Switching my 12 year olds from canned to raw...and need support!

ginny

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They were born in 2004 and have progressed from Friskies and el cheapo grain-based dry food (Kibbles and bits or something cheap) to grain-free wet and dry (NVI) and the pate only Friskies (which is grain-free as well).  They did not like the NVI and would only eat it because they were hungry.  They never adapted to it.  That makes me nervous to try switching them to raw.  

I have been familiar with Dr. Pierson's raw diet for a few years now, which she partially cooks, and found the exact same diet on the cat nutrition site.  I've been reluctant to try it due to costs.  Plus my mom was living with me and was having much financial strain without the option of working more to cover bills.  

But now I'm looking at raw again and want to try it.  There is so much info on cat info site that it's hard to take it in all at once - so I did not see that part where she estimated the cost of each meal, which looks very doable to me.  Dr. Pierson said to start out slow (which is what I intend to do).  She said to get a piece of raw chicken and cut it up and see what they do with it.  I'd rather go by the recipe, just a small batch at first, because it can be frozen for later.  And I plan to go slower than she suggests.  I  want to add just a tiny bit alongside their Friskies and see how they tolerate it.  I'm afraid they won't like it!  

One of the questions I have with the raw diet is why are probiotics and enzymes not recommended?  Are they just not needed?  Or did I totally miss that?  I personally don't think probiotics would hurt, but I have no clue about adding enzymes.  

Any advice will be appreciated!
 
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ginny

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I couldn't find any raw glandular supplement nor bone meal so I just ordered it online.  I also just located some chicken hearts and liver at a nearby store.  I just remembered the chinese store downtown.  They probably have it too.  So I'm disappointed I don't get to make this today while I'm off.  :(  

Oh well.  Getting closer now!
 

kirathecat

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Hi! I totally understand that the amount of information about raw diet can be overwhelming. I, myself, only recently started my cat on a raw diet.

I assume you buy chicken and other meat for yourself? Just give your cats a little bite size piece to try. I promptly figured out he wasn't too fond of beef but liked chicken. So I cut some chicken breast and thighs into small bite-size pieces and froze it in a ice cube tray. I defrosted 1 small cube at a time and fed a few pieces to my cat as a treat and then later I mixed it in his wet food (Fancy Feast Classic, since he refused to eat any decent grain free food
).I also ordered Alnutrin with Calcium instead of mixing my own supplements.

Probiotics are a great addition to any diet and especially helpful during transition or introduction of new proteins. It is recommended to include probiotics but they are not essential as taurine, for example.  I switched my cat to raw without using probiotics but plan on adding them soon because of their beneficial effect on gut health.

Here's a good article about probiotics & enzymes http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/are-probiotics-and-digestive-enzymes-needed

And here's some info on Pro & Pre biotics: http://felineconstipation.org/prevention.html#FiberorPrebiotics
 
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ginny

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Hi! I totally understand that the amount of information about raw diet can be overwhelming. I, myself, only recently started my cat on a raw diet.

I assume you buy chicken and other meat for yourself? Just give your cats a little bite size piece to try. I promptly figured out he wasn't too fond of beef but liked chicken. So I cut some chicken breast and thighs into small bite-size pieces and froze it in a ice cube tray. I defrosted 1 small cube at a time and fed a few pieces to my cat as a treat and then later I mixed it in his wet food (Fancy Feast Classic, since he refused to eat any decent grain free food
).I also ordered Alnutrin with Calcium instead of mixing my own supplements.

Probiotics are a great addition to any diet and especially helpful during transition or introduction of new proteins. It is recommended to include probiotics but they are not essential as taurine, for example.  I switched my cat to raw without using probiotics but plan on adding them soon because of their beneficial effect on gut health.

Here's a good article about probiotics & enzymes http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/are-probiotics-and-digestive-enzymes-needed

And here's some info on Pro & Pre biotics: http://felineconstipation.org/prevention.html#FiberorPrebiotics
OH golly I sure opened a can or worms.  I forgot about prebiotics.  Cats wouldn't be eating undigestible fiber on a raw diet because there would be no vegetables or fruit!  Thank you for the good articles you gave me, very interesting.  And I forgot that eating raw means the enzymes remain, so for now I think I will stick with a good probiotic.  Right now I'm using Petdophilus in their evening meal (they're still eating canned now.)  I'd like to try a better probiotic because I just looked it up and saw it has maltodextrin.  But it does have inulin which is a prebiotic.    

I do have beggars like Nat who LOVE beef and canned chicken and tuna. The others have shown interest in it too but Nat always loves beef.  I don't encourage much of it since it's not complete, and it's cooked.  Who knows if the canned food is complete?  Has canned food ever been tested to see how much nutrition remains after weeks on a grocery store shelf?
 

kirathecat

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Look here when choosing probiotic for your kitties http://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/probiotics-for-cats---why-and-which-ones.html (i decided to go with Nexobiotic, will try it on both, myself and the cat 
)

I've read many times on this forum that you can safely feed UNsupplemented raw if it is less then 15% of their diet, so don't worry about giving them a little meat to try :)

I hope your kitties enjoy there new healthy menu 
 
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ginny

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Look here when choosing probiotic for your kitties http://www.rawfeedingforibdcats.org/probiotics-for-cats---why-and-which-ones.html (i decided to go with Nexobiotic, will try it on both, myself and the cat 
)

I've read many times on this forum that you can safely feed UNsupplemented raw if it is less then 15% of their diet, so don't worry about giving them a little meat to try :)

I hope your kitties enjoy there new healthy menu 
Thanks for the link.  I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but when you said you would try it on yourself first I realized I could probably give them a small dose of the one I take which is an EXCELLENT probiotic.  It even cures my heartburn even though my diet is far from optimal or clean right now.  I take Dr. Ohhira's.  Have you ever heard of it?  I've tried many other probiotics, but this is the only one I've found that works well enough for me to be able to see a difference.  I started taking it this past winter and have not had anywhere near the number of colds I usually do in a year's time.  I like that they are stable without having to be refrigerated.  They are small capsules with liquid inside which would be kind of difficult to put on their food but I could certainly try it.  They are expensive too!  It's $60 for a month's supply for me.  I guess I could cut back somewhere else to make up the difference.  

Actually what I feed is canned, but they do like it.  I quit giving them kibble treats like Temptations (their favorite!) a while back and I use this in place of it.  No grain and human grade at least.  That makes me feel better!  I really hope they accept the new diet although I anticipate a little refusal at first.  Below is a link to a video of how I HOPE things go!  (Kitty starts eating at about 3:30)

 

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Thanks for the link.  I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but when you said you would try it on yourself first I realized I could probably give them a small dose of the one I take which is an EXCELLENT probiotic.  It even cures my heartburn even though my diet is far from optimal or clean right now.  I take Dr. Ohhira's.  Have you ever heard of it?
That probiotic contains carrageenan which a lot of poeple avoid for their cats. Not sure if any of the other ingredients are ok for cats: http://drohhiraprobiotics.com/dr_ohhira_probiotics_ingredients_about/

A probiotic that doesn't contain extras would be best for a cat.
 
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ginny

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Just found this video about digestive enzymes!  I guess I need to think about adding this too.  Opinions please?

 
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ginny

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Another question:  I found chicken hearts AND gizzards in the store today in one container.  I guess I'll be adding more taurine to the first trial batch of food I make.  Is it ok to use gizzards in kitty food?
 

kirathecat

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Another question:  I found chicken hearts AND gizzards in the store today in one container.  I guess I'll be adding more taurine to the first trial batch of food I make.  Is it ok to use gizzards in kitty food?
Both, hearts and gizzards are great to feed to your cat, they should count as muscle meat in a recipe.

Sorry, got no advice for you on the enzyme video... Maybe someone else knows, whether you really need them or not for a healthy cat on a raw diet. 
 
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ginny

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Thanks!  
 
That probiotic contains carrageenan which a lot of poeple avoid for their cats. Not sure if any of the other ingredients are ok for cats: http://drohhiraprobiotics.com/dr_ohhira_probiotics_ingredients_about/

A probiotic that doesn't contain extras would be best for a cat.
I didn't realize it had carrageenan (sp?) in it!  So far it's been the best probiotic I've been on but I haven't experimented all that much.  Some are just like taking a sugar pill, you can't tell the difference.  I'll keep on looking then. THANKS!
 
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ginny

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Well, today I got the last 2 ingredients I need to make my trial complete raw food for my kitties.  I can't wait to be off to try this!  

I have a question.  The bone meal and the glandular supplement came today and it was sitting outside on my front porch in the blazing hot sun.  When I took the bottles out of the box, they were still warm but they cooled down fairly quickly.  Will the heat hurt the quality or diminish the potency?  I have no idea how long it sat there in the sun and of course it comes on the day I have to work.  I was off yesterday.  

Has anyone else determined if you are spending about the same amount on food per pound as you were when not feeding raw?
 
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ginny

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I just made the food.  It was kind of a disaster.  I had more faith in my blender than I should have.  It quit working on me!  So off to WALMART I go to get another one.  The one I used was kinda cheap anyway.  Going by the recipe, it came out pretty wet too.  Should have used a bit less water.  So I'm going to have to get some already ground chicken to make it a bit less soupy.  I don't really have all the necessary equipment to do this.  A meat grinder would have been good.  At least having a meat knife would have been good.  The kind that hacks or chops.  I don't know what they're called.  Cleaver?  Whatever.  So this was a learning day for sure.  I had one 
"customer" appear.  Nat wanted some of what I was making while I was still chopping up the chicken.  I was afraid it wasn't ground enough so I didn't give him any.  

Back to the store I go (have to go anyway) and get more meat and a food processor.  I'm waiting for the bones broth (gelatin) to finish in the pressure cooker.  Man this was harder than I thought it would be!  I'm still kind of scared to give them raw meat.  Encouragement please?
 

Lyzzie

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You could have given him a chunk.

Just make sure it's big enough that he's going to have to chew first. Let him sniff it, and see what happens!

You can do it!
 
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ginny

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I almost did @Lyzzie  but I really want to try ground up meat first because that's all they eat now.  I'm thinking next time I will have to get the meat already ground or I'm just going to have to save up for a meat grinder.  Do you have one?  What recipe do you use?  I'm open to suggestions.  And I'm trying to recall what one member told me she uses (I believe it's @missmimz  ?)  I've even done a search for her post but can't find it.  Man!  This is really different actually DOING it as opposed to watching a video of a pro doing it.  I'm worn out!  Lol.  Thanks for the vibes!
 

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I almost did @Lyzzie  but I really want to try ground up meat first because that's all they eat now.  I'm thinking next time I will have to get the meat already ground or I'm just going to have to save up for a meat grinder.  Do you have one?  What recipe do you use?  I'm open to suggestions.  And I'm trying to recall what one member told me she uses (I believe it's @missmimz  ?)  I've even done a search for her post but can't find it.  Man!  This is really different actually DOING it as opposed to watching a video of a pro doing it.  I'm worn out!  Lol.  Thanks for the vibes!
I have a Tasin TS 108, which works fine. I hate grinding, tho, so I don't do it that often. It's great for boneless meat and apparently can do chicken bones (ive never tried) but nothing bigger. Lots of raw feeders use this one.

http://www.onestopjerkyshop.com/tasin-ts-108-electric-meat-grinder-1/

I mostly buy pre-ground meat from Hare Today because it's just so much easier. I did try once to grind meat in both my food processor and my vitamix. Terrible. It was a huge mess. 

I'm a lazy raw feeder I don't follow recipes with my own supplements I use Alnutrin or EZcomplete, depending on whether or not the meat I'm using has bone. 
 
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ginny

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Thank you @missmimz  I knew it was something other than EZ complete.  I'm not a fan of chopping up meat so I foresee going the easy route although that's probably going to be more expensive too. :(  

Ok.  I tried the first taste test at dinner just a while ago.  I put a teeny spoonful beside their regular canned food.  It's all gone!  I think every one sampled it but I didn't stay in the room because they get suspicious of me when I do.  But every little bit of the raw is gone while the canned meat is still there, mostly eaten but still some left!  It's too early to say if it's a hit yet, but I'm hoping!!

I was afraid of using the really tough pieces of i guess cartilage or tendons, and my new bigger food processor blade doesn't fit in the container (I HATE EQUIPMENT!!!)  This has just worn me out today, but they seem appreciative.  Hope nobody throws up!  
 

Lyzzie

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I'm just going to have to save up for a meat grinder.  Do you have one?  What recipe do you use?
I don't have a grinder. I tried a PMR diet with Sparrow, and he LOVED it. But I was too excited and too fast. I didn't let him get used to the new proteins as slowly as I should have. Poor babe. He is now on wet, and I'm going to get him back on raw slowly, as it should be!
 
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ginny

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@Lyzzie  what is the PMR diet?  
 

Lyzzie

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That's Prey Model Raw. The idea is to make the cat's diet as close as it is in the wild. So Kitty eat raw meat in chunks, organs, and raw meaty bones. I had so much fun making Sparrow's meals.

There's also Whole Prey. That's pretty self-explanatory


Here are some articles about the different types of diet, and PMR in particular :
[article="31714"]Raw Feeding Cats Types Of Raw Diets Feeding Options  [/article][article="32339"]Prey Model Raw Just The Basics  [/article][article="32321"]Raw Feeding For Cats The Ingredients  [/article]
 
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