Stuck in a loop with Humane Society

[Snickersdoodle]

Well, this really isn't an SOS but there doesn't seem to be a general forum and this is related to a shelter. We picked up two littermates from our local Humane Society to adopt this past month. They had not been spayed yet so they said we could take them home and actually adopt them once that was done. However, they had explosive diarrhea the entire time we have had them. They went to the vet twice and after the second visit I got a hold of her and she told me that they had run a full PCR test on them and there were no signs of parasites or other bacterial infection, however they did test positive for feline coronavirus. She said there really is no treatment, they are otherwise healthy, and would have to see if they can grow out of their symptoms. She suggested we try probiotics and some anti-inflammatory but not drugs as that can upset the balance. But she also told me that she would not operate (spay) them while they have this issue and that we might need to rethink the adoption. So I did buy some s. boulardii that I had read about on this site (thank you for that) and also several items off of Vitality Science, an anti-inflammatory, gut restore-immunity and some bentonite clay solution to help detox. The plan is to give that a try for a few weeks or so but I also think we may not be able to get them well enough to get fixed and now we are just fostering them for a while? That seems to be what the HS thinks anyways because anytime anyone does contact us (vet or HS) they refer to us as the foster parents. Really wasn't what our intention was so not sure how we are going to move forward. I guess the kittens have put on good weight and the vet said they really grew in the past month so they are at least doing good. But looks like we might not be able to adopt.

 

[Willowy]

FeCov is extremely common---most cats will test positive. That shouldn't cause prolonged severe diarrhea though. I wonder if they have giardia. It sometimes doesn't show up in a fecal test. You might want to ask about giving them a round of metronidazole just in case. Coccidia is another possibility.

I'm sure the shelter is just calling you a foster home because they aren't allowed to adopt out unspayed cats, and fully intend to adopt them out to you when possible. They can't adopt them out to anyone else, either, so I don't think they want to take the cats back unless they're going to put them down. It wouldn't hurt to clarify that with someone, though. Maybe get it in writing.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. Double check what all was tested for in the PCR panel that was performed on them. I think giardia is in that panel, but not sure about coccidia. But, examining fecal matter under a microscope would almost certainly identify coccidia. Also, ask the shelter what food they were feeding these kittens and if they had diarrhea before you got them. It might be a food issue too, and could be more likely for both of them to be affected since they are littermates.

I agree with W Willowy about the foster situation, so yes - call to verify. There a tons of 'foster to adopt' situations, as well as many foster fails (meaning the foster couldn't give up the cats and adopted them). I think given your foster status, you have first 'dibs'.

 

[Snickersdoodle]

I had asked the vet about the test missing things and she said they checked for DNA, so there should not have been a false negative/positive or whatever you call it. I believe they did look for coccidia, giardia and t. foetus because we discussed all of those. The vet tech did say that there were other kittens (not the same litter) from HS that they had been testing but also had unresolved diarrhea. We did get these two a round of metronidazole as well as a second round of dewormer, first round was done at the shelter. We have asked the HS about what the plan going forward is but they did not say. They only feed science diet there, which is crap food in my opinion, and also will not discuss any prior information regarding their health or situation.

 

[Snickersdoodle]

They also sneeze a lot.

 

[FeebysOwner]

The sneezing could be about anything - pollen, dust, mold, or other allergy related issues. If they don't have discharge from their eyes or nose, it wouldn't seem to be upper respiratory related. And, I have no idea how that would connect with the diarrhea.

Is there any reason why you can't take them to a vet of your own choosing? I realize that means you pay for it, but as far as I know, you can do that as a foster if you want.

 

[Snickersdoodle]

Why would I need to take them to a different vet? This is the same vet center we have gone to in the past two decades and they have always been good. One of the best here. They didn't tell me anything off base from what I can tell. The vet said another round of the meds at this point might just upset their guts more and I think that makes sense. We could try it again later, but after a few weeks of antibiotics their good bacteria is taking a beating. And this shelter does not operate that way I guess. They didn't want us to talk to the vet at all. The vet center just likes us and worked with us anyways. It is the HS director that is apparently difficult to work with. So I don't think this will be easy at all, or maybe even possible, to work out with them.

I am not familiar or experienced with giardia. Can it take a few rounds of the metronidazole to resolve?

The diarrhea and sneezing just makes me wonder about FIP.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I am not familiar or experienced with giardia. Can it take a few rounds of the metronidazole to resolve?...The diarrhea and sneezing just makes me wonder about FIP.

I am guessing from what I know, that more than just a couple of doses of metro would be required. At least you can check on that. And, this usually requires follow up testing to confirm it has been eradicated. If not, more meds are required.

As far as FIP - it does NOT automatically happen because a cat tests positive for coronavirus. More cats than not have coronavirus, and the majority live full healthy lives. What causes that virus to mutate in kittens and younger cats is other diseases that their bodies cannot fight off because their immune systems have not fully matured, allowing coronavirus to mutate. But, sneezing and diarrhea are no where near a diagnosis of FIP.

 

[Snickersdoodle]

Yes, I think that might be a good thing to follow up on once they have had a break. They just came off the meds. Again, the vet said just continuously dosing them with drugs can cause as much harm as it does good, which is why she recommended the probiotic. But also, the shelter would have to approve it. And they are not very cooperative or proactive in that department. I work with an animal advocacy group and the organizer told me the director of the HS here is a loon.

 

[artiemom]

Have you tried any probiotics? I am also thinking that you should have another PCR panel done, and checking for any and all parasites.

Did you happy to change their food from want the HS was feeding them? If it was an abrupt change, then this could also upset their tummies.

The idea of seeing a different Vet; andtaking all their previous records; is to have someone look at things with “fresh eyes”. No insult to you regular vet. Or even a specialist, internist.

 

[artiemom]

Ok. Answered my own questions. Sorry.

Could you just get the probiotic on your own? Time is going by.

sorry. You are very well informed and I had no right to interfere.

 

[Snickersdoodle]

No, that is alright. I am using the s. boulardii, which is a probiotic I found referenced on this site. And have ordered some other things to try.

We fed them two bags of the same food as the HS had said they were feeding. And started with the Science Diet sensitive stomach as that is also what the HS had said to try but then I had read that most food issues seem to be related to a sensitivity to chicken, which was the protein in both the Science Diet foods. We are currently migrating them to Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient Turkey. But again, since they have a lot of other kittens that are in the same boat as these two I cannot imagine it is really food related. A coworker also had her kitten adoption from them fall through because of unresolved diarrhea issues and that was from a different litter entirely.

None of these kittens are doing so poorly that they are in risk or anything, but because they cannot get it resolved it just halts the whole process.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Here are a couple more bacteria you might ask HS about whether or not it was included in the testing.
Fecal PCR test for Campylobacter spp. - Gastrointestinal Laboratory
Clostridium perfringens in Cats - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost

 

[Snickersdoodle]

The HS will not tell us anything. We have asked before and it just goes nowhere. We had to go around them to the vet to find out the results from the last test.

Looks like the s. boulardii is a good treatment option for the clostridum as well so seems like we are on the right track if they also have that. Not sure about the campy. I had read about that one and it also seems that if the gut balance can be restored the animal will recover.

If we can get them that second round of metro I would assume that would also kill off campy and clostridum. Seems like that is a treatment option for both of those.

 

[FeebysOwner]

"Erythromycin (10-20 mg/kg q 8 h PO for 5 days) has been reported to be the treatment of choice, but tylosin (25 mg/kg q 12 h PO for 7 days) is a good alternative for treatment of Campylobacter spp. infections .It should be noted that some antibiotics (e.g., enrofloxacin and metronidazole) can induce drug resistance."

"...but chronic cases of Clostridium perfringens in cats may be prescribed antibiotic therapy."

The above statements are quotes from the articles I gave you. Maybe if you end up getting another antibiotic for them, it should be Erythromycin. After reading some additional articles, it appears it is effective for both of these bacteria, and that Metro isn't as effective in either case.

Keep us posted!

 

[Snickersdoodle]

Starting to see some improvement with their bowel movements. Still a long way to go to get to a normal poop, but looks like we are heading in the right direction. Should get the rest of my holistic medicines today.

Are erthromycin and tylosin a more gentle antibiotic than metro? All I have ever given cats before was amoxicillin. The other three just didn't really have a lot of health issues. Damn them for leaving.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Starting to see some improvement with their bowel movements. Still a long way to go to get to a normal poop, but looks like we are heading in the right direction. Should get the rest of my holistic medicines today....Are erthromycin and tylosin a more gentle antibiotic than metro? All I have ever given cats before was amoxicillin. The other three just didn't really have a lot of health issues. Damn them for leaving.

Promising news about the BMs! Hope it continues in that direction and quickly!
I don't know if those two antibiotics are "more gentle" or not. I do know from reading a lot of posts on this site that Metro tastes nasty - not sure about the other two. And, based on those articles, it would seem infections must become resistant to it fairly easily. But, that could be just because it is so frequently used.

 

[artiemom]

I know that both typos in Tylosin and erythromycin taste nasty. Do not know about strength of one vs the other. Tylosin is used for IBD.

my last guy was in it, for a while.

 

[artiemom]

How are the babies?

 

[Snickersdoodle]

Well, they are both back to soup. Not sure if it is because we gave them some liquid clay solution for cats that is supposed to help coat the GI track and help with inflammation and it didn't agree with them or what the deal is. We did get a prescription for tylosin that we are going to pick up today.

But I ran into a gal I know yesterday who was also trying to adopt from the HS and is in a similar boat. She did not take the kitten home but had inquired about it three weeks ago, it also had diarrhea and is still not better. So her adoption did fall through. Seems they have quite a few sick kittens there right now.