Struggling With Play Time

calicosrspecial

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Stella trusts her it sounds. That is so great that Stella has gotten along so well with them. Ember is like the room monitor watching over everything to make sure everyone behaves. Hahahahaha

That is so great. Dogs also want to please their "master" while cats don't really care oftentimes. Stella sounds like a great dog. It is very cool.

:( I wonder why he is feeling insecure if it isn't medical. Could there be ferals coming around the house and marking? It is that time of year. Let me know where exactly he is going (by windows, doors, outside walls, etc). Make sure you give him attention and love. Spoil him a little. Play if possible. Makes sure you clean the spot with an enzymatic cleaner so the scent is taken away. Just think of anything that might be going on to cause this. I suspect he smells some intact males around. :/
 
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Yeah, it's all been great. Stella has really gained her confidence around them. Ember is definitely very protective of her domain. I've noticed she seems to be getting up on things more. She's been jumping up on the toilet and the draws by the sink. Neither are really high, but I never saw her get on them before. This morning she jumped up on the top of the curio cabinet. I had to lure her back down because I didn't want to leave with her up there. It's pretty easy for them to get up and down, but I didn't want her to jump straight down and hurt herself. It's high enough that she can touch the ceiling and she's not very graceful for a cat.

She is. She has her problems, but she's really great. Sometimes I have to stop and remember just how wonderful she is. Particularly on those really bad days where every little sound sets her off. :doh:

It's only been in the bathroom which is about as far from doors and windows as you can get. I haven't seen any signs of cats, but I know that's no guarantee. We do throw food out, but nothing particularly appealing to cats. Mostly bread and vegetables. And it's always on a towel, but not every day there's a towel on the floor. I did get him and Ember playing tonight. I tied their ribbon/string toy to a catnip mouse and dragged that around. They really enjoyed it. I doubt he's feeling very loved today though. I had to wash his backend. I did as little as possible and Ember hasn't attacked him, but it has been a little tense.
 

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That is great. It sounds like Ember is really coming into her own now. Love it.

We all have our problems but it sounds like Stella's are pretty minor. She sounds great. That is fantastic.

Hmmmm, always in the bathroom? On a towel? Is it a towel that you used only or is it a towel that was used by anyone?

I have ferals that were fed bread by a neighbor before I started taking care of them. Even today, the girl LOVES bread.

That is great that they were playing. Fantastic.

:( Poor guy. But it has to be done. Just give him a little extra attention to ease his tension. At least Ember was good to him.
 
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She really has come a long way. I hope she continues to feel more comfortable with her surroundings and realizes there's no need for her to be so defensive.

They're definitely not huge issues like aggression, but it's a bit sad that they could have been so easily avoided if she had been properly socialized and worked with as a puppy. And she is aggressive towards big dogs which is a bit of a problem since I love them, but I'm hoping we can work on that.

I'm not sure, but I would say it could be a towel used by either of us. I haven't really paid attention to who used the towels, but I doubt it's one I used every time.

Well, I didn't mean to say a cat wouldn't eat it, but it's not as though we're putting meat out or anything that would really attract them. I accidentally discovered Ember likes crescent rolls though, so I guess bread can be of interest to them and not just cats who don't get food regularly.

Yeah, definitely can't complain about Ember's behavior. She did have a bit of an odd encounter with Stella today though. The dog was laying on the couch and Ember stood on the floor with her front paws up on the couch. She just stared at Stella like she was sizing her up and deciding whether or not she should attack. Stella could tell she was being targeted too. She got very nervous and was watching Ember. It went on for what felt like quite a long time before she suddenly lurched forward like she was going to attack and Stella was ready to take off, but then Ember stopped and ended up leaving.
 

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I thin she definitely will. She is in great hands.

I understand but I know you can overcome any issues. Small dogs can be a bit aggressive to big dogs. It is pretty crazy. You can definitely work on it and improve it.

Try to pay attention to it. It could be an ownership thing. Now towels etc can be nice for cats to go on as well since it is like litter, dirt, etc. Soft, easily covered, etc.

Oh I understand. It surprised me as well when I found a cat interested in breads etc rather than meats/protein. It is interesting they like breads. Like Ember with crescent rolls.

It most likely was wanting to play. Very common for a cat. One of mine today was crazy wild wanting to play with the dogs. Sometimes they just have energy and want to play. It can look funny but knowing the history and how they get along it sure seems to me like Ember just wanted to play (wanting to get a reaction from her). Ember probably thought "ok, I guess you don't want to play". Ember probably wanted to have a fun chase but Stella didn't do it. Very common in my household.
 
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Stella just wasn't socialized properly. I think she had two, maybe three, encounters with a bigger dog when she was young and it was a young pitbull mix. I was only there once and I don't know if it was because I was there or what, but Stella was not happy. Hackles up, barking, growling, etc. I put her on the leash and sat on the floor with her while I petted the dog and she finally got over it and they played, but I think that was the last meeting they ever had. Otherwise she grew up with five other dogs and only one would have been bigger than her and just barely. It's more fear than anything, but she will attack when in familiar territory. I'm not sure how to work on it though because I don't really have much access to big dogs.

I was kind of wondering if maybe he was getting protective over them and didn't want to share. He typically really like laying on the towels, so I thought it was odd that he was peeing on them. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on him. Other than a fluctuating apetite, he seems totally fine. He purred during the whole training session today and is officially following vocal commands and not just visual commands. Frost is too though a little more hesitantly.

It is interesting. I wonder why. Ember will eat bread, but not like she liked the crescent roll. I don't really give her bread anymore since she doesn't benefit from it and doesn't care for it. She did get away with the roll though because it caught me off-guard and she wasn't really getting much off of it.

I don't know. It was pretty tense. Stella doesn't take a hint very well, but she was very nervous. It definitely seemed a lot like when Ember is thinking about attacking. But maybe. They have been getting along pretty well. Maybe Stella got a little tense being cornered and Ember picked up on that. Nothing came of it so I'm not worried.
 

calicosrspecial

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That makes sense. Yeah, it is tough to work on without access. But I know some dogs just do have that aggressiveness to bigger dogs (the idea a good offense is a good defense).

It very well could be that. Territorial marking. Why would be the question........

It is great all else is going well though. Frost might be a bit lazy on it?

I know. It is mindboggling. Why one thing and not a similar thing. Yeah, I try not to give them that either but sometimes I do break down and give a little. :(

It could be. Cats can sense different emotions and when an emotion changes to fear etc (or acts like prey) it can cause a change in the cats response to protect themselves etc. But I agree, nothing came of it and they do love each other so it seems pretty minor. I don't think Ember would want to hurt Stella (or vice versa).
 
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Yeah, small dogs definitely seem a bit defensive. I don't know if Stella is aggressive or just fearful though. In familiar territory, she will attack them. There is no trying to avoid them or acting fearful. It's barking, growling, hackles raised, trying to bite them. But elsewhere I've seen her literally jump backwards to avoid another dog. So there's definitely fear there, but can she be both fearful and aggressive? Or is she just overly defensive of "her" territory? It's hard to say.

I'm not sure if Frost is lazy or just a little bit slow. He could be kind of like me. It always takes me a moment to process.

Ember is very persistent. I've been trying to not give her human food because of her weight, but it's like the longer I go without sharing, the more daring she gets. I swear she's going to end up crawling onto my plate one day.

They have been getting along great. I'm probably starting to sound a bit redundant, but it's hard to believe how far we've come. I think back on the time when they couldn't be in the same room and compare it to now where Ember lays on Stella, headbutts her, and Stella seems totally fine and friendly around her. No more tension, minimal slapping... It took a long time, but I think the time put into this process just makes that much more spectacular. I appreciate where they're at now because of where they began. And no, I don't think either wants to hurt the other. I don't think Ember has ever wanted or really tried to hurt anyone. My only concern would be Stella hurting one of them on accident. It did happen once when she was younger and she tried playing with the two pound Yorkie, but I doubt it'll ever happen again. Sometimes she doesn't know her own strength. She's mostly learned not to mess with the cats though.
 

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It is hard to say. In my experience it is mostly fear driven aggression but I am sure it can be something else.

Frost seems pretty smart though. I am guessing lazy. Mine get that way at times.

Hahahahaha, sounds like 2 of my cats!!

I think it is great and you can thank yourself, for all the time and effort you put into making it better. It really is wonderful to get to a point where they get along when at one point it seemed impossible. I have two ferals that literally wanted (and tried) to kill each other. Now they eat together, rub on each other, sleep together, protect each other. It is the greatest feeling to see that. I know what you are feeling. Hard to describe in words though but I know the feeling.
 
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Well, I can tell there is fear there. It's what causes such a sudden change when she's in familiar territory that I don't know. Or how to fix it.

He's smarter than most give him credit for. He was the first to figure out the treat dispenser. For a long time, he was the only one, but I think Ember got it once or twice. Ash seems to be doing the best with tricks which is somewhat surprising. Of all of them, he's the least food motivated and the most antisocial. He doesn't do anything to please anyone other than himself and he's never shown so much interest in treats before. Frost isn't far behind him though. I think Ember knows she can get better food from me with less work, but she still participates. She just seems a little less eager.

Fortunately I only have one like that.

It is really, truly amazing. I think it's wonderful to witness them overcome their fears and befriend those they were once terrified of. It seems like first impressions and fears tend to stick more with humans. They don't let go of grudges so easily, but animals can go from one end of the spectrum to the other; from enemies to best friends. It might take some time, but they get over it eventually and learn that they can, indeed, coexist.
 

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I think you just have to give her time and try to make sure those fearful situations don't lead to any actual negative encounters. The more she realizes that there isn't a bad result then hopefully in time she will be less fearful.

It seemed like he is. Ash is funny, some cats are just like that. Hahahaha, Ember is pretty smart too. And I am sure she gets what she wants. :)

YES!!! But I still love them for all their faults.

It really is. Well, I have seen cats stay with first impressions as well. It can take a lot of effort to try to get them to get over it. Humans sadly do stay with first impressions, I agree. It is sad to be honest. Animals can learn to coexist nicely and if they become friends it is such a win. I still marvel at my experience. Just wonderful.
 
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Yeah, have to figure out how to go about it though. I was going to ask my cousins to borrow their dog this spring, but they're moving. Not far, but too far for me to be able to walk over and pick up the dog. They have a ways to go before they can move, but they will be gone eventually.

She does. A lot. I'm trying to be careful with that when it comes to food though. Ash if giving my high five now though! He was a bit timid at first, but he took to it quickly and he loves doing it!

Yes, it does take effort, but I've seen a nervous cat with almost no experience with dogs become something at least close to friends with one. That in itself is impressive. And that a perfectly fine human can't always do something like that is quite sad. Humans could learn from animals.
 

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Well, maybe until they move you can try?

Yes, mine too. That is so cool about Ash. Well done!! That also builds confidence, great in all ways.

YES, AGREED!!

In all honestly, I prefer animals over humans. Bad to say but true. Sure there are many good humans but overall animals are better in my opinion. :/
 
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Maybe. They spend a lot of time working on the house, so I'm not sure how it'll work, but it would be nice. But there's people who live directly behind us with a big dog. They started paying me to walk their dog, but they had some issues and stopped. Now they've shown interest in paying me to do it again. That would be great since they're so close (and they just recently moved there, so they should be there a while) and I could get some money out of it.

He's adorable! He actually seems to like doing it too. He sits there and hits my hands while I try working with the others.

Haha, you don't have to worry. I prefer animals over people too. Except it's to the extent that it's probably unhealthy. I feel no need to have human interaction. I'm happy hanging out with my animals and have never felt lonely while I'm with them. I don't have people skills. Well, not many.
 

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That would be great. I hope your neighbors can resume your services.

I can imagine how adorable he is!! That is so cute.

:) We are not alone, I know so many people who think like we do. I actually think you have great people skills. I can see it here. Many more than you think. You have to do what you think is best. There are good people out there. A lot of bad but some good. I love hanging out with my animals as well. It is interesting, you actually strike me as very social. I think a lot of people would enjoy being around you. I enjoy our conversations so I know others would enjoy your company as well. I do hope you give some people a chance (but only the good ones!!).
 
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I hope so too though I'm not sure when.

It is. I love it. It's funny because, in reality, it's such a simple trick. It was pretty easy to get him to hit my hand when he would try to grab the treat from me anyway.

Yeah, I really don't. I'm writer, not a speaker. If I could speak half as eloquently as I could write, I'd be a lot better off. Being online reduces some of my anxiety and the fact that we've been speaking for a while now helps. I am about as far from social as it gets. I don't feel the need to make plans with people or anything which is probably why I don't have any friends. Well, one who I don't talk to much. My animals are enough for me, but I do need to get used to interacting with people.
 

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At least it isn't an urgent need.

You really think it is simple? I don't know, I am very impressed. It is awesome.

If you can write (which you obviously can) I guarantee you can speak well also. It may take some practice and it may take some thought organization but I know you can do it. Don't forget, everyone has anxiety when speaking to someone new and anytime we are at a loss for words or in a challenging spot. You are not alone in feeling anxiety or uncomfortable. You are obviously very intelligent so I know you can do it if you put your mind to it. It sounds like you choose not to have as many friends. I guarantee you would not have problems having friends if that is what you would choose. I think you have a lot to offer others, I hope you decide to let some good people in at some point. You have let me in so I know you can, you just have to want to. I guarantee they will be lucky and they will benefit. But I know what you mean, the animals are wonderful to be around as well. Whichever path you choose you will do well, you would be a great friend to others and you will take great care of your animals and loved ones. I truly know that.

I am going to try to teach mine the "high five". Let's see how it goes. :)
 
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It really is. "Sit" and "lay down" are some of the first tricks you teach a dog or cat because the animal already does them naturally. However, you still have to get them to do it. With high five, it's mostly timing. With Ash, it doesn't normally work for the first treat, but once he knows he's getting treats, he wants to grab them. So I just have to be ready to put my hand out and he'll touch my hand thinking I have a treat. It only takes a few times before they realize want you want from them. Getting them to figure it out is the hardest part, but with this particular one you're just turning something they're already doing into a trick. So it seems more impressive than it really is, but it's still cute to see them do it.

Yeah, well, I definitely need practice. When you write, you can change it over and over again until it's perfect. When you speak, it's all out there. You can't take make the mispronunciations or delete all the "ums" and "uhs" or rephrase what you've already said. I have trouble keeping things organized in my head. I know I'm not necessarily alone, but that doesn't always make it easier. To be honest, I don't know what my fear is. I don't really care what people think of me and yet I still want to do things perfectly. I don't like humiliating myself despite the fact that I really don't care if people think I'm weird.

I probably could, but I can't say I put as much value in those relationships as many do. Admittedly, I think part of my problem is not wanting to know where others stand on animals and their rights. I don't want to risk getting to know someone and then finding out that they're totally against animal rights or abusive towards them or whatever else, because it goes against everything I believe in and I just don't want to be in that situation. There's not as much of a fear of that on this site since I already know everyone here loves their cats and I feel like most of the people who respect their cats can respect other animals too.

I think you can do it. You just have to know what to look for and use actions they're already doing to your advantage. Ash is very handsy (pawsy?) when it comes to treats, so it was pretty easy to teach him. However, neither of the other two know the trick nor show any signs of learning it. So it does depend on the cat.
 

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I see your point. Interesting. My one cat likes to give "eskimo kisses". I say to her "eskimo kisses" and she does it. Of course she did before she knew what it is called. And my boy does "rollie pollie" and "flying cat" (where he is on his back and when I say that he stretches his hands out and his feet out like superman (but upside down). Now I am trying high five. Kinda fun.

I see your point. It is true, typing can be changed. But I bet your initial typed words are very good. Better than you give yourself credit for. I think maybe your desire for perfection might be the deterrent. But no one is perfect and if they are they probably practiced over and over. It is good to strive for the best possible (and even perfection) as long as it doesn't become a negative. I honestly don't think you would ever humiliate yourself. And if anyone takes it that way then they are not worthy of your friendship. It is not how a person says something it is the honesty and sincerity of the words spoken. You have this amazing personality and brain, you have nothing to fear and from my vantage point you are something wonderful.

That is understandable. It is good that you choose the path you want. The main thing is that you follow whatever path makes you happy. But I want you to know that each path is open for you from my perspective knowing you for as long as I have. I totally know what you mean about not being able to respect someone that doesn't respect animals. As long as it is your choice and you know that you have a lot to offer others then I think it is fine.

Interesting. One of my girls is very "handsy" (or "pawsy" as you point out). I should really start with her more than working on all of them. I didn't think about that. Good point. Let's see. :)
 
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Yep, the tricks they already did on their own are the easiest to teach. That's why Ember is being taught to "sit pretty" since she refuses to lay down and you can only get her to sit once. That's basically just getting her to sit up on her hind legs. It's something she did before to get food so it wasn't hard to teach it to her, whereas Frost has only done the trick a couple of times. Neither he nor Ash sit back on their haunches like she does. That's cute that your cats do a few tricks though. Mine only do what they've been purposefully taught. Well, Ember knows how to act cute for food, but she doesn't need a command for that.

Well, it's still better than my spoken words though I sometimes time too fast for my brain to keep up. Or for my fingers for that matter. I type "and" as "adn" a lot. I think I push myself when it comes to vocabulary, spelling, grammar, etc. because I am a writer and I do want to do public speaking, so it means a lot to me. I want to do my best and then I want to improve my best. I could definitely humiliate myself, but it's not something that should stop me. It's not something I want to stop me.

I don't like confrontation, so I don't really want to put myself in a situation where I have to. I love animals and I respect them, so I want and need to defend them, but I don't like starting trouble either. But I should definitely be able to put myself out there more and not back away from the chance to make friends or even just acquaintances.

Yeah, that's one of those tricks that's more about individual personality as well as timing. You can teach sit and lay down to almost any cat or dog because it's something they all do, but they don't all try to grab treats out of your hand. Some animals just won't do something. For instance, Stella refuses to roll over. I tried, but it was rare I could get past getting her to lay down. The second I'd try to get her to roll over, she'd freak out. It was something I just had to accept. Who cares about roll over when she can do spin, high five(using a certain paw depending on which hand you put up), high ten(both paws), up up(stand on back legs), and so many more? And Ember refuses to lay down. Why? I couldn't tell you. I might try again some time, but sit pretty is more impressive anyway.
 
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