Suspected IBD or Lymphoma... is surgery worth it?

[daftcat75]

Thank you!!!

I/D is what I've been feeding Oscar since his IBD/cancer diagnosis stuff began. At first he liked the wet food, but he stopped eating it entirely pretty quickly. He consistently ate the hard food version, so I was primarily feeding that. Now he only deigns to eat it if he's desperate and I'm refusing to give something better.

Have been trying Koha wet foods, which is what I am mixing with his savory centers today... He clearly does not like them much. The rabbit one seems to cause the least annoyance for him, but all of the bird ones (turkey, duck, even tried chicken) piss him off.

Had not heard of A/D and will def ask about it. He much prefers pates so it sounds like it is definitely worth a shot.

"Devil's Bargain" is such a fitting turn of phrase for what it feels like!

Have you tried the Rawz brand? I don't like Koha because it contains green lipped mussels and agar-agar. Neither of these are essential and both are potential irritants. Why do they include unnecessary crap in supposedly limited ingredient foods? Any reactions you are getting from the Koha may have nothing to do with the protein and that's the true hazard of "Limited Ingredient" foods that are not limited in ingredients.

The trouble with a "devil's bargain" is that if the FF contains a trigger food, no meaningful healing is possible until that trigger is removed.

I sure hope Oscar loves the A/D as much as Betty does. I would mix it with something else so that pure A/D will remain pure crack for getting medicine into him if you choose to go the carpet pill route. I just mixed up 1/8 tsp of a supplement I would normally not be able to get into her into 6 grams of the A/D and then served that in several carpet morsels to her. I have a few supplements from Vitality Science that I'd like to get into her to strengthen her gut that will probably be served this way.

This won't replace medication. Not yet. But it could be a powerful helping hand.
Gastro Prime Combo for Cats - Vitality Science

 

[Margot Lane]

It took awhile for the steroids to work, but once they did, the change in the litter box was instant, and I had a happier cat on my hands. I would follow all the advice Daftcat’s giving you on food, given his long experience with this. As an “if all else fails” bracket, Farmina’s quail and pumpkin has done wonders for Zorro. Of course, the OTHER devil’s bargain is that steroids come w/ long term side effects, of which Zorro sofar has none, after a year. Given that he’s 16, every day with him feels like luck & joy and fresh air. Bottom line is YOU know deep down what is best for your cat, and it sounds here as if you are following your best & most loving instincts.

 

[rockitorknockit]

Feeling very hopeless and depressed.

Took Oscar for a check up with the internal medicine specialist last Friday. The doctor kept saying, "He doesn't look good..." She would not even schedule a follow up because she wanted to see how he is doing in a couple of weeks first. This was super discouraging and upsetting to hear from her.

At the appointment she was very concerned that his breathing was fast and this was a sign he was going into heart failure. However, his breathing as I count it at rest at home has been completely normal and unchanged since I began counting it in November of last year (Averaging 16 breaths per minute). I think she underestimates how distressing having to drive him in a car through the mountains for a full hour to get to her really is for him. She stated that if his breathing is okay at home, then she's less concerned about his heart right now, and did not order an x-ray or cardiac appointment based on my home observations.

She did not want to change any of his meds. We talked about the food and diarrhea situation. "Fed is best" was sort of where we landed. Feed him the savory centers if its all he'll eat, but can also try the hills gastrobiome food. Only problem with the biome food? I cannot find it ANYWHERE, and she warned me that it was hard to find now (she did not even know where I could get it, wet or dry). She had 3 samples of the wet, which I fed him. He does not like chunky wet food, but he lapped up the gravy part.

I'm watching him like a hawk every minute of the day, and talking about it with my wife. She insists there is no way it's time to consider euthanizing him yet. I'm just terrified he's more miserable than I realize. I'm constantly analyzing where I think his quality of life is and his every movement. I started to keep a little log in a small notebook.

He eats his meds, he drinks water, he asks for food. He's eating about three cans of savory centers a day and nibbling at the hills i/d, which - for all intents and purposes - is literally a normal diet. The Dr was concerned he'd lost more weight, but he was actually at 8.8 at her office, which is technically more than the week prior, when I weighed him at home pre-savory centers. I weighed him again two days ago, and he was at 8.9 (I know there's nothing to tell through this tiny of a change, but really just wondering if he could actually gain some weight now that he's eating more of the savory centers, or if that's even possibly since he poops so frequently). The Dr prescribed an antibiotic as a last hurrah to see if it changes his poops, but of course it hasn't after five or 6 doses. His poop is basically completely liquid at this point, but he always makes it to the litter box and cleans himself afterward if needed.

He purrs far quieter and less now. I wish I wish I wish I had recorded his purr better, before now. Why didn't I?
His "happy tail" is less frequent. I think he us needing to use it a bit more for balance since he's just every so slightly a little more wobbly these days.

Oh how I miss so so so much his plumb, happy self.

But he quacks for his food if I'm too slow, and he gets up and follows me around from room to room. He's enjoying the spring weather on the balcony, stretching out like a noodle on his packing paper (he LOVES to sit on packing paper). He likes drinking water from the bathtub.

Is he just old and sick, but still here and okay so long as I continue to love him and care for him?
Or is he a shadow of himself because he's so miserable and I'm fooling myself?

I am grieving what we've already lost, while trying to cling to every moment we still have.
Absolutely terrified of reality and of the moment the decision has to be made. Dreading when that will be, hating even more than I don't know if it's now, or soon, or not for a long time. Praying he'll stay stable but just in a torturous hell with all of this. The doctor said he's definitely presenting more as a cancer patient, but we just don't know.

Have been trying to find a vet that would come to our house for end of life. We live in a smaller town. One came highly recommended on Facebook but she won't answer my damn phone calls.

Thanks for giving me space to vent. It's hard to get through the work day or sleep these days.

 

[rockitorknockit]

Just called a local vet and they have dry food of the biome and the wet a/d on hand, so will be trying to pick some of that up today to add to Oscar's diet.

 

[Margot Lane]

Well that’s good, at least he’ll get decent food. Do you like and trust the vet you use? if you can find an end of life vet is it possible to get from them a 2nd opinion?

 

[rockitorknockit]

Well that’s good, at least he’ll get decent food. Do you like and trust the vet you use? if you can find an end of life vet is it possible to get from them a 2nd opinion?

To be frank, these vets are complete shit. Not at all what I want to be dealing with. Communicating with them is an absolute nightmare, it takes days and multiple nagging phone calls to get anything done. I'll say the internal medicine specialist is better than the normal vet in terms of talking to me directly (which it takes a miracle to make happen). The normal vet is absolutely useless, I basically only use her still to get refills on things closer to home.

I was DEFINITELY hoping that someone who does end of life at home stuff would be willing to come and meet him/us beforehand and give us thoughts, or even just a whole exam. If not a second opinion, at least seeing him in a more normal environment and letting me know what they are observing. Even that will be hard because Oscar is terrified of anyone who isn't me, but maybe if they are willing to sit still in the living room for a bit they'd start to see how he's doing. Maybe they'd concur he is okay for now, or maybe they'd tell me he is clearly in pain/suffering.

There is one at-home vet around here that EVERYONE recommends, but I have literally tried to get in contact with her five times over the course of weeks, and she is completely unresponsive.

My wife is doing some research on other options today, but I'm not super optimistic.

 

[Margot Lane]

I am gritting my teeth here b/c I am not a vet, and through it all this vet (you don’t like) has said not to give Oscar Prednalazone…but it has truly helped here w/ my cat, which is partly why I asked about the second opinion. Sorry you are going through this. I guess at some point if you are headed in this direction you have to weigh as someone on TCS said recently: “Quality of life versus quality of time.” Big hugs to all of you, I’ve been really rooting for you through this whole thing.

 

[rockitorknockit]

I am gritting my teeth here b/c I am not a vet, and through it all this vet (you don’t like) has said not to give Oscar Prednalazone…but it has truly helped here w/ my cat, which is partly why I asked about the second opinion. Sorry you are going through this. I guess at some point if you are headed in this direction you have to weigh as someone on TCS said recently: “Quality of life versus quality of time.” Big hugs to all of you, I’ve been really rooting for you through this whole thing.

He is still on 5mg of the pred daily. I did ask her last Friday if she thought raising or lowering the steroid would have any impact at this point, even just on his poops, but she said she didn't want to adjust anything. I'm not sure why. Maybe she thinks its pointless, maybe she thinks we've found a careful balance. The last ultrasounds showed less swelling, which is good, and she's concerned about his heart. Probably some combo of all of the above.

He gets a chemo dose tomorrow. I always feel scared of them, but the last three times he had it, he acted completely unaffected. It's only been a couple of times it seemed to make him feel really bad.

Quality of life is the big thing on my mind. That's why I started keeping a log, so I can really see how often he's having okay/good days vs seemingly not. I know a lot more has to be considered beyond "is he still eating". I read something recently about whether or not the care the cat must receive is ruining the animal-human connection. That's definitely not happening right now, in fact our connection is probably why he's still doing okay at all. My wife and I talked about what things would be huge obvious signs to us - if he stopped taking his meds, or he started soiling himself. I guess those are obvious to anyone anyway, but it helps to talk about it with her. I'm trying to mark the days with a smiley face or frowny face overall. Even still, it can be hard to tell - yesterday he followed me around, ate, enjoyed the balcony. But he slept most of the day, more than usual. But he was also in much more natural and comfortable positions than usual. Sitting upright when awake, lying comfortable rather than hunching or squatting. I marked it as a :/ day.

 

[rockitorknockit]

I meant to add - I have always felt like you were rooting for us, and that has meant a lot. I really appreciate your support. Thank you so much.

 

[Margot Lane]

Oh! 5mg. That is pretty good! And less swelling is huge! I would put a smiley face there. Sorry somehow I missed the 5mg. Keeping a diary surely helps, if only for your and Oscar’s peace of mind. If this food continues not to work for you, you might consider doing something else. I am sure daftcat has all sorts of excellent suggestions (see other threads on this). My boy has done well on pumpkin and quail from Farmina, wet only, and others have perked up on rabbit. I think you are doing as well as can be expected, and doing everything you can for him. Good luck finding a vet that will visit you…that would be huge.

 

[rockitorknockit]

So funny - I just went to scoop Oscar's litter box and saw a a partially solid poop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the first time this has happened in... as long as I can remember! MONTHS. He's been doing ACTUAL LIQUID poops for a while now. This was soft but LEGIT FORMED poop. I literally cannot tell you how exciting this feels, even though it's just one poop.

I can't believe it?! Antibiotic? The biome food? IDK, but wow, I never knew I could be this excited over a cat poop!

 

[Margot Lane]

I felt the exact same way when it happened to me. I almost cried. Congratulations!!!!

 

[rockitorknockit]

I felt the exact same way when it happened to me. I almost cried. Congratulations!!!!

This will certainly be a big ol' smiley face day for my log book!!!

 

[rockitorknockit]

Update, and questions.

Oscar had the most solid poops I've seen from him in months for about a day and a half (and far less of them). They then returned to their usual liquid, frequency. This is telling me that even just a couple of cans of the wet biome food made a huge difference for him. I ran out, so his poops went back. It's been so hard to find. I did get some of the hard food version, which I started giving some last night. My vet also said they'd special order the wet if I need it, so will prob get some of that.

I am concerned because he seems to have vomited the last couple of nights, and we had found vomit a couple of times last week as well. Always one vomit that was left overnight, seems to be half liquid half partially digested food, all light in color. We can never tell if its Oscar or our other cat, Barney, but I think this one was definitely Oscar. This is scary to me because he has not vomited in 2-3 months since being on cerenia nightly. Wondering what is up with that... Can cerenia stop working? Should I switch to odansetron, which I have but have never tried with him yet? Can I stop giving him cerenia cold turkey or do I need to wean him off that since he's been on it regularly for a while? Or maybe just add the odansetron.

Another side question - should I be giving the steroid at night? The vet said it didn't matter so I've always given it in the morning but I'm seeing others on this site administer at night. He already got it this morning, too. Should I/could I wait for his next dose to be tomorrow evening instead?

Thanks for everyone's continued help.

 

[rockitorknockit]

Just adding -

Overall, Oscar seems less nauseous these days then he was for a long while. That's why this is even more confusing to me. Nowadays it's less of the constant water drinking, drooling, and meatloafing (still some, but not as bad). More of him lying and sitting in more natural and comfortable positions.

Every time we find the puke, it's hard food. I'm wondering if he's sneakily eating Barney's food. Or if he's puking because I have not given him wet food while sleeping most of the night. I wish I had cameras to know a little more info.

 

[Margot Lane]

Certainly cameras would be great. If there is some way you can make sure Oscar doesn’t sneak dry food that would be GREAT.. Don’t know much about Cerenia so somone else will have to chime in here. I always pill Zorro in the morning & have not heard about this evening notion…not to say it doesn’t work, I just don't know. I will say when the pred started working for us it was exactly like you…at first we sort of hiccuped along between runny and firm stools and then it became all firm. Sorta like his body was getting used to it. Also Zorro doesn’t vomit, except when he sneaks too much grass….Daftcat’a posts on barfing have been useful to read I think.

 

[hexiesfriend]

I had the same issue with my Orange kitty Gin Gin. He started having Chronic Diarrhea about 2 years ago. We did not do an ultrasound but the biopsy that showed nothing we put him on Prednisolone short term and Budesonide long term as he had a heart murmur too. He did well for 2 years. Recently unfortunately he took a turn and the diarrhea came back we did an ultrasound that showed nodules on his liver and spleen. He was with us for a few more weeks and one day he became jaundice and had to let him go. It was a long road and the right thing to do. Since your ultrasound was clear you may want to consider the prednisolone until stable and Budesonide long term and see how he does. Your vet will decide which steroids are best that is just what worked for my kitty. If you get the stool stable he will gain weight back. Unfortunately with cats this age early organ issues maybe what is likely rather than IBS issues. Gin was about 13 when he was diagnosed. He lived as long life considering ,15 wasn’t bad. Initially 2 years ago My Kittys blood test were near normal but he was still having diarrhea. I think in hindsight something was going on in his liver that wasn’t showing up yet on blood tests, and why nothing came of the biopsy. This is probably why we were able to have him with us for 2 extra years. It’s a tough decision but at this age I think medication trial may be a good course before a biopsy. I am sorry to put it this way but I’ve lived it. With Kitty 13 or 14 it’s usually something starting with the organs rather that just the digestive tract irritation. Good luck finding the right decision let us know how he does.

 

[Margot Lane]

How’s Oscar’s poop situation?

 

[rockitorknockit]

How’s Oscar’s poop situation?

GOOD!!! Not perfect, but as long as I get as much of at least two cans of Hills GI Biome WET (specifically) food in him a day, his poops are almost totally normal! Solid, less stinky, less frequent.

I am supplementing that with dry food because the wet food is impossible to find and he's very picky still. Currently have aboutba case left and getting nervous about when and where to get the next. Do not have a good backup yet.

He also doesn't actually love either of them (the wet or dry), but he's eating them. I've been using tiny amounts of nutritional yeast flakes and experimenting with blending the wet food bits and warm water with that to get him to eat more in one sitting. He is a pate kind of fellow normally.

I have been worrying he's not getting enough food in but he gained a few ounces and is back to 9 pounds as well, which sent me over the moon! Just cherishing every second of this miracle as best I can right now.

Thanks for asking! How is Zorro?

 

[Margot Lane]

Oh I’m SO glad! Keep cherishing the miracle! Zorro’s fine but bummed he’s an indoor cat. (My neighbors photographed a mountain lion). I was hoping this would happen for you! Hooray!