SOS cat relationship problems!

[Brian007]

I'm probably going against the grain here but you could always try just leaving the doors ajar, getting on calmly with your daily routine, and see what happens....  It might be that after a day or two of hissing and the odd bout of fisticuffs that they get over it.  They must all be fairly fed up of the situation by now.  

P.S. feed them some of the delicious cat-calming treats that I mentioned before.  

 

[calicosrspecial]

Brian, I think we need to keep them totally separate and slowly associate with good things especially food. I guess I want the residents to be more confident before actually meeting. I also want the newcomer to have stronger confidence before any visual meetings let alone meetings without a barrier. I tend to be more cautious. I want them to be really use to their scent and without any negative confrontations so they are more likely to be accepting.

So for now I really want to keep them totally separated and only have them associate via scent (feeding on opposite sides of the door). During this time step up play and feed treats or a meal after play. Get them up in the world and keep giving them love (eye kisses) but don't put yourself at risk of being hurt in anyway.

So on play. Make the toy act like prey, like a mouse or a bird. There are probably videos on YouTube on how to play with cats. Have the toy act like prey. Then the cat watches and pounces just like they would with a mouse or a bird. Really build their confidence because that is what they do in the wild. Here are some videos to help on play.





It is normal for the resident cats to have a difficult time adjusting because it is their territory and their territory is being invaded by an unknown and possibly threatening cat (of course the newcomer isn't but they don't know that yet that is why we do the introduction.

I think your situation is very workable. Given your love and dedication and with the right process I am highly confident in time you will get them to get along. It is a process though with steps.

You are very welcome, we are happy to help you and your cats and have a lovely home life for everyone. We are here for you anytime. 

 

[nataly]

Hello! My misunderstanding of the subtelty of cat relationship prolonged the way for the cats to accept each other. In my haste i decided to put the screen instead of the door, the newcomer somehow broke through, the elder resident was so shocked they seized each other to my great grief, as it is my rash decision. You are right i should do it cautiously and slowly. I closed the door again, but i do not not what should i do with the younger resident who still keeps going to the newcomer's territory where they change hisses and punches. As a result, the elder resident isolated herself completely in the bedroom, she hardly eats and is very stressed out. and one of them keeps pissing and pooping on the carpet systematically. What should i do?

Allow me to ask you a question on completely different matter. Can you operate a 18 y.o. cat if a doctor analysed an ovary cyst? Cyst size matters, do i get it right? As i understand, operating such an old animal is very dangerous due to a slower tissue regeneration rate, anesthesia quality and surgeon's skill. This is not my cat, but i cried three days straight seeing a dying, mutilated living being. Do i get it right that it only amplified and sped up the suffering? Thank you for the answer. 

 

[Brian007]

Have you got three clean cotton gloves and tried to thoroughly transfer their scents into each other's territories?  You can buy packs of white cotton gloves from pharmacies.  Stroke each cat with their own glove, paying particular attention to under the chin, on top of the head, and on the back near the base of the tail, where their scent glands are located.  Then rub along all of the walls, door frames, sticking out edges, and furniture, especially the corners, at cat height in each other's territory.  Do this with all three cats and gloves, swapping their scents, frequently.  Make sure you know which glove belongs to which cat.  

When they stop reacting to the scent trails you have left on the walls, possibly wedge the door, with a rubber door wedge, open to just a tiny, slither of a crack that no paw, claw, or nose could get through?  Just enough so they could smell each other and sense each other's presence without actually being able to see each other.  What do you think @CalicosRSpecial? 

It's been 3 & 1/2 months now, you sound desperate.  

 

 

[Brian007]

Operating on an 18 year old cat is indeed very dangerous.  The benefits must greatly outweigh the risks for any such surgery to be considered.  Has the cyst been causing problems?   Is she in pain?  Has she been given any pain medication?  

 

[Brian007]

Did you try the Feliway friends diffuser and spray?  They would add to the general scent swapping atmosphere.  

 

[calicosrspecial]

Are the two resident cats getting along still? I will assume they are with the following advice. If they are not then we have to adjust but we need to focus on the older resident cat immediately.

I think we need to really start from scratch. keep them totally separated and we need to build the older cat';s confidence. The fact a cat is going outside of the litter box tells me that a cat (the older one?) is feeling incredibly insecure and feeling threatened. But it could be the younger cat if the younger cat is getting into scrapes with the newcomer.

Brian, I probably wouldn't do scent swapping right now. I think we need to start at the absolute beginning and stabilize the older cat's confidence and security. Reduce her stress. The fact the older cat is not eating is very worrisome. Combined with someone going outside of the litter box and we are in a bad place. We need to build the older cat's confidence (older cat cannot even see newcomer). Work to get her to eat, to feel comfortable in that bedroom. And also the other resident cat. Having them bat it out will not lead to happiness and just stress the older cat out.

Please keep them totally separated. And take it slowly. Given the stress of the older cat we need to stabilize her and get her to eat. Then to build confidence. Use food to build confidence and keep the newcomer cat totally away. Also keep the other resident cat away from newcomer and hopefully other resident cat can help build older resident cat's confidence. Make sure older resident is spoiled with good food (wet, anything she loves - I use warm chicken thigh meat). Then show older resident love, be calm and confident. Try to be as supportive as possible. Then at some point try to step up play. And try to get her up in the world (on dressers, cat trees, etc).

We have to take this slowly and rebuild the confidence of the older resident cat before we start moving forward. I truly believe this.

Hang in there, Brian and I will get you all through this. Please ask anything to help clarify the advice.

 

[nataly]

Thank you for your replies!

Now i know how right you were, Calicos with your advices. In my case, this is how wrong actions amplify the negative experience... I did it all from the start, because the door pane screen amplified the elder resident's cat insecurity. You are right that i should not let the younger res cat to the newcomer's territory. The newcomer at her turn behaves herself confidently - she slaps the younger res cat - so i decided to close the door again. I am very grateful for your support, now im drying the carpets. You support my optimist and my faith. I want to show you everyone in person.

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• nataly
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• nataly
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• nataly
• Mar 24, 2017

Amie - elder resident (black and white) and  Freiya - younger resident (black)

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• nataly
• Mar 24, 2017

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• nataly
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• nataly
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Varda - newcomer cat some years ago and now. Picked her up from the street many years ago. She recently returned to my household.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Thank you very much for the pictures, they are ADORABLE!!!

You are very welcome. We will get through this. It will take time and effort but if anyone can achieve it I know you can.

PLEASE keep us up on where you are and how things are going. 

I am sure I can speak for Brian that we will be here for you every step of the way. Let's get Amie more confident and build off of that. One step at a time.

Hang in there. We'll figure this out.

 

[nataly]

Hello! A quick update on what's happening now. I keep them separated, but Amie or Freiya - or both - are still marking the carpets in the bedroom and living room (their present territory). In brief moments of meeting with Varda (as i open the door to move from the living room to the kitchen, for instance) whoever meets her starts hissing and explicitly expressing themselves with low-tone roaring. The question i want to ask is - as Amie and Freiya now having their headquarters in the bedroom and in the living room, Varda has hers in the kitchen and bathroom (those were the dining room and toilet for Amie and Freiya before) - wouldn't that make Varda dominant, since now she has the feeding and toilet territory in her possession? Could that have a major impact on how things develop now, after the separation? Thank you in advance.

 

[calicosrspecial]

They are marking because they are afraid and they are saying "don't mess with us, this is our territory" by marking. They are feeling really insecure at the moment. So please step up play in their territory and feed after play. Try to keep them totally separated for now, no sight if at all possible, no scent swapping. We need to build their confidence before we can move forward. Also, if possible add some more litter boxes in the room (especially where they are marking) and if possible can you add a cat tree (or anything they can get up high) and a scratching post or two in there? 

I don't think it is a problem where Varda is right now. Amie and Freiya have their territory (they just need to feel more secure in it and feel like they totally own it). When we build their security and confidence they will be on the same level as Varda will be.

So please step up play with Amie and Freiya and feed after play. We need them to be secure and confident before moving on.

Please ask anything anytime. It is going to take some time but if we go one step at a time we can do it. 

 

[nataly]

Hello! Thank you for all your support and advice! As time goes, Amie and Freiya are feeling better, they've become more active and less stressed out, more confident. I am keeping them totally separated. But there's one nuance i want to ask about. The separating door is closed, but there's a vision slit there. And Varda spends her time watching through that slit, like a sentry, sometimes growling. How much of an impact does that circumstance have on the situation?

 

[calicosrspecial]

You are welcome, very happy to help.

I am so glad they are doing a little better. We have to take this slowly and one step at a time.

What we really want is for them to associate each other with good things and to accept each other.

We start with just scent using a closed door then move to sight. In your situation since we are getting some growling it is probably a bit early to allow sight. Is there a way to block the slit so Varda can't look in? We want to try to expose them to the most positive situations (no growling, etc) if possible then to move to the next step.

If Varda was not growling and just looking in once in a while then it would be fine. But since it could be interpreted negatively we would like to eliminate the chance of Varda growling and blocking off the slit for now could be helpful. 

Also, if you see Varda growling if possible if you can distract with play or food that could be helpful. We want to associate them with good things especially food. 

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions and how things are going. Keep up the great work!!

 

[nataly]

Thank you so much! I appreciate your help and support. It is only thanks to you i can have the pleasure of experiencing my cats- walking around, hugging me, laying on my breast, promising happy future, licking each other, they came down from their headquaters -again. I am able to experience joy again - all thanks to you. Varda growled out of surprise of the opened door and she saw Amie as a result. I can see they are both watchful, and visual contact - i agree with you - we shouldnt make haste with it. How would you evaluate this fact - when i take Amie and Freya's litter boxes to wash them - Varda greedily sniffs them with great interest - i believe this also plays an adaptive role in all this - am i wrong? And I also want to ask your opinion on one matter. What if i take everyone - Amie, Freiya and Varda outside, to the forest on a joint walk? After mournful events in my life - my dearest person's suffering and death - caressing cats were the first joy for me. Thank you so much. 

 

[calicosrspecial]

You are very welcome.

YOU are doing all the work and YOU deserve the credit. YOU have made the difference in their lives. THANK YOU for all your efforts making their lives better.

Yes, Varda would sniff them as she wants to know who is there, who is using them. I think that is fine as long as Varda is acting good and viewing the experience of sniffing as a positive. So if Varda seems happy and seems happy after sniffing then it is fine. If Varda is growling or getting defensive then we don't want her to be sniffing. Everything we do we want to make a positive association and limit any negative associations.

I would take Varda separate from Amie and Freiya through the woods. Again for now just to get them to adjust slowly. But if it makes you happier and they enjoy it then I think it is fine to do. Once they all get along better then you surely can take them all together but I wouldn't just yet.

I am so sorry about the loss of your loved one. I know how hard it is and I am so glad the cats can help you through these difficult times. Loved ones do always remain in her hearts close to us.

Please keep up the great work. I will be here for you every step of the way.

 

[nataly]

Day 891 of the building of Heaven... Varda, since her living territory includes kitchen as well, took it for a rule to sit at the vacant chair opposite to mine at breakfast and demandingly put her paw on my hand, expressively and explicitly looking in my eyes - all that in a way that i cant even put anything into my mouth - i have to explain her "you already had breakfast, i had none and, in the end, move from the chair..."  I think, to some extent, she feels her privileged position as, during the  day, i have to visit the kitchen far more frequently than the rooms with residents, for whom my visit looks more like a visit to the children in a hospital. And i eventually started having doubts - isn't that a twist? I believe she gets more of my presence, meaning - contact... Yesterday i stood still from a sound - i didn't know what happened - but the sound was as if Varda, who grew tired of observing cats from the slit made a series of punches with her paws - ninja style - in the closed door. It happens when a man hits the doors that closed for him personally - vexation, annoyance, anger, protest. Those are, of course, my assumptions as i did not see what exactly happened, but something else just couldn't happen - from my perspective.

I declared you my loss and i think the cats witnessed all that was happening, they felt what i felt better than anyone and all the changes in connection with that. They weren't ready just as i was not to the consequences of those events, Varda's appearance being a part of those changes. I have an assumption that me and my cats ended up in a more vulnerable position than Varda. Her obliged adaptability to these conditions multiplied all sorts of collisions in her life and because of that she takes such an active position. For instance, yesterday she snatched a fish piece from my plate when i wasn't aware and when i found it out and gave her the indignant eye she silently told me with her eyes expression "I can leave for good...to the bathroom" and independently she moved herself off. When i went to the cats room in the evening, Varda vigorously tried to open the door fold with her paws. The glass windows were shaking. And i couldn't distract Amie and Freiya. I'm telling you all that to illustrate Varda's persistent, vigorous strive for self-affirmation. After such a "statement" we all became sad. Varda has and open gaze and hidden defiance. I feel myself a student failing to pass the test. What do you think? It appears to me Varda, that had many dramatic and difficult moments in her life, now feels more confidence then I do myself. This is how i see it.

I difficulty telling what is more valuable to me - your support and sympathy or your advice and opinion. Huge and hearty thanks!

 

[calicosrspecial]

I am just thankful that you find all the effort helpful and am so appreciative of your appreciation.

There is no question in my mind that cats feel our emotions and take on our emotions. The bond we have with our cats is truly special. When we go through loss they feel for us and take on our hurt, our loss. Just as it can affect us and our behavior it can affect theirs. We have to be strong and supportive for each other. To heal from our loss, to build upon the positives. Being aware and understanding helps us in coping and improving. I know you will.

I don't think you are failing the test at all. In fact, I think you are preparing well. Every day we learn. Get inside their mind, understand what motivates them. Understand their fears, dreams and desires. 

Varda sounds like an amazing cat. Highly intelligent. But we all have our times of confidence and insecurity. And those show at different times. A confident cat usually does not want to attack because they are confident in their being, their status, their position. We need to reinforce that feeling. Why does a bully bully people? Because they fear, they are insecure. And they are more likely to bully a weaker person rather than a strong confident person. Same with cats. That is why building confidence is so important.

Varda must be reflecting your confidence with her. You must be doing more right with her if you feel she is getting more confident.

I have confidence in you. I know you can handle this journey. It will take time but I know you can do this. I will be with you every step of the way. 

Please always feel free to ask anything. Keep playing with them if possible and feed after play. Get them up in the world. Give them love, be as calm and confident around them as possible. Make sure they own their territory, so they walk around with their tail high with a swagger. Confidence. 

 

[Brian007]

 
Day 891 of the building of Heaven

It's a work in progress   

 

[nataly]

Take 895... It was a sunny morning... Yes, to my joy cats were calm, followed me, like lemurs, with their tails lifted vertically, but I had to go to a convenience store. When i got back, first thing I was were little feathers, drops of blood and Varda - the author...Obviously, she managed to catch a blue tit in a slightly opened window. I didn't find the body and I came to a conclusion that she ate it. I came out with a "protest action"... Resulting in Varda pitifully going to the second floor in the bathroom, I shut the door after her. I understand it all - hunting, etc. - but the fluff of those little feathers and blood droplets gave rise to a painful reaction. During the next two hours Varda didn't even try to sneak out of her room. It turned out the door to the cat's room was opened and initially Freiya, very cautiously, made it into the "neighbouring country" territory. I didn't put any obstacles in her way and after some time, Amie for the first time walked into her "enemy's" territory. She quickly inspected it and retreated to her safe place. When later I recover the closed door, she cats were sitting there, eyeing the door constantly. At the moment when I had to open the door and quickly com in, Varda found herself in Amie's line of sight, hissed and walked away. My "protest action" probably didn't introduce the best results into Varda's account. I am, of course not a "broken record" but I suppose I can not equalize their relationship. They are so different. Although I know you can teach a dove how to dance in 20 minutes, corroborating his successful moves... It appears to me Varda will still keep trying to build her dominant position, that she will never calm down. I had many animals in my life, I don't know how did it all work in a way that they were always in close relationship with each other, this is the first time I encounter such a self-affirmation problem. The photo with Varda serenely lying next to a guinea pig is an illustration of my assumption that it wouldn't go harder with the cats. For justice alone, the cats left their high places and practically returned to their essential level - floors, window-sills, book shelves... And it makes me glad. I hope this is not as fragile as it sometimes appear to me. Doctor... what should I do?