Struggling With Play Time

Animal Freak

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We've had a bit of a set back in house training with Zena today. I'm not sure what happened. Hoping it's just a bad day. She's been peeing a lot and has had four accidents in the house today, I think. And she goes outside too. I think she's had almost as many accidents in one day than they've had the whole time we've had them. It's frustrating when they've been doing so well and Zara seems to be getting it. :sigh: And they've been getting more interested in the cats. Frost is always making weird noises at them and flicking his tail around which, of course, is really tempting. Ember is down around them quite a lot, so she ends up catching their attention. Zara is usually bad about listening and Zena has been particularly bad about it today. All around a pretty frustrating day, but hopefully things will be better tomorrow.

It is interesting to watch how the cats interact with them. I mean, they're always so irritable, but no one is forcing them to be there. You can't hate the puppies that much if you're going out of your way to be on the ground in the same room as them! Frost is getting a little less vocal now though. Sometimes they can get away with walking by him if they don't pay any attention to him. Ember was chased again today by the both of them, but she only got as far as the couch. Never left the room. She does tolerate them coming up behind her and sniffing her and her tail, but I try to keep them away anyway. If she flicks her tail just right or jumps onto a cat tree then they'll certainly try to go after her. I wish she didn't run from them though. I'd rather she give them a good slap and teach them a lesson than make it into a game. I know she won't actually hurt them.

Pretty much all rodents have relatively short lifespans. I do love them all! Well, all might be pushing it. I respect them all, I like most of them, I love a lot of them. Rats deserve more attention. They'd be a great option for someone who wants a pet to interact with but don't have the time/space/money for a cat or a dog. Hedgehogs are good too, but only really need handling to be tame. They don't get much out of a relationship with a human whereas rats can and do bond.
 

calicosrspecial

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I am so sorry, I never saw this until now. :(

Do you think Zena got an infection? That is odd she is making mistakes.

Frost seems like he wants to play. Ember is too funny.

It is interesting to watch the cats. Curiosity and of course wanting to play it seems. Ember seems to think it is fun. Forst and Ash don;t play like the dogs do.

That is too bad. Hahahaha, I think you love a lot of them!! I have heard that about rats. It is too bad they have a bad reputation. They are cute. Interesting hedgehogs don't bond. I wonder if that maybe isn't that accurate? It seems animals do bond though maybe not all. Even fish seem to bond which is surprising (to me).

How was Zena?
 

Animal Freak

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That's alright. I'm kept quite busy anyway.

I don't know. I was a bit worried maybe something was wrong, but she acts fine. The only other issue is she has thrown up her food a couple of times, but it doesn't look like she chews it and she gets quite excited. She's doing okay now, but I've been extra careful about taking her outside. She had one accident this morning because she pretty much immediately squatted on the kitchen rug after I let them out of the kennels this morning. We were on our way to going outside. :sigh: She's getting the bell training though so hopefully soon I'll be able to get her to ring the bell when she needs out.

Frost and Ember do get a bit hiss-y at times, so I don't think it's all fun and games. Things get a bit out of hand at time, but Ember is very tolerant when it does. I do think she was trying to play with Zara earlier. Zara was at the base of the cat tree and Ember was on one of the steps of the cat tree. I just saw Ember reaching down like she was smacking Zara, but there was no hissing or anything so I do believe that was playful. Frost is hard to read. He's gotten so vocal and he makes some of the same sounds during play as he does when he's upset. I can usually tell by how he acts, if he lays down...

I do. Rats really are awesome, but they do require some patience. Just like cats, they're curious and stubborn and good at getting into everything they aren't supposed to. We don't really have enough info to say exactly what animals can bond in what way, but I think it has to do with how they live in the wild. Social animals form bonds because that's what keeps them together. I'm almost certain that most--if not all--social animals can form bonds with people. But solitary animals? They have no need to even have the ability to form bonds otherwise they likely would. Hedgehogs are solitary animals. It isn't recommended to keep two together whereas with rats most ethical breeders require you have at least two. I'm not saying it's wrong or harmful to have an animal who doesn't bond though. If I believed it was, I wouldn't even think of getting one. Hedgehogs can be tamed and they can learn to trust, but it's not an animal that's going to become depressed if it's left on it's own for long periods of times.
 

calicosrspecial

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Well, I am sorry. I should not rely on an email and should check the site. :(

:/ I hope it isn't something. Does it seem too frequent? A morning accident is understandable. I am sure you have a good sense of when something isn't right and when it is just bad behavior. GREAT that you are training with a bell.

Oh yes, cats will. It can often just be a warning, nothing too major. Ember is REALLY tolerant. She really loves to play. I wonder how much of the stuff with Ash is really her just wanting to play. Sometimes cats LOVE to play "swat". Depends on how they do it, how fast. Mine LOVE to tap with their paws to get someone to play. Yes, that makes it harder (Frost) but as you say you can tell by how his body language is.

You have had rats before, right? Interesting they are like cats.

That makes sense. That is a good question. Do the babies have a bond with their mother in solitary animals? You points make sense. I didn't realize hedgehogs were solitary. I would not have thought that. Oh no, I agree, it isn't wrong or harmful to have a solitary animal that doesn't bond.

Ahhhhhh, I see what you mean by bonding. Learning to trust I would call a bond. Maybe I didn't say it right.

Interesting rats need pairs. I didn't know that. It is interesting to see loyalty like in ducks etc. The faithfulness.

The animal kingdom is really amazing. It is amazing to think of how they might be thinking. How bees think or what a bird is thinking when they are building a nest or feeding their fledgling. Amazing stuff.
 

Animal Freak

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I'm a little worried about the throwing up, honestly. I don't know enough about how much/often they should be peeing. I only have Leon and Lamont to go off of and they went way more than these two. It was pretty much constant when they were in the kitchen. But just earlier today I took them out. They both peed. We came in and I laid a towel down in case they had an accident and almost immediately Zena went and peed on it! It was maybe ten or fifteen minutes after being outside and they can usually go at least an hour. At this point I'm not sure if she's peeing too often or if maybe she's faking it while we're outside to get treats. They already figured out squatting twice to get more treats. But this morning I woke up at five to Zena throwing up. She just swallows it back down which means it happens three or four times in a row and I can't see what she's throwing up. And they decided to wake up at 2 a.m. this morning. Then Zena threw up at 5a.m. Then they started barking at Ember in the litter box at 7a.m.

Ember was back to rolling around in front of them today. She did it with just Zena which went over fairly well, but she tried it again with both of them and that was a bit much. Zara got excited and started jumping around and Zena stepped on Ember. But I still can't get over how tolerant and trusting she is with them. Like it's totally natural for her to be with crazy puppies. And to think how worried I was when I decided to start fostering because I didn't want to stress her out!

Yes, I had two females. ❤ They are just like cats except more trainable. As in you can teach them to do tricks. Good luck teaching them to stay out of stuff. Very food motivated and extremely intelligent. YouTube has all sorts of videos of rats doing tricks.

It's a good question about the young bonding with their parents. Honestly, I don't know. I don't know much about that aspect in hedgehogs or other animals. A lot of babies pretty much leave as soon as their able to live on their own, so they don't really need much of a bond, but I'd imagine the mother would have to have some sort of bond with her young or she wouldn't care for them at all. I didn't know hedgehogs were solitary either until I started researching them. Of course it was one of my questions when I got interested in them because I wanted to know if I'd have to get two.

I think trust is part of a bond, but not necessarily all of it. Bonds go deeper. If you have a bond then you really enjoy their company, seek out their attention, etc. A hedgehog isn't likely to do that. At least not as far as I'm aware, but I do believe it's hard to know if you haven't lived with one and had the chance to see for yourself. They're more likely to be neutral and not really care whether you're there or not.

Oh, yes. Rats live in complex and tight knit family groups in the wild. They can get depressed if kept on their own. If you ask someone from the pet store or someone who hasn't actually gotten in the "rat world" then they'll tell you that they'll be fine as long as you give them an hour or two of attention each day, but when you actually get in depth then you learn it's quite different. Even if you spent every second of every day with a rat, it wouldn't be the same as having a rat companion. They can bond with people, but it's not the same with dogs where they've been bred alongside us so long that we can replace another of their own kind. My one rat had to euthanized 12 days after her sister died because she came down with pneumonia. I absolutely believe that the loss of her sister impacted her health. She started getting sick days after her sister died.

It is really amazing. Maybe some day we'll know how they think and we'll know more about just what they do and don't feel, etc. It would be cool to know.
 

calicosrspecial

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:( I would mention it to the rescue (the throwing up).

I know, it is hard to know whether the peeing is excessive. I usually go on what they have been doing and watching how much they drink. I wonder if putting the towel down was kind of an invitation? Like a puppy pad. Did they have another foster home?

Poor Zena. I wonder if something is going on on the throwing up. Is she chewing on and eating things?

Hahahaha, Ember!! Motherly instinct probably AND wanting to have playmates. I really wonder if Ember's shenanigans are all about play (with Ash). She really is doing well with them. What a wonderful thing!!

I thought so. Awwwwwww, that is cool. Yeah, just like cats (keeping them out of things). I heard they are extremely intelligent. I am goin to check out youtube for those. Very interesting.

It is really interesting. I would imagine a mother would have a bond but maybe it is "just a job"? I don't know.

That is fair. Maybe some day you will get a hedgehog and find out. It will be fascinating.

Interesting. I didn't know that. I am not surprised someone in a pet store would say that since all they tend to care about is money. I am so sorry about your rat. It sounds like it very well could be that. Like when people are married for a long time and one dies and the other dies within a short time. The will to live goes away. It really makes a person think differently about rats.

It would be very cool. Maybe with computers some day? I am pretty good at telling what cats and dogs are feeling. Sometimes you can just tell but it is nowhere near complete. Even humans can't always communicate their feelings and thoughts for a few reasons even with being able to speak. It is pretty amazing. I always think it is good to put yourself in the "shoes" of another person or animal. Of course with people we can relate to hopefully a large degree but with animals we may a little but can't fully. It would be nice if we could. Maybe some day. It would be really cool. I think there is a lot more going on in animals than humans think.

Do you know where the puppies came from? I hope Zena is ok.
 

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I'm thinking a vet visit is in order for Zena.
 
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Animal Freak

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My mom called earlier today. So far they don't seem too concerned and aren't ready to take her to the vet, but since then she's thrown up again and it was hours after eating. It was a small amount of food that, once again, barely looked like it was chewed.

I'm not sure about if they had other fosters. They came from Arkansas. There's a rescue there that pulls animals out of high kill shelters. They keep some animals, but send most of them to other no kill shelters. That's where the majority of the dogs come from. Leon and Lamont came from there too. They do pick up on going on the towels pretty easily. We keep them in a pen with towels down. We don't teach them to go on them, but they figure it out. Leon and Lamont did as well. Just not the second I put it down.

Just everything! Well, she doesn't eat things that much. They do eat sticks and dirt outside, but that's about it and I haven't seen anything in the vomit other than food.

Would be nice if she could be that way with kittens too. I could use a break from puppies. Sometimes Ember gets into slap fights with Ash and it can be hard to tell if that's play or not, but most of the time she ends up hissing, spitting, bushing her tail out, etc. Those things have never been playful.

They are very smart. The smartest of the small rodents. They're also agile, fast, small, and stubborn. Not the greatest combination if you don't have much patience, but they can keep you on your toes. They can't see very well though. I want to say they can only see 30 cm? I wouldn't quote me on that, but it's pretty bad. You'd never know though. They can zip across a room and get across every obstacle you put in front of them without hesitation.

I would love to find out! Hopefully some day. I always have a hard time decided what animals are okay to have which shouldn't be in captivity, but I do think hedgehogs are some that'll be fine. It's just hard to know without having them and living with them.

Yeah, the beginning of my research into rats led me to believe that two wasn't necessary but beneficial. I'm glad I got two. I would've felt terrible if I had gotten just one after the man at the store said one would be fine. I wasn't one to really believe that anyone's health could be that affected by something like loss, but I do believe it now. At the very least I believe it happens with rats, but I can see it being possible now. The timing of it was way too weird to just be a coincidence.

Maybe. It would be neat to know. I'd like to know more about the animals that don't have so many expressions. We definitely have more to learn about cats and dogs, but they're fairly expressive. Even getting to rats and hedgehogs, you can read a lot from body language but not so much from facial expressions. Animals like snakes and lizards would be really cool to live about. I have a hard time with whether or not they should be in captivity because they don't even need a ton of body language among their species because they're so solitary. There's some obvious agitated signs, but there's fewer signs of them being just discontented or slightly stressed.
 

calicosrspecial

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I am glad your mom called. :( Poor thing. A few hours after is odd. Would think if she was eating too fast it would happen sooner.

Yes, that makes sense. I wonder if it could be a little territorial thing (not sure why though) and of course thinking a towel = pee place.

Like most puppies. :/ Maybe she is allergic? Does she have any scratching issues?

Yes, it would be nice. Who knows, maybe she would be? I wonder if she gets frustrated that Ash doesn't want to play or doesn't like the way he does it.

Wow. Interesting. I am really surprised they can't see. Is it scent and their whiskers that help them?

:) Yes, I agree.

You made the right decision. It really is amazing how loyal. A lot of animals are loyal like that. Maybe I am a little surprised they can be affected so much but I can see it. It is kinda sad that they are that sensitive. :(

Yes, I need to learn a lot more about cats and dogs. They are amazing. I can't imagine trying to figure out those with less expressions. I hear you on whether they should be in captivity. I don't have the answer. It is interesting. I sure know how a rattlesnake expresses its displeasure!!! But I don't know how other snakes and reptiles would like you say. It would be awful to have a stressed animal and not know it. :( It s pretty amazing trying to think about this.
 

Animal Freak

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She threw up again today. This time in the middle of a meal. For lunch and snack time I usually make a couple of Kongs and one goes in the kennel with the Kong while the other gets a training session. Then I switch them. Zena gets the Kong first (Zara is less motivated to do training, so I do it while she's really hungry), but she never finishes it. She ate maybe 2/3 of the small Kong and was a few minutes into the training session when she threw up all of a sudden. There's no way she had eaten it too fast, but it still doesn't seem like she's chewing it.

I have no clue, but it's getting exhausting. If it was just the towels then it wouldn't be such a big deal, but she's gone on the carpet a couple of times, on the dog beds probably four or five times, on a coat, and on a blanket. She's also now gone on my backdrop for photos. :ohwell: I knew it would happen eventually using it for pet photography. I'm just happy I went with the black backdrop over the white. But then it got peed on again! Didn't catch who it was since they were both in the same area and I was trying to put the stuff up. Zara hasn't had an accident in the house, but it's hard to believe Zena peed again when she had just gone and was taken outside where she also squatted.

She is quite itchy. Zara is too, but Zena more so. I remember Leon and Lamont being itchy too though. Not sure why. We were terrified they might have fleas, but never found any. So we didn't think too much of it when these two ended up itchy as well.

Ember might. I've gone back and forth on whether we should try. I don't want to end up with kittens that stress my cats out, but I'd like to try. Ash doesn't really play with her much anymore since she makes him a tad nervous. She doesn't instigate play with him much either. He'd play with her if he felt confident she wasn't going to attack him though.

It's really surprising, especially if you watch them navigate. It's pretty easy to forget they can't see well. Their sense of smell is amazing and they can see silhouettes and outlines. And yes, the whiskers help too.

Yeah, it's amazing how loyal animals can be. It can be hard to believe until you see it. It's sad, but also touching.

Different snakes show aggression/fear/agitation in different ways. Some play dead, belly up. Some have bright colored bellies/tails that they flip over and flash at predators to scare them off because bright colors usually means danger in the animal world. Ball pythons ball up (hence the name) to hide their head. If pushed, most snakes will pull back into a strike position. But those are pretty extreme emotions to get them out of danger. What about more subtle things? Like just minor stress. Even minor stress becomes an issue over time. They're not active animals and they have no facial expressions, so how does one know? And now you know where my mind goes and the conflicts I have with myself.
 

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Hi! Please reconsider getting her to the vet. It could be an allergy or something else...
 

calicosrspecial

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:( Poor thing. Something seems to be going on.

:( And with the peeing. Does it seem like more of infection peeing? I am worried there might be more to this. :(

I wonder if it is an allergy. Let's hope that is "all" it is.

Yes, it is tricky with other cats. Especially with 3 residents. The last thing you want to do is stress them out especially Ash. Ember does seem like she wants a friend but the boys are just a little less interested. :(

That is. I never knew. Pretty amazing. Blind cats can do amazing things as well. Nature is amazing, how animals can adapt.

Yes. Totally agree. But at least the living years are more rewarding.

Interesting, I didn't know some of that. I know a rattlesnake doesn't really want to strike unless they absolutely have to. The belly things are really interesting. Yes, it sounds like it is really hard to discern minor stress. Yes, the conflicts are because you care about the animal's well being. Which is good. It is just how we handle and deal with the conflict in the most positive way. I do think you are doing a really good job on those conflicts. I am really impressed. Do you think you have made progress? Handling things better lately?

I am worried about Zena. :(
 

Animal Freak

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I'd definitely feel better if I could take her to the vet, but I can understand the shelter not wanting to spend money if it ended up being nothing. She hasn't thrown up yet today. And I really don't know if the peeing is excessive. It's not every ten minutes or anything like that, but it just seemed more than she was previously going. Maybe they're drinking more though. She squats twice outside a lot, so I'm wondering if she doesn't always finish peeing. She doesn't usually expect more treats from me after going a second time.

The boys are definitely less interested. They tend to be a bit calmer whereas Ember has the more extreme reactions. Ash is a risk with his UTIs, of course. Frost probably wouldn't be happy, but he'd get over. He might even prefer kittens over big rambunctious puppies.

It's pretty cool. They're very adaptable and clever. Candy could get out of her cage and she'd chew threw the treat bags. We got a box with the lid that folded in on itself and she could actually get that open. She could always find my glass of tea too...

Striking is usually a last resort for snakes. Except babies... Babies can be aggressive little things. Even ball pythons can be quite bite-y as babies though adults will usually ball up rather than bite. I know the ring necked snake is known for having a bright colored belly. They flip their tails over to flash the bright color as a warning though they're quite harmless. They're quite pretty. But yeah, those minor issues aren't so easy to see. Some snakes will stop eating out of stress, but then some snakes just stop eating for the sake of it. It seems like every time I think I've made a decision, I end up changing my mind. At this point, I just don't think I have enough information. We probably shouldn't have started the exotic pet trade to begin with, but it's here now and it's not so easy to get rid of. There are definitely some animals that shouldn't be in captivity, but where exactly that line is I don't know.
 

calicosrspecial

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Totally understand. I am glad to hear that she hasn't thrown up today so far. Try to figure out what the cause may be (eating too fast, running after eating, etc).

Ahhhhhhh, I understand on the peeing. Did they spay her already?

Yes, they are. But they tend not to want to initiate play with each other as much so it makes sense. I can see that. Ash and stress would be the biggest risk. :(

It really is. They seem like it. Oh my, she was something!!! Hahahaha

YES. A friend almost got bitten by a baby rattler and that was scary. With the older ones it is a little easier to deal with. Wow, on not eating. Can you imagine being a reptile vet? Well, that is because you care about making the best and right decision. I know, I don't have the answers either.
 

Animal Freak

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Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. It's been a bit crazy.

I took Zena to the vet Friday morning. She threw up again Thursday evening shortly after their dinner. I was supposed to just drop her off, but the vet ended up seeing her right away when I got there. He took a fecal sample and found a bacteria. Some module spiral bacteria? Something like that. She's on an antibiotic and a probiotic, and she hasn't thrown up since Thursday. My biggest concern was that they had meets today and I didn't want her going home and then being sick. I brought up the meets to the vet and he recommended waiting a week before adopting her out. I'm not sure if we're going to wait a week as long as she's not throwing up, but we would like to keep her until she's done with her antibiotics which will after Sunday. We should know by then if she's better.

We did have meets today and we took them both. Didn't really have any other choice since we couldn't leave Zena alone, but we figured people could meet her and if they really wanted her then they could get her a few days or so. But neither got adopted. :frustrated: We have no idea way. Even the other foster and shelter workers said they expected these two to go first. The other foster there flat out admitted she doesn't do near as much as I do. She had three of the pups (seven total) and basically keeps her fosters in a room. No one does the training I do and the lady said she couldn't tell people as much about her pups as I could. The only thing we can think of is because my pups are more confident and outgoing. The others were quieter and calmer. I'm guessing due to a lack of socialization/desensitization Though apparently the other fosters have said that these are sweetest, most well-mannered pups they've ever had so maybe we just got unlucky and ended up with the crazy pups. Apparently everyone put in applications for Zena, but they all lost interest pretty quickly. Our two are the only ones who didn't get adopted. :sigh:

No, not spayed.

I'll probably have to put off fostering kittens until we have more space anyway. We don't have anywhere to keep them other than this pen in the middle of our house. Can't actually separate them.

She really was. Anyone who gave them half a chance liked Candy. Anyone who wasn't bothered by them being rats loved her. She was tolerant and friendly and outgoing. Her sister was a little more timid and standoffish, but not overly skittish or anything. She was friendly enough, but her claws were always sharp.

Babies are fierce. Ball pythons are actually known for going on hunger strikes for no apparent reason. It's the only thing that makes them less ideal for beginners since they're otherwise calm, tolerant snakes who don't often bite (as an adult). It can be hard to get them back to eating and it's not as if they eat often to begin with. I couldn't imagine being a vet for reptiles at all. It is hard to figure out what's right and wrong sometimes.
 

calicosrspecial

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No reason to apologize, I totally understand.

Whew, that is great that you got her to the vet and that they found the issue. Great that she hasn't thrown up since. Yes, agreed, it is best to best that you get her healthy before she gets adopted out. Let's hope she is on her way to getting over it. I am so glad you took such good care of her. I hope she gets well soon!!

Oh, I wouldn't worry. It happens. Zena and Zara will get adopted. They not only are really adorable they are also really good dogs. You are doing a great job with them. I would keep doing what you are doing. It isn't what you are doing or the dogs that is the issue. Sometimes it just happens. If I was adopting I would absolutely adopt them. But of course, I know a lot more than the people looking to adopt at the meets. So don't worry, don't second guess, just keep doing what you are doing. You are doing a great job in my eyes!!!

Ahhhhh. So it wasn't something with the surgery. That is good. Could it be the bacteria I wonder? Not sure it would be but I am not a vet.

Yes, then it is best to hold off. You can just do puppies. ;)

Awwwwww, she had charisma. Did she scratch or just when she walked on a person her claws would scratch a little?

Poor ball pythons. :( That is sad. They are so sensitive. :( Yes, really hard to be a vet. :(

Hang in there. Let's hope Zena gets well soon (she should now). Did she loss weight or not gain as much?

And they will get adopted. They just need to find the right person/family. They are (I think) a little bigger so that might have gone against them a bit. But they will find a great home. Keep doing what you are doing and taking great care of them. You are doing great.

I am so happy to hear Zena is on the way to getting better. Let's hope it continues.
 

Animal Freak

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Still no more vomiting, so it looks like we're in the clear. Only one more pill left. This is my first time having to pill an animal. I've done capsules sprinkled on food and syringes, but never pills. She's doing pretty well with it. I woke her up for it a couple of times. This morning she didn't put up a fight or anything.

I've fostered twice and twice I've had the last puppy(ies). We expected everyone to want Zena and that we'd be struggling to keep her with us until she's better since the lady said everyone had put her on their applications. I wish I knew why no one picked her though. Zara was a bit crazy until she was worn out, but Zena was friendly and affectionate. Playful, but not crazy. She was more interested in people than most of the puppies that got adopted quickly. I expected Zara to be adopted even if only because she was smallest and she has a cute face. I love her, but I was ready to see her get adopted! She's just a lot. A fun pup, but tiring. I think she'll be better without another puppy though.

I'm not sure. I mentioned the peeing to the vet and he didn't say anything about it. But I'm guessing not since the throwing up stopped, but the peeing hasn't. It seems like every time I think we're getting somewhere she ends up backtracking again. She had an accident yesterday. I took her outside and she squatted twice. Then maybe ten or fifteen minutes after coming back in she had another accident! But then at other times she can go over half and hour without needing to go.

She did. No, Cookie didn't scratch. She never really left any marks or anything (unless I bathed her), but it was like little pin pricks as she walked across your bare skin. It didn't bother me much, but it was probably uncomfortable for young kids or older people with thin skin. Candy's claws were always blunt and rounded. Never hurt even when she clawed her way up my arm to escape the bath. I never figured out why they were so different when they lived in the same place.

Well, it's not really known why ball pythons stop eating. That's what makes it hard. Could be illness, could be stress, could be something else entirely. There's no proof it's always some sort of stressor or anything. They're pretty tolerant snakes. About as friendly as a snake can be.

The vet didn't seem worried about her weight. I don't know exactly how much she weighed when we first got her. The largest pup was 10lbs and Zena was 11.6lbs at the vet, so she definitely put on some weight. She's getting big.

Zena was one of the biggest and I figured that would go against her, but Zara looked like she was the smallest. The size differences were a bit more subtle in this litter, unlike Leon and Lamont's litter. Still makes for a pretty big difference between Zena and Zara (one of the biggest and one of the smallest), but harder to tell with seven puppies running around which are biggest.
 

calicosrspecial

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Awesome!! Fingers crossed. Let's hope. Dogs tend to be a bit easier but can be a challenge. Sounds like you have done a great job and Zena has really behaved. SO terrific!!!

Well, I wouldn't take anything from that. Interesting. Who knows why it doesn't happen. Things do happen for reasons though. Sounds like Zena was really good. Zara sounds fun but maybe the people were a little scared off. Who knows. They are adorable dogs, they will fine homes.

:( Hmmmmmmmm. Could it be territorial maybe? Maybe it is best she didn't get adopted yet.

Ahhhhh, that isn't so bad then. I wonder too why they would be so different since the environment was the same.

Do they stop eating in the wild or just in captivity? Or don't they know? Cool they are friendly. Python sounds so scary.

That is good.

Interesting. So true. I couldn't really tell from your pics. They just both looked so adorable!!

Now to why the peeing.......... :/
 

Animal Freak

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Zena's last pill was last night. Once again, she did fantastic. I had to wake her up to take it. She sat in my lap and I popped the pill in. She swallowed it without issue. Looks like we're in the clear.

It's just surprising that the other less affectionate dogs got adopted first. Usually people seem to gravitate towards the dogs that want to play with them and go up to them rather than the dogs that wander off and aren't interested. So it was surprising on a lot of different levels. The head of fostering (not sure what her actual title is) went on and on about how everyone wants blond puppies and black dogs always get adopted last, but they got adopted first this time around. Well, a brown one was adopted first. Then three black/tan/white dogs. The other blond puppy was the last to be adopted and obviously we still have our two. We're planning on limiting our fostering of two puppies though. I put way too much work into it to keep up with two puppies. Every now and then maybe, but I'd much rather foster one puppy. They just got a big fluffy puppy yesterday and I'm a bit upset I can't foster it. It would probably be a bit big for Stella's liking anyway though...

I don't know. She seems a bit young to be territorial and it doesn't even seem like she puts much thought into it or anything. She doesn't look for a spot. She just walks over and pees. I'm still wondering if she isn't finishing at one time.

No, it wasn't too bad. I think it contributed to her being less popular than her sister. Most of the people that wanted to hold them were kids. Kids always preferred Candy though they were both friendly. Cookie was less inclined to run up to you and she had sharper nails, but she was still tolerant.

I don't think they know much about snakes in the wild. Most of my research has been on them in captivity, so I'm not positive but they tend to be secretive and fairly inactive animals. Plus meals aren't really consistent in the wild. They might go a while without eating, but it would probably be hard to know if it was intentional or if it was just due to a lack of food or at least a lack of success in hunting.

I just posted some more pictures of them on my other thread about them.
 
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