Sparrow's Raw menu & progress

[Lyzzie]

Sparrow is a 4 yo male tabby rescue, he's been with us for 1 year.

I'm switching him to a Frankenprey diet, and after almost 2 weeks of getting him on timed meals (he was "free fed" a controlled portion of dry before), he and I are finally ready!

I already gave him chicken and chicken liver, which he just love, and rabbit liver, which took a bit of dried-freeze chicken treat crumbs for him to taste it, and now he's good with it.

I'm trying to get him to eat a chicken wing tip, and he tried at first, but now he just play with it... I'm gonna cut it up to see if the size was the problem.

I also have a few chicken necks for him to try once he's used to chew.

He's 6 Kg (13 lb) and it's his ideal weight according to the vet, he should go lower than that.

He's been very active since the switch to timed meals and chicken here and there, so I'm going for 4% of his body weight and go from there with weekly weightings.

So here's what I can source :

*Chicken :

- Legs

- Breast

- Liver

- Heart

- Deboned wings

- Wing tip

- Necks

*Rabbit :

- Liver

- Meat (don't know which cut yet)

*Duck :

- Meat (probably breasts)

*Turkey :

- Legs

*Beef :

- Heart

- Kidney

The beef is mainly in case I can't get enough duck or rabbit meat, and if I can't source kidneys.

He gets 4 meals/day, 60g/meal for 240g/day (2.2oz/meal for 8.5oz/day).

I'm still tweaking the weekly menu, I'm waiting to see what I can source easily, but in the meantime, what do you think?

 

[roguethecat]

Looks good: 5 types of meat, has some bones, liver and kidney. Just aim for roughly 5% bones and 5% liver, 5% kidney/other secreting organs over time. Over time can be a week or two or even three. 

I'd skip the chicken breast (that is, I'd eat it myself 

), not a lot of nutrition in there. Aim for dark parts of meat, they have more taurine.

And you can add chicken skin if you think he needs some fat. Remember, fat is good for cats, but if he should loose weight then no skin for him.

How about pork? My crew loves pork.

Welcome to the world of real food! 

 

 

[Lyzzie]

Thanks @roguethecat! I can already see some changes, he is so active!

I'm not going to try pork because I can't find any that are not soaked in sodium.

I trim a bit of the fat but not too much, I know it's good for him.

Today, he tried turkey, and decided he liked it. Same with duck liver! But he didn't want to try the duck heart... I'll keep trying tho.

Later I'm going to give him chicken heart and see how that goes.

 

[Lyzzie]

Day 1 :

Sparrow got all raw meals yesterday for the first time, and I could tell he loved it.

He was excited to eat, but he didn't beg for food between meals like he did with the kibble.

He also didn't drink any water, which concerns me a little bit, because he was a pretty good drinker for a cat.

But I'm thinking that the all raw is keeping him hydrated like he needs to.

A little bit of reassurance on that front would be welcome tho.

He got chicken and turkey, and took to turkey right away.

However, he would not try hearts. I tried duck and later chicken, no luck.

He has no problem with liver, he ate every kind I presented to him (chicken, rabbit and duck).

I'll keep trying, any ideas to make this more appealing to him? The FD chicken treat crumbs did not work.

 

[boney girl dad]

thanks for the report. i'm paying attention on how it goes for you. my cat has gotten really picky. she did eat some barbecued pork the other day lol.

 

[Lyzzie]

@Boney Girl Dad

Cats are just weird. I love it!

Day 2 (Aug. 7):

He actually drank water on Day 1, but really not much, maybe 1/4 of what it would have been on kibble.

So I'm happy with that.

He also had chicken and turkey, and on the 2nd meal ate his duck liver like a champ!

I gave him 1/3 of what it should be, and we're working our way up.

For meal number 4, I gave him 1/4 of chicken hearts, and he ate it all! I'm so proud

On the litter front, everything is fine, he's peeing like normal, but I have still to see poop.

So, it's all going really well, and he's so much happier, I can tell.

This morning (it's 10.30 AM on Monday here) I'm going to the market, and see what delicious meats I come home with.

And I still have to figure out how to get him to eat bones, but I'm not too worried about that, he's gonna have a balanced diet sooner than I thought.

 

[roguethecat]

for bones, you could try any small birds like cornish hen or quail. I found those much more liked than chicken or duck wings. Expensive but you don't need much (and think of what you save vet expenses on teeth cleaning)

As for making meals appealing, number 1: a bit of hunger always works 

 (as long as he eats once a day, no worries)

number 2: some things just don't appeal to a candidate. He's telling you he's a cat, not a dog. Your menu is big enough, if he doesn't like everything, he'll still be fine. Some meats are better liked than others. Maybe you can find more sources (rule of thumb: the darker the meat the better, also the cheaper cuts are best, they have more fat). Get creative. Talk to butchers, farmers, hunters, the like.

number 3: sprinkled catnip sometimes works

number 4, the hammer: the hammer is cat treats that you buy without looking at ingredients, smash up with mortar and pestle, and sprinkle. Worst case, whole treat offered on top of piece of offending meat. I got my Grisou eating adult rats this way (took some time, though)

 

[Lyzzie]

@roguethecat thanks, if I need it, I'll try some of these and see how it goes. He's actually eating hearts now, I think the temperature wasn't to his liking, he likes it cold!

Day 3 (Aug. 8) :

I got chicken and turkey legs from the market.

He watched me cut, weight and portion it.

Of course he got some of both, even tho he tried to steal a big chicken bone

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• Lyzzie
• Aug 8, 2016

 

[roguethecat]

That belly! Looks just like my Rascal! (That's the only one I'll never convert to real food, because he goes begging at my sister's house across the street for his fix of Fancy Feast)

Awesome. Rascal never lies on my bed like this! But he does like to roll in the dirt:

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• roguethecat
• Mar 30, 2014

 

[Lyzzie]

Well, Sparrow is "The King". He likes to lie on SO's chest, and then looks at me like "You know he's mine, right?"

He's also a talker. He will meows for everything. His purr is so loud, I've never heard anything that loud!

And he loves to use my legs as pillows at night. He knows I'm not going to move if he's there...

But just like Rascal, he loves to roll around.

That's actually one of his "I know I shouldn't have gone in the hallway, but look at me, I'm soooooo cute!" routine. He drives me crazy

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• Lyzzie
• Aug 10, 2016

 

[Lyzzie]

Day 5 (Aug. 10) :

4 turkey meals today, and a little progress on the eating bones front.

I got creative and skewered a piece of turkey meat on the wing tip. He ate all the meat, but chew on the wing tip a little bit, so now at least he knows it's food.

On the litter box front, #1 are good, but still no #2.

That's 4 full days now, I'm getting worried. I am right to be?

On the behavior front, he's more loving each day!

Today he stayed with me instead of taking his afternoon nap with SO upstairs, and demanded his Royal Bed again (which are my legs).

When he's on the floor, as soon as I'm getting close to him, he rolls around asking to be petted.

He was already doing it, but not that much. That's what got him the nickname "Chris Rolfield" (an homage to Chris Redfield, a Resident Evil character)

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• Lyzzie
• Aug 10, 2016

 

[roguethecat]

don't worry yet. It's entirely normal for raw-fed cats to go for some time without pooping. I can't tell you about mine because they prefer do do it outside, so no idea how often (unless they use a freshly planted flower pot).

Sparrow is lovely!

 

[Lyzzie]

@roguethecat Thank you. I was getting worried a little bit.

But I got poop today!

I forgot to post yesterday, so here is it :

Day 6 (Aug.11) :

Chicken & turkey today, with a little bit of rabbit heart. He never leave anything on his plate!

Same old same old with the litter box, pees but no poop.

From the beginning of the switch, he's now always looking behind him from time to time when he eats. I'm thinking that's probably instinct, he doesn't want anyone taking his food away ?

Day 7 (Aug.12) :

I never thought I'd be so happy to see poop!

We got poop! Yeah!

I didn't think to take a pic, but here's a description (if you're eating, please stop now...) :

About half the size of his "old" poop.

3 different consistencies : hard, soft, and very soft. I'm thinking I may need to introduce bones sooner rather than later.

Color was good, maybe a little greenish for the very soft part.

He tried to wipe his furry butt on one of the carpets, but I was ready for it, I wiped him gently, and he didn't like it, but he let me.

About 3 hours later, he went back to his bow and I could hear it : he has diarrhea.

I was just a little bit, but is there anything I can give him to help? I'm guessing it's normal at first?

(... you may resume eating now)

 

[roguethecat]

ok, That's not enough bones. In what I find in the box (they do have one. Two in fact!), I don't get anything with  diarrhea or green parts, in fact no soft parts at all. If broken in half, it's full of hair. Very much like what you find a coyote leaving out on the trails. And no need to wipe butts.

I recommend getting the quail ASAP, and no more liver / organs for, say, at least five days or until you see a decent poop. If you can't get quail, try cornish hens (just very young hens really). Or how about those rabbits, any bones in there?

Worst case, you can buy bone meal and sprinkle some on.

(... wasn't eating but drinking. Not put off by other cat's poop, not that easily 

)

 

[Lyzzie]

Ok thanks, I'll get him a quail tomorrow (I forgot yesterday).

He also had a sardine two days ago, do you think that could have "helped" the diarrhea?

 

[roguethecat]

no idea with the sardine - but probably not, because it will have had fish bones = calcium in it, right? My crowd refuses to touch raw fish (but will beg  gracefully accept scraps of cooked fish from the table). Generally sardines are a good idea because of the Omega-3, so keep at them.

 

[Lyzzie]

That's what I read too about the sardines. He's only going to get it once a week, but he loved it.

I still can't believe how easy he was to switch.

I'm Miss Questions today, sorry about that, it was going so well before, it just threw me off balance a bit.

What parts of the quail are the easiest to begin with?

If I can't get him to eat quail, I read about crushed eggshells. What do you think about that?

 

[Lyzzie]

Day 7 (Aug.12) : Continued

So, between the 1st & 2nd poop, Sparrow had a meal.

I introduced Beef Heart & chicken gizzards with his now usual turkey.

And, of course, he liked it.

So, for his last meal of the day, I gave him beef hearts again.

Yeah, that didn't worked out too well.

Had to clean some vomit during the night.

Good news is that it was two whole pieces of beef heart that he actually didn't chew.

So I'm pretty confident that he just ate too fast.

Litter box was fine, besides the soft & way softer poop.

Didn't happen again since, nor did the vomiting.

He also drank a bit more, which pleased me because of the vomiting.

Day 8 (Aug.13) :

I followed @roguethecat 's advice, and went to the market to buy Mr Cat some quail.

I also used this time to check out every prices.

And I found a butcher that actually keeps every scraps that he can't sell but that are of course edible, and presents them as animal food!

I was able to get 0.5 kg of beef hearts for 2€/kg. The liver was at the same price.

That is an awesome find! The cheapest I found until then was 6€/kg for beef heart. I don't buy liver because my mom can get if for free.

So, back to poop consistency control.

I got the quail (that is pricey BTW), and just cut one leg, one wing tip, and one boneless piece of breast.

Got it on his plate, and waited anxiously for the verdict...

He looked at the plate, looked at me, and then meowed loudly 

Plan B, I put some FD chicken treats on the meat.

And that did it! He ate the chunk first, and then tackled the leg.

I couldn't believe it, he ate bones! Well, one bone actually, he didn't want to touch the wing tip, just like with chicken.

But still, he ate bones!

The sound of it being crushed was surprisingly loud!

So, I'm now in the process of finally tweaking my weekly meal plan, and I will post it here as soon as I'm done.

I'm still struggling with the bone ratio, I know I need 90g/week, but I'm still confused with the calculations I need to make

 

[roguethecat]

Had to clean some vomit during the night.

Good news is that it was two whole pieces of beef heart that he actually didn't chew.

So I'm pretty confident that he just ate too fast.

could have been too cold? Or too fast. He'll get the hang of it!

But still, he ate bones!

The sound of it being crushed was surprisingly loud!

So, I'm now in the process of finally tweaking my weekly meal plan, and I will post it here as soon as I'm done.

I'm still struggling with the bone ratio, I know I need 90g/week, but I'm still confused with the calculations I need to make

well done! 

Personally, I do it without calculations. I feed them twice a day, mostly red meat and hearts, and make sure they get some liver, kidney and quail once every two weeks.

 

[Lyzzie]

OK, so I've been busy these past few days, mainly because I've been kicking myself about Sparrow's diet.

On the night of Day 10, he threw up again, chicken gizzards this time.

Poor sweetie, I didn't have any chicken or turkey left, and since he was eating hearts and gizzards, I thought he would be OK until I could go buy some more.

So after the second vomit episode, I gave him dry food just so that he would eat something.

He won't eat hearts or gizzards now.

On day 11 (yesterday Aug. 15), I went and bought him some Fancy Feast Classics (Gourmet Gold Terrines here in France).

He's eating that fine, no vomit.

I think I was so happy for him eating nice good food that I pushed him too fast with new proteins, hence the vomiting.

So for now, I'm gonna get him a rotation 2-3 brands of wet food, and see how it goes.

If he's happy with that, I'm going to work on getting him back on raw slowly, and go from there.

I can also balance every one of his raw meals and keep him on a wet/raw.

Whatever works best for us.

Also looking into probiotics, I just want him happy and healthy.

I will update this thread went I'm getting him back on raw.

For now, I just want to say, even tho it was overwhelming for me, that was really really fun to prepare meals for him.

For anyone who want to try it, please be sure you understand everything that goes into a raw diet, and take it slow.

I had read a number of times about going slowly, at the cat's pace. I thought I was doing that. Turned out I was not.

I should have got him on wet first, and then on raw (I also have read that lots of time).

OK, self-pity party over, on to finding good wet food now!

@roguethecat I had a cat named Grisou when I was young, I didn't think I would find that name in an American cat!

@Boney Girl Dad I hope you're going to try raw, it's so much fun, and we really bonded a lot in so little time!