Teach Me About Feline Nutrition!

[nimble]

I am relatively new to cat ownership. When I was a child, we had outdoor barn cats who would hunt for themselves in addition to receiving whatever kind of dry cat food was on sale. We had dogs, and their food was always given a lot more attention. When I got a bit older, I got really in to horse nutrition, and really enjoyed learning about it. I actually wanted to major in equine nutrition, before my life got crazy and college was no longer an option. I'm now 19 years old, and a vet assistant at a nonprofit Spay & Neuter clinic. I just rescued a 7 month old cat named Flossie, and my feed-my-pets-well twitch is kicking in full force. She's currently fed Solid Gold brand Winged Tiger dry food, and Blue Wilderness Indoor food in both chicken and fish flavors. They're both grain free. I recently read about how fish is not ideal for cats, so when we finish the ones I already bought I won't be getting anymore. I feel pretty okay with what I have for her now, but I'm really interested in learning more. I do splurge a little when it comes to cat food, because I don't make terribly much money, but I just cannot bring myself to half ass it when it comes to caring for my pets.

Teach me all the things!

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• nimble
• Jun 17, 2015

 

[LTS3]

You can start here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/248990/tcs-resources-thread-feline-nutrition-articles-and-threads

Another good web site is http://www.catinfo.org There's also http://www.catnutrition.org/ and http://feline-nutrition.org/index.php but both are more geared towards raw diets and the benefits of such a diet.

Foods that are mainly fish / seafood is ok to feed, just once in awhile

The problem with fish / seafood is that they are low in protein, high in phopshorus (only a concern for cats with kidney issues), and some cats just get addicted to eating it. Here's a recent thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/299768/why-is-avoiding-fishy-flavored-foods-recommended

Foods that are meat based with a small amount of fish in it is ok to feed daily.

Most people here recommend 100% canned food. Catinfo.org goes into why canned foods are preferred over dry foods. Some people feed 100% raw food or a mix of raw and canned food.

Dry food isn't ideal to feed but it's the only thing some people can feed for whatever reason. In those instances, you just have to do your best to encourage the cat to drink water to keep the body well hydrated.

 

[raintyger]

Here are some good places to get the basics:

http://catinfo.org/

Lisa Pierson's site is pretty much required reading for cat nutrition.

Her concepts are summarized here. I think it is a little more digestible, but it is kinda like reading Cliff's Notes--the basics and not from the original source.

http://fnae.org/

You sound like you have the interest to learn raw feeding. There's a special sub-forum on The Cat Site for that. It is possible to feed a cat very cheaply if you make your own cat food, but you have to learn a lot. Just throwing raw meat into the dish will malnourish your kitty; there's organ meat and a lot of supplements that have to go in to compensate for the lack of some nutrients like calcium.

http://www.thecatsite.com/f/65/raw-home-cooked-cat-food

 

[nimble]

Wow, thank you guys for this information! I'll be totally honest and say that I'm a little intimidated by raw diets, but definitely will do research and see if that's a thing I can make happen. Right now she gets 1/4 cup of dry food in the morning and 1/4 cup at night, and a quarter can of wet food at the same times. She strongly prefers wet food, and nibbles/grazes off of the dry food (quail based) throughout the day and night. She typically drinks a lot of water, which I've been really grateful for.

While she was living in a medium dog cage at the clinic, she wouldn't eat a lot. Granted, she was fighting off an infection at first, and was stressed and unhappy and confused. She'd been living in a disgusting trailer that was packed full of trash and cockroaches and other cats, and suddenly she was in a little metal box getting poked with sting-y antibiotics everyday (by me, I might add), and then she came here to my apartment, which much be like a castle to her. She has her own little litter box hut, higher quality food, toys, scritches and constant love from whoever is home, and today her cat tree arrived! She also seems to love being clean, which was impossible for her at her original home. TL;DR, she is now eating regularly, but still needs to gain weight.

She's also getting her second dose of drontal this Friday because she had a terrible flea infestation and likely has some more tapeworms to take care of. I'm going to make Dr. C give it when I take her to get her FVRCP vaccine because I don't want to make my precious kitty swallow the nasty pill; he can do it.

aNYWAY I'M RANTING ABOUT MY CUTE KITTY AGAIN.

With this new information, I think I'll maybe make her diet more based on canned food, rather than it being a supplementary daily treat, as it is now. Is it still a good idea to offer her dry food, as well? I would think that it might help clean her teeth a little (she does have some tartar, which Dr. C says is likely a result of her previously poor diet). She is young and somewhat adaptable, so I think she'll enjoy whatever delicious meals she is given!

 

[fhicat]

Here are some good places to get the basics:

http://catinfo.org/
Lisa Pierson's site is pretty much required reading for cat nutrition.

Not sure I would classify a strong one-sided opinion as required reading. It's just another avenue for OP to explore.

 

[LTS3]

 
Wow, thank you guys for this information! I'll be totally honest and say that I'm a little intimidated by raw diets, but definitely will do research and see if that's a thing I can make happen. Right now she gets 1/4 cup of dry food in the morning and 1/4 cup at night, and a quarter can of wet food at the same times. She strongly prefers wet food, and nibbles/grazes off of the dry food (quail based) throughout the day and night. She typically drinks a lot of water, which I've been really grateful for.

Definitley read up before you start a raw diet. It's not as simple as giving a bowl of raw meat. Commerical raw pet foods are the easiest way to start , either frozen or freeze dried or dehydrated, but many people find that making their own raw food is chaper in the long run. There's a raw forum here on TCS where you can get more info.

 
With this new information, I think I'll maybe make her diet more based on canned food, rather than it being a supplementary daily treat, as it is now. Is it still a good idea to offer her dry food, as well? I would think that it might help clean her teeth a little (she does have some tartar, which Dr. C says is likely a result of her previously poor diet). She is young and somewhat adaptable, so I think she'll enjoy whatever delicious meals she is given!

I would still offer a litle dry food for now and then slowly stop feeding it. This is to avoid any tummy issues. A little dry food in the diet is ok if some has to be fed. Or maybe instead of dry food, feed freeze dried raw instead. Some people feed only canned fodo but give regular dry food as treats.

Dry food doesn't keep teeth clean. It's a common myth. Only regular dental care will keep teeth healthy. Tooth brushing is the most effective and preferred method. There are other dental careitems out there like gels and rinses and treats. Most dental treats don't do a thing so I wouldn't bother with those. The only one I would recommend are the CET dental chews. Regular dental cleanings will help keep the teeth healthy, too.

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/does-dry-food-actually-clean-your-cats-teeth

 

[raintyger]

 
Wow, thank you guys for this information! I'll be totally honest and say that I'm a little intimidated by raw diets, but definitely will do research and see if that's a thing I can make happen. Right now she gets 1/4 cup of dry food in the morning and 1/4 cup at night, and a quarter can of wet food at the same times. She strongly prefers wet food, and nibbles/grazes off of the dry food (quail based) throughout the day and night. She typically drinks a lot of water, which I've been really grateful for.

The raw forum is really the raw AND homecooked forum. Homecooked, though, involves more simply because then you have to take the extra step of cooking it. Since cooking food also changes nutritional values, there's more guesswork and uncertainty as to how to prepare the food so that it is nutritionally complete. If you're open to raw, you might start off by just feeding snacks of raw meat to acclimate yourself to the idea of raw and also to see if your kitty accepts it as food.

You're very lucky to get a cat that prefers wet food. Some members agonize and have to coax their kitties for years to get them to eat wet. If budget allows I would try to get her off dry. Budget wet foods include the pate varieties of Fancy Feast and Friskies, and Sheba. Some warehouse stores sell these brands in bulk, but I've found the assortments to have too much fish. Maybe buy the warehouse pack, but also individual cans to thin out the fish flavors?

 

[nimble]

Hey all! Just got back from getting the second shot of my rabies series and I'm feeling a little tired, so forgive me if my thoughts are a little scattered!

I think I'll finish feeding this bag of dry food that I bought before transitioning entirely to canned food. It's a high quality food, so I feel good about her finishing it off. I did the math, the price of buying 30 cans of wet food is about the same as buying 15 cans plus the bag of dry food. I've been feeding her a quarter can per meal (half a can a day), and the suggested serving for her weight is a whole can a day, so I think she'll be good with half a 5.5 oz can per meal. If there is any variation in the serving when you're feeding only canned food, PLEASE let me know!

I don't feel quite ready to take on the raw diet just yet, as I have a lot of other stuff to figure (catwise and otherwise) out first! She's getting the rest of her leg amputated in ~3 weeks, so I don't want to get too crazy with the diet changes just yet! The little stinker (she's really got some residual dirty-animal-hoarder-trailer smell going on, I can't wait until I can give her a bath) was licking at her incision earlier, even with the bitter apple around the site, so the bite not collar had to go back on. Thankfully, she doesn't seem as upset about it and is walking around without trouble, so I don't feel as bad. I brought home a shot of ampicillin to prevent any infection, since it looked like she'd licked it last night when I checked it this morning.

I'm thinking of switching her, if it pans out financially, to Wellness CORE grain free indoor canned food. Does anyone have any thoughts about this food? Is it better/worse than the Blue Wilderness grain free indoor food?

What about Soulistic? AvoDerm?

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• nimble
• Jun 18, 2015

 

[LTS3]

Originally Posted by Nimble  

I think I'll finish feeding this bag of dry food that I bought before transitioning entirely to canned food. It's a high quality food, so I feel good about her finishing it off. I did the math, the price of buying 30 cans of wet food is about the same as buying 15 cans plus the bag of dry food. I've been feeding her a quarter can per meal (half a can a day), and the suggested serving for her weight is a whole can a day, so I think she'll be good with half a 5.5 oz can per meal. If there is any variation in the serving when you're feeding only canned food, PLEASE let me know!

I don't think too many people here follow the recommended serving size on the pet food label. The recommendations are often more than what a cat needs. What people do is feed enough calories to maintain a healthy weight. The general suggestion is to feed 20 to 25 calories per pound of ideal body weight per day (not per meal). An average 10 pound cat may need only 200 to 250 calories daily. But it really depends on each individual cat, the breed, the activity level, gender, among other things. For instance, I feed raw food to my cats, a mix of Nature's Variety Instinct raw food and ground meat with bones and organs with Alnutrin. My 10 pound Aby eats 3 NV nuggets a day with one spoonful of the ground meat / Alnutrin mixed in with each NV nugget. It comes out to a little less than 200 calories a day. My Aby is at a healthy weight and has a good body condition despite him being extremely active.

Start with the 5.5 oz can a day and adjust as needed. You can feed half in the morning and half at night. Some people feed small canned food meals daily using a programmable timed feeder. Most cats seem to refer having several small meals to snack on instead of two set meal times.

I don't feel quite ready to take on the raw diet just yet, as I have a lot of other stuff to figure (catwise and otherwise) out first! She's getting the rest of her leg amputated in ~3 weeks, so I don't want to get too crazy with the diet changes just yet!

A raw diet can wait

It's not something to rush in without knowing what you are doing unless you go the commerical raw pet food route.

 
I'm thinking of switching her, if it pans out financially, to Wellness CORE grain free indoor canned food. Does anyone have any thoughts about this food? Is it better/worse than the Blue Wilderness grain free indoor food?

What about Soulistic? AvoDerm?

I think Wellness and Blue Buffalo are about the same.

Soulistic is good. The company also makes Weruva, the higher end line of food sold at independent pet stores.

I tried Avoderm once and will never buy it again

I bought a canned chicken and the shreds of chicken were bright pink and in a thick gloppy very strongly smelling sauce

My cat at the time refused to go near the food.

I suggest buying pate / loaf foods as much as possible. You get more food for the money. The gravy canned / pouch foods and those that are shreds / chunks/ etc of meat or fish are typically mostly water with very little actual food. You can add water to pate food to make gravy

Feel free to rotate in a non-pate food on occasion to give your cat some variety in the diet.

http://www.thecatsite.com/newsearch?search=best+canned+food

 

[ldg]

Additionally, the foods with gravies are usually higher carb as the gravy is made with wheat gluten, potato starch, tapioca, etc.

I would suggest feeding different brands and having a number of pate foods and proteins in rotation. Think of your own diet. Would you want to eat just one brand of canned stew? Forever? What if there were a recall? Everything else would taste funny. You have to keep your taste buds active.

The way to avoid raising picky cats is to provide a large variety.

 

[lisahe]

I think Wellness and Blue Buffalo are about the same.
Soulistic is good. The company also makes Weruva, the higher end line of food sold at independent pet stores.

I tried Avoderm once and will never buy it again

I bought a canned chicken and the shreds of chicken were bright pink and in a thick gloppy very strongly smelling sauce

My cat at the time refused to go near the food.

I suggest buying pate / loaf foods as much as possible. You get more food for the money. The gravy canned / pouch foods and those that are shreds / chunks/ etc of meat or fish are typically mostly water with very little actual food. You can add water to pate food to make gravy

Feel free to rotate in a non-pate food on occasion to give your cat some variety in the diet.

A few more bits of experience (courtesy of Edwina and Ireland 

) on the foods...

-Personally, I think Wellness Core canned foods are better than Blue Buffalo and Wellness's other cans: for one thing, the Core kitten, turkey/duck, and beef/venison/lamb foods are lower carb than the many of the foods in the other lines. Wellness Grain-Free foods are low-carb, too, but our cats never liked them. I'm also very biased against Blue Buffalo because they use potato, which I don't think belongs in cat food. (I'm not just because it seem to make one of our cats vomit! (The potato sensitivity seems to be fairly rare.)) Our cats won't eat a lot of pates but they love the Core kitten food; I suspect they like it because it has a little herring.

-Our cats recommend Weruva's Cats in the Kitchen non-fish canned foods, which are shreds and a pretty good value. The cans are generally pretty packed with meat instead of pointless "gravy." Soulistic has some decent foods--our cats love their chicken/pumpkin--though many of them are high in carbs and/or tuna-based. I drain most of the sauce from the chicken/pumpkin to avoid the carbs.

-I agree that "gloppy" is a good adjective for Avoderm! Our previous cat wasn't keen on it, either.

-Another canned brand that a lot of cats like is Nutro Natural Choice: our cats love the minced chicken, sliced turkey, and chunky chicken. These are shredded and chunked foods where the cans are pretty full of meat, not sauce.

Quote:

I would suggest feeding different brands and having a number of pate foods and proteins in rotation. Think of your own diet. Would you want to eat just one brand of canned stew? Forever? What if there were a recall? Everything else would taste funny. You have to keep your taste buds active.

The way to avoid raising picky cats is to provide a large variety.

-LDG's point about rotation and variety is so true! Our cats get bored fast so we feed them a lot of different canned and raw foods. It does help to keep them from getting too picky.

 

[raintyger]

I would rotate among the Wellness, Blue Wilderness, and Soulistic if you are happy with those. Get a few 3 oz. cans of each to see if she'll accept them. Avoderm, IIRC, is not the worst food, but it is a bit higher in carbs than I like to see. Since she's still a kitten she should be allowed to eat as much as she wants unless she gets fat, so don't worry about calories/how much yet. But for later keep in mind that some brands of food are higher/lower in calories. Wellness is high at around 210 calories/5.5 oz. can, and Weruva is only around 80.

Hey, I just noticed Flossie's a she but she's a red cat! That's rare, orange cats are usually male.

 

[lisahe]

 
I would rotate among the Wellness, Blue Wilderness, and Soulistic if you are happy with those. Get a few 3 oz. cans of each to see if she'll accept them. Avoderm, IIRC, is not the worst food, but it is a bit higher in carbs than I like to see. Since she's still a kitten she should be allowed to eat as much as she wants unless she gets fat, so don't worry about calories/how much yet. But for later keep in mind that some brands of food are higher/lower in calories. Wellness is high at around 210 calories/5.5 oz. can, and Weruva is only around 80.

Hey, I just noticed Flossie's a she but she's a red cat! That's rare, orange cats are usually male.

That's a good point about kittens and calories -- I forgot all about that when I suggested Weruva, which is definitely lower in calories than, say Wellness. Part of me kind of misses being able to feed the cats unlimited food -- they were underfed, scrawny kittens when we adopted them and they ate a ton -- but oh, my, did it get expensive!

 

[ldg]

I just wrote a reply to someone in another thread that I think you might find interesting, N nimble . It isn't about feline nutrition per se, but an overview of their diet put into a bit of perspective.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/294297/question-about-a-kibble-brand#post_3766200

 

[nimble]

Thank you @LDG! I looked at some commercial raw diets, and they were all a little too expensive for me right now. I will definitely be transitioning her to wet food only, though, until my financial situation improves some!!

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• nimble
• Jun 20, 2015

 

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• nimble
• Jun 20, 2015

 

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• nimble
• Jun 20, 2015

(Flossie loves her new cat tree, and the lookout tower is her favorite spot! She still has to figure out how to climb to the top on her own though! She was trying her best earlier, utilizing all remaining limbs and even tried using her teeth. ;D)

How do you guys feel about beef? There's a flavor of Wellness canned food that is Beef, Venison, & Lamb, and I was wondering what the ins and out of those particular meats were?

 

[Anne]

Feeding wet food is fine but if dry is more convenient or affordable, there's nothing wrong with feeding dry, or mixing the two. I know some of our members prefer to avoid dry, and that's a legitimate choice, but it's important to realize that even though a couple of vets advocate it online, the notion of avoiding dry is not backed by enough scientific evidence to be considered a mainstream guideline - 

The Science Behind Cat Nutrition

 

[LTS3]

 
How do you guys feel about beef? There's a flavor of Wellness canned food that is Beef, Venison, & Lamb, and I was wondering what the ins and out of those particular meats were?

Beef is fine unless a cat has an allergy or sensitivity to it

Vension and lamb are considered "novel proteins" and aren't likely to cause a reaction. Many lmited ingrecdient diets for food allergies and senitivity contain novel proteins.

It's good to rotate between different proteins to avoid a cat developing food allergies / sensivitiy and a picky taste bud.

 

[nimble]

 

[nimble]

 
I would rotate among the Wellness, Blue Wilderness, and Soulistic if you are happy with those. Get a few 3 oz. cans of each to see if she'll accept them. Avoderm, IIRC, is not the worst food, but it is a bit higher in carbs than I like to see. Since she's still a kitten she should be allowed to eat as much as she wants unless she gets fat, so don't worry about calories/how much yet. But for later keep in mind that some brands of food are higher/lower in calories. Wellness is high at around 210 calories/5.5 oz. can, and Weruva is only around 80.

Hey, I just noticed Flossie's a she but she's a red cat! That's rare, orange cats are usually male.

I hadn't even thought about that! But now that you mention it, most of the orange cats we get in the clinic are males! She is indeed a female as I watched Dr. C remove her uterus! She actually also has an orange sister who looks very similar to her, but unfortunately she went back to the trailer after she was spayed. Dr. W said I could have her if I wanted, but it's just not in the cards to take on more than one cat right now.

The only pet stores we have here are PetCo and PetSmart, and one smaller pet shop that really only carries saltwater fish and stuff. I am not at all reluctant to order online, as that actually seems to be cheaper, so when the time comes to try Weruva or another brand, I'll purchase it off of the internet. I also don't plan to live in North Carolina forever, so we'll be moving (hopefully north) eventually!

 

[LTS3]

 
Cool, thanks! What are the signs of a food allergy in a cat? Should I be looking for hives or changes in behavior or...? I'm guessing I don't need to get worried about my kitty going in to anaphylactic shock because she eats some beef, right?

No, not anapylactic shock. Symptoms of food allergies and sensitivites are more along the lines of diarrhea, itchy skin with maybe some balding, vomiting, gassiness, etc.