Terumo vs Monoject

[wasabipea]

Bad day at the vet's today. They just don't care about my baby, and have pretty much written her off. Unfortunately in this day and age of disposable everything... well I guess animals fall into that category too.

She's doing well at the moment, eating, socializing, going outside to fiddle with her catmint, there are some days when if I didn't know her condition, I wouldn't even think she was sick. She sleeps a lot, but if i could, I would too.I've he

Anyway, I'm on my own with caring for her - which means back to the home sub-q'ing, etc.

My question is... I've heard many recs of Terumo needles preferred over Monoject.
In your own opinions... why?

I've been spending time at Tanya's site, and learning what I can.
My vets office really let me down today and I guess I'm on my own with figuring things out... I dont want to trouble them anymore. They apparently don't care about terminal cats, and just wait until the owner is ready to PTS.

Oh well, just venting. Back to the post... why Terumo over Monoject?

Thanks in advance!

 

[white shadow]

Hi !

There's so much info on Tanya's site that, for me, it's sometimes hard to find exactly what I need........here's the piece on Terumos: http://www.felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids_tips.htm#needles_terumos

 

[wasabipea]

Hi !
There's so much info on Tanya's site that, for me, it's sometimes hard to find exactly what I need........here's the piece on Terumos: http://www.felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids_tips.htm#needles_terumos

Thank you :-)
Yes, her site is very comprehensive - which is good since I have a lot to learn.
Seems that the "big thing" is that Terumos are sharper so they go in easier. I could be wrong... hence this post.

Thanks again!

 

[white shadow]

Perhaps Tanya's group would be a source of some direction and support for you.....?   I know I wasn't exactly 'impressed' with some of the recent 'expert' input here. Several years ago, I joined Tanya's group just to get a handle on kidney issues - I found her group truly superb for 'to-the-point' advice/info. I've also heard otherwise from a few.....all things considered, you'll never know without (at least) monitoring what happens there and, to do that, you'll need to join up (it's a private forum). You can read about it here: http://www.felinecrf.org/tanyas_support_group.htm   Join up is here: https://www.bigtent.com/groups/tckd    (you do not need to give them private info...read what "Tanya" says about that: "I did not give any private information when I signed up, but if you are forced to complete the information, you can be as creative as you like with your responses")

 

[wasabipea]

Maybe I'll join thanks. i don't participate in too many online forums - but for specific info like that, it couldn't hurt. Except for when there are conflicting opinions, then...

I do wish there was another affordable vet place somewhere close by.

Well sub-qs for me for sure today. They jacked their prices and procedures, knowing full well I can't afford that on a daily basis - so they are forcing my hand to do this on my own or have her PTS. Feeling no love for my vet right now. At least I have a new bag, etc.

Thanks again. Wish me luck, the two times I tried were disasters.

Anyone tried the clothes pin technique, or have any opinions on it? It seems like the kitty is just getting the sensation of being held by the scruff of her neck, hence docile kitty.

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

@Wasabipea -- i'm so sorry to hear that your vet doesn't seem to care and be supportive. i'm fortunate that my vet is the opposite, she cares and is very supportive.

i have no experience with monoject needles for sub-q's, but i've been using terumo (20 ga, UTW -- ultra thin walled) needles for snick's sub-q's since around last november. my experience has been that the terumo needles are smooth going in (the first time i used one it felt like "a knife going through warm butter"). the ultra thin wall leaves more space for the fluids to flow through, making the flow faster which means giving fluids goes faster for my snick.

i used tanya's website to help locate the best prices for sub-q fluids and supplies, which saves me a nice chunk of money (compared to what i was paying at my vet's to buy supplies from them). this means i have more money available for other needs my snick may have (other medicines, treatments, etc). here's a link to the webpage at tanya's -- http://www.felinecrf.org/cheap_supplies_usa.htm

i buy my sub-q fluids through valley vet dot com. snick gets sodium chloride 9% solution (because she's had idiopathic hypercalcemia), and i buy the fluids by the case usually two cases at a time -- but you can buy the bags individually for the same price per bag, though keep in mind shipping costs for orders less than $60. i then store them carefully (on the first floor of my house during the cold weather months, and down in the basement in a plastic storage bin with lid during the warm/hot weather months).

i buy the terumo needles by the 100-count box (they're individually sealed in strips with perforations to take one at a time) as well as the "giving sets" from thriving pets dot com (and used the promotional code from tanya's website to receive a 10% discount on my order of over $55 US). i'll be ordering more sub-q supplies in september and october this year, and will probably order the terumo needles from calvetsupply dot com this time (making sure to meet their minimum to qualify for free shipping) -- their prices are lower for the needles. i'll probably stick with thriving pets dot com for the giving sets (again, making sure to meet the minimum amount to receive free shipping, and using tanya's promo code). i order freeze dried chicken treats from calvetsupply sometimes, so will order some to bring my order total up to free shipping. i think i'll order $55 or more from thriving pets just by ordering the giving sets. i order enough sub-q supplies in one set of orders to last about a year or so.

someone here just yesterday used the "clothes pin technique" while giving sub-q's. here's the thread -- http://www.thecatsite.com/t/283402/i-cant-get-subq-fluids-to-work-and-desperate --  post #8 is where using the clothes pin technique was mentioned.

 

[cocheezie]

I use Terumo (here they are called "Sur-Vet").

Hope all goes well.

 

[wasabipea]

I thought I read somewhere that Temuro ultra thin walls were being discontinued, but I could be (probably am) wrong.
I also want to re-watch Dr Kris video about the shebang quick method.

MickNsnicks2mom, thanks for the wealth of info... and cocheezie for the support.

I don't know what they said in front of her yesterday, but today she is in a terrible condition when she had been doing quite well. Cats pick up on things.

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

@Wasabipea -- i haven't heard anything about terumo's ultra thin walled needles being discontinued.

maybe a little talk with your girl, telling her how much you love her and will always look out for and take care of her would help raise your girl's spirits.........?

if it were me having the experience you're describing with a vet, i'd be looking for a different vet. it might be worth looking around at other vet's and calling to talk with them, just to see what other options you have.

 

[white shadow]

 
i haven't heard anything about terumo's ultra thin walled needles being discontinued.........

From the first link I provided Wasabipea (post #2):

 Unfortunately Terumo is discontinuing the ultra thin wall needles....................

Another good reason to participate in that group !

 

[wasabipea]

I am going to start looking around at other vets, unfortunately my current place has the best rep in the area, and aren't outrageously priced. I think they are just sick of Roni and know they can't do anything. I'd euthanize if she were in pain, or if she had "that" look - but not yet. Even though we had a bad food day today, she was very affectionate instead of being reclusive. I hope tomorrow she wakes up with a better tummy.

I've been petting her all day telling her lovey-dovey things. She purrs, but still snubbing the food.

I really think deep down she was happy I did her fluids at home, though.

Maybe they said bad things that broke her spirit yesterday, like mine. We both left with a bad aura, crazy as that sounds - and I was in tears last nite. Time for more lovey talk. :heart4:

Eta: i thought i read about the discontinued Terumo on Tanya's site

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

 
From the first link I provided Wasabipea (post #2):

Another good reason to participate in that group !

i did participate in tanya's ckd support group for a while, but stopped because there were way too many emails arriving from them -- updates of new postings. also, i found the format a bit...uncomfortable. but that's just my personal experience.

i did a couple web searches for info about terumo ultra thin wall needles being discontinued, but found nothing. so i've just sent an email to terumo support, asking if it's true that they're discontinuing them. their offices are closed now, and i won't be able to call tomorrow, but i'll call them tuesday if i haven't received a reply to my email.

edited to add:  i'm still finding terumo ultra thin wall needles available online. no out of stock or discontinued at the websites i usually compare prices at.

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

I am going to start looking around at other vets, unfortunately my current place has the best rep in the area, and aren't outrageously priced. I think they are just sick of Roni and know they can't do anything. I'd euthanize if she were in pain, or if she had "that" look - but not yet. Even though we had a bad food day today, she was very affectionate instead of being reclusive. I hope tomorrow she wakes up with a better tummy.

I've been petting her all day telling her lovey-dovey things. She purrs, but still snubbing the food.

I really think deep down she was happy I did her fluids at home, though.

Maybe they said bad things that broke her spirit yesterday, like mine. We both left with a bad aura, crazy as that sounds - and I was in tears last nite. Time for more lovey talk.

Eta: i thought i read about the discontinued Terumo on Tanya's site

i'm so sorry you're having that experience with your vet's.

have you tried stage 1 jar baby food (gerber or beechnut, the kind with only the meat/water/some have a bit of cornstarch in them -- chicken & gravy, turkey & gravy, beef & gravy, ham & gravy), to try to entice your roni to eat? it's very easy on upset kitty tummies and easy to digest, and many/most cats love it.  you could also try wiping just small amounts of wet food or baby food on her front paw, as most cats will lick it off to clean their paw.

thank you! i found where tanya's site was saying that. i've just emailed terumo customer support, asking if it's true. i haven't noticed them being not available at the websites i usually look at for them, but maybe they're selling the veterinary line in place of the  (for humans) UTW and haven't changed the listings yet.

 

[betsygee]

I really think deep down she was happy I did her fluids at home, though.
 

So you've been able to give the subq at home yourself now?  That's great news, I know  you've been struggling with being able to do that.  

 

[wasabipea]

 
i'm so sorry you're having that experience with your vet's.

have you tried stage 1 jar baby food (gerber or beechnut, the kind with only the meat/water/some have a bit of cornstarch in them -- chicken & gravy, turkey & gravy, beef & gravy, ham & gravy), to try to entice your roni to eat? it's very easy on upset kitty tummies and easy to digest, and many/most cats love it.  you could also try wiping just small amounts of wet food or baby food on her front paw, as most cats will lick it off to clean their paw.

thank you! i found where tanya's site was saying that. i've just emailed terumo customer support, asking if it's true. i haven't noticed them being not available at the websites i usually look at for them, but maybe they're selling the veterinary line in place of the  (for humans) UTW and haven't changed the listings yet.

Baby food is usually my go to when nothing else works, but yesterday I got a few licks out of her and that was that. This morning I got some solid cat food into her, not as much as I would have liked - but it was something. She usually loves the beef and ham (I know... salt = bad, but food = more important). I have a bunch of monoject 18 and 20s. I'll get close to the end of that supply and look to order then. I really don't know how long she'll be with us.

I'd like to see if I can feel the difference with the terumo needles though. Thank you!

 

[wasabipea]

 
So you've been able to give the subq at home yourself now?  That's great news, I know  you've been struggling with being able to do that.  

I did. Had a bad vet visit on Saturday, so I was bound and determined not to go back - so... I did it!

I got 200 ccs into her, she was relatively cooperative - tried wiggling and acting like she was going to leave, but a hand gently on her back kept her in place. I think I had mentioned before that I was expecting a cold shoulder, but got lap purrs later. She was a good girl.