parties every night. My 2 current cats are both enthusiastic hunters, and even allowing them out into a fenced yard, their hunting may be something I will need to find ways to discourage and limit.
My cats have been captive bred for many generations and selected for traits like looks and docility, not outdoor survival skills, so it is probably best mine continue a captive lifestyle, and I will continue to search for ways to keep them content in protected areas. My cat that wants out even though he has most of the recommended life enrichment stuff, is such a hypersensitive and gentle soul, he could easily be run out of his own territory by a mildly aggressive neighbours cat... And I think in his case, even in this low risk area, protection is warranted. And my other cat seems happy, so why expose him to unnecessary risks? But the many comments I have read online with graphic warnings of dangers that cats in my area rarely or never face, or over exaggerated estimates of the risks, only muddied the issues for me, and made it harder to feel sure that keeping my cats captive is really what is best for my cats.
I really do not agree there is one right answer for all areas and all cats.