Sorry I Spam This Forum.. *spams Again* Opinions Wanted On I And Love And You

SpecterOhPossum

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Sorry for all the opinions-wanted posts, I frequent certain corners of the internet to ask for real-people reviews after conducting my own research on site reviews and so on; but we all know fake reviews exist. I'm phat considering taking my girl off of kibble because at the end of the day; she doesn't really like it & we waste tons and the only reason I was trying to keep her on it is for her teeth; and for fiber, but I'm learning neither of these reasons seem to make since because she hasn't actually eaten dry for weeks and her poop and teeth are normal - paired with the fact that I brush her teeth myself. Thoughts on getting her off dry? Is this a bad idea or not?

Anyhow,

TL;DR Does anyone have experience or an opinion on these foods?
1. https://www.chewy.com/i-love-you-whascally-wabbit-pate/dp/117026
2. https://www.chewy.com/i-love-you-variety-pack-grain-free/dp/121150


Do you think they could be her main diet? I need guidance. She likes to switch around; so my plan is to buy both and switch them around occasionally throughout the month but I worry. I've never tried feeding an all wet diet though admittedly due to the fact that she doesn't eat her kibble unless I soak it in homemade meat broth or sheba; she's been pretty much eating wet. I COULD venture to get a higher quality dry; but I'm scared it's pointless because at the end of the day, she really loves and prefurs meat chunks & fresher meat opposed to kibble. Should I bite the bullet and just keep a bag of kibble on deck for snacking? IS dry needed? Am I nuts? Cat guardians; I am lost. That's my usual state! Lost and confused and stressing myself into a frenzy over a cat who's naturally healthier than any cat I've ever met in real life..
 

Glitterizer

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Dry is absolutely not needed, quite the contrary, but it doesn’t hurt to keep a bag of it “just in case”. I say it’s better to feed a cheaper wet food than a “premium” kibble, always.

When trying to figure out if a brand of wet food is good you need to look for:

- A named meat as the first ingredient (the earlier the ingredient on the list, the more of it the food contains)
- No fish
- No grains and as little starchy vegetables (potatoes, pumpkin, etc) as possible.
- No soy or peas, that usually means part of the protein content is from these plants instead of the meat
- No carrageenan gum (some people avoid xantham and guar gum too but those aren’t as bad)

So it seems the food you linked is appropriate.

This isn’t strictly necessary, but I also think it’s a good idea to rotate a handful of different brands, if not every meal, at least every month or so. You don’t want to be feeding your cat the same thing for years on end, cause they could get picky, develop an allergy, “what if the food is discontinued”, etc. It’s also a good way of making sure your cat is getting a good balance of nutrients in case one food or another has too much or too little of something.

Another not strictly necessary, but generally good idea, is to avoid beef and other “red” meats: stick to poultry and rabbit.

You can find a wide array of info on cat-nutrition.org it’s I learned most of this!
 

Glitterizer

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Dry is absolutely not needed, quite the contrary, but it doesn’t hurt to keep a bag of it “just in case”. I say it’s better to feed a cheaper wet food than a “premium” kibble, always.

When trying to figure out if a brand of wet food is good you need to look for:

- A named meat as the first ingredient (the earlier the ingredient on the list, the more of it the food contains)
- No fish
- No grains and as little starchy vegetables (potatoes, pumpkin, etc) as possible.
- No soy or peas, that usually means part of the protein content is from these plants instead of the meat
- No carrageenan gum (some people avoid xantham and guar gum too but those aren’t as bad)

So it seems the food you linked is appropriate.

This isn’t strictly necessary, but I also think it’s a good idea to rotate a handful of different brands, if not every meal, at least every month or so. You don’t want to be feeding your cat the same thing for years on end, cause they could get picky, develop an allergy, “what if the food is discontinued”, etc. It’s also a good way of making sure your cat is getting a good balance of nutrients in case one food or another has too much or too little of something.

Another not strictly necessary, but generally good idea, is to avoid beef and other “red” meats: stick to poultry and rabbit.

You can find a wide array of info on cat-nutrition.org it’s I learned most of this!
Sorry, feline-nutrition.org, not cat-nutrition.
 

KarenKat

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No worries, you are not spamming and cat food is super confusing! There’s so much conflicting information out there.

I agree with everything Glitterizer Glitterizer just said. Dry food is cheap, convenience and most cats like it - and that’s where the benefits end. It doesn’t do anything for teeth, it’s filled with lots of biologically inappropriate ingredients like peas, potatoes, grains etc. it’s usually high on carbs (which cats don’t need) and can lead to weight gain.

The I and Luv and You, based on ingredients, is pretty good. I rotate a variety of flavors and brands and Olive has tried this one and seemed to like it (the Whaskilly Wabbit flavor). I think it’s a great food to try.
 

Maria Bayote

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Agree on all above.

Better to feed your cats wet food. Cats on dry food diet are more prone to obesity, but once in a while dry food is fine. I, too, am guilty of this. I feed my cats wet food most of the time, but since I have to work everyday I need to leave some dry food for them to munch on while I am not at home. However, when I get back it is not usually touched, or they have not even eaten half of the bowl of dry I leave for them, which is somehow good.
 

Azazel

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I agree with the others about ditching dry food.

Here's my assessment of the foods listed:

I like the chicken, chicken liver, turkey, turkey liver, rabbit, and beef liver ingredients of those 3 varieties. I don't really like cod as the first ingredient of the cod variety, but I think it would be fine if you fed that one occasionally.

Ingredients I don't like: spinach, cranberries, apples, carrots, natural flavor, sweet potatoes, alfalfa meal, guar gum, xanthum gum, cassia gum - there's too many gums and veggies/fruits in these.

My calculations for protein/fat/carb percentages:

Chicken: 32% protein, 53% fat, 13% carbs
Turkey: 36% protein, 43% fat, 21% carbs
Cod: 37% protein, 36% fat, 26% carbs
Rabbit: 37% protein, 36% fat, 26% carbs

None of these are ideal, they are either too high in fat or carbs in my opinion. For a decent canned food we would want >40% protein, <50% fat, <10% carbs.
Ideally, a cat's diet would be >50% protein, 30-40% fat, <5% carbs
 

KarenKat

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A Azazel - do you have a recommended food? I find if I avoid all of the gums and fillers I don’t often get an ideal fat/carb/protein ratio. Rawz has great ingredients but the carbs are still around 11% (as calculated by catfooddb.com, so maybe not the most accurate)
 
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SpecterOhPossum

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Dry is absolutely not needed, quite the contrary, but it doesn’t hurt to keep a bag of it “just in case”. I say it’s better to feed a cheaper wet food than a “premium” kibble, always.

When trying to figure out if a brand of wet food is good you need to look for:

- A named meat as the first ingredient (the earlier the ingredient on the list, the more of it the food contains)
- No fish
- No grains and as little starchy vegetables (potatoes, pumpkin, etc) as possible.
- No soy or peas, that usually means part of the protein content is from these plants instead of the meat
- No carrageenan gum (some people avoid xantham and guar gum too but those aren’t as bad)

So it seems the food you linked is appropriate.

This isn’t strictly necessary, but I also think it’s a good idea to rotate a handful of different brands, if not every meal, at least every month or so. You don’t want to be feeding your cat the same thing for years on end, cause they could get picky, develop an allergy, “what if the food is discontinued”, etc. It’s also a good way of making sure your cat is getting a good balance of nutrients in case one food or another has too much or too little of something.

Another not strictly necessary, but generally good idea, is to avoid beef and other “red” meats: stick to poultry and rabbit.

You can find a wide array of info on cat-nutrition.org it’s I learned most of this!
Thank you for the analysis - and that is a very good point! I've not considered a brand going out of order quite yet; you're right. I however buy in bulk so it wouldn't be terrible, but I might keep sheba on deck and in her life in case the other goes out of line. I very much like that input! Is there a reason behind no-red-meats? Spec personally doesn't like red meat; so I've not bothered. However I was unaware they're frowned upon! She's never had rabbit before but I am heavily considering getting her off chicken in some fashion as she's started itching as of late and I'm not sure what's causing it; pretty sure it's one of her foods; hopefully the dry as a chicken allergy would suck but oh well. She has seasonal bouts of issues; it when her winter coat comes in; she gets itchy, so that could be it.
 

Azazel

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A Azazel - do you have a recommended food? I find if I avoid all of the gums and fillers I don’t often get an ideal fat/carb/protein ratio. Rawz has great ingredients but the carbs are still around 11% (as calculated by catfooddb.com, so maybe not the most accurate)
I really don't... :( that's why I feed homemade raw. I think when I did the Rawz calculations last it was extremely high in fat.

I do sometimes give the cats Feline Natural when we are at work. I like the ingredients, but if you're only doing commercial food I think it's too high in fat. As you say, usually foods with quality ingredients are higher in fat to make up the cost. The only reason I feel okay about feeding canned food high in fat is because my homemade food is very high in protein and low in fat, so I feel like it balances out my cats' diets well.

I guess my advice to anyone doing commercial canned is to just rotate between higher quality foods that are high in fat and lower quality ingredients that are high in protein. Maybe a mix between something like Feline Natural (high in fat) and Weruva (high in protein)?
 

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Hello, Glitterizer. I'm just wondering why you have fish on your list of banned food for cats. Cats in the wild love it, particularly the fishing cat which you will probably only observe in the zoo. Well also you'll see lots of big cats on the TV hunting and eating fish. I am curious, because most cat foods that have fish in them are from fish farms, not the wild caught which oftentimes contains mercury. So since cats hunt fish in the wild and love to eat it why would it be harmful? Thanks.
 

Azazel

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Hello, Glitterizer. I'm just wondering why you have fish on your list of banned food for cats. Cats in the wild love it, particularly the fishing cat which you will probably only observe in the zoo. Well also you'll see lots of big cats on the TV hunting and eating fish. I am curious, because most cat foods that have fish in them are from fish farms, not the wild caught which oftentimes contains mercury. So since cats hunt fish in the wild and love to eat it why would it be harmful? Thanks.
The ancestor of most domestic cats didn't hunt for fish, it was a desert animal from North Africa. Fish is not a part of their natural diet. You're right that there are other cats in the feline family that do sometimes hunt fish, but the family of what we would consider domestic cats typically do not. Fish tends to be an allergen for domestic cats and can also be high in metals. The problem with pet foods is that we usually don't know the source of their ingredients and most of us don't want to take a chance on fish.

The ancestors of our house cats looked probably something like this guy hunting in the desert:



No fish for him.
 

sweet jane flash

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Interesting. We so adore tuna once a month. (only once a month because of mercury as I'm sure you know) The salmon we eat is farmed as I've heard it too is now polluted. I think a little variety is a good thing, but also so important to be careful not to change food too often. I admire your fearlessness about raw foods, because there have been so many instances of the dreaded evil Clostridium Family, which nearly made me go out of my mind with pain, hospitalization, and heartache watching my cat who got a different strain (decades later than my own) hers of the C. perfringens caused by too many antibiotics. Oddly enough my own C. difficile was caused by too many antibiotics also.
 

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Personally I recommend a Raw food diet, including bones. My 18 year old tabby (now passed) had clean healthy teeth and gums into old age and I never brushed them. Her health was good. She was active and alert for a senior cat. It's not the most convenient food, but it is the healthiest in my opinion.
 

Azazel

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Interesting. We so adore tuna once a month. (only once a month because of mercury as I'm sure you know) The salmon we eat is farmed as I've heard it too is now polluted. I think a little variety is a good thing, but also so important to be careful not to change food too often. I admire your fearlessness about raw foods, because there have been so many instances of the dreaded evil Clostridium Family, which nearly made me go out of my mind with pain, hospitalization, and heartache watching my cat who got a different strain (decades later than my own) hers of the C. perfringens caused by too many antibiotics. Oddly enough my own C. difficile was caused by too many antibiotics also.
I think it’s fine to feed tuna once a month. Yes, any food can be contaminated with bacteria. Kibble is also at high risk.
 

KarenKat

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I really don't... :( that's why I feed homemade raw. I think when I did the Rawz calculations last it was extremely high in fat.

I do sometimes give the cats Feline Natural when we are at work. I like the ingredients, but if you're only doing commercial food I think it's too high in fat. As you say, usually foods with quality ingredients are higher in fat to make up the cost. The only reason I feel okay about feeding canned food high in fat is because my homemade food is very high in protein and low in fat, so I feel like it balances out my cats' diets well.

I guess my advice to anyone doing commercial canned is to just rotate between higher quality foods that are high in fat and lower quality ingredients that are high in protein. Maybe a mix between something like Feline Natural (high in fat) and Weruva (high in protein)?
Thanks for the insight. I always thought homemade food (obv when done correctly) must be better because it’s fresh. Same with humans eating fresher foods compared with packaged.
 

KarenKat

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Hello, Glitterizer. I'm just wondering why you have fish on your list of banned food for cats. Cats in the wild love it, particularly the fishing cat which you will probably only observe in the zoo. Well also you'll see lots of big cats on the TV hunting and eating fish. I am curious, because most cat foods that have fish in them are from fish farms, not the wild caught which oftentimes contains mercury. So since cats hunt fish in the wild and love to eat it why would it be harmful? Thanks.
There’s also been a link between a fish diet and hyperthyroidism in cats. I also only feed fish intermittently or as a snack. Olive seems to love those freeze dried minnows.
 

Azazel

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Thanks for the insight. I always thought homemade food (obv when done correctly) must be better because it’s fresh. Same with humans eating fresher foods compared with packaged.
Yeah that is really one of the main reasons I do it. I feel like cats only eating processed foods is like a human only eating meals from the frozen meal isle their entire life. I just want to give my cats optimal nutrition.
 

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It looks like Dr. Pierson's charts (here) put the carbs for these foods considerably lower than A Azazel 's numbers... I say "looks like" because because Dr. P lists carbs as percentage of calories and I suspect Azazel calculated for dry matter basis, which would be a little different. If Dr. P's figures are still current (there could have been a recipe change that accounts for the difference -- this happens all the time!) the carbs for most of those foods would be pretty reasonable. (Which would make sense because the carby stuff doesn't come until after the tricalcium phosphate, which must be a small amount!) If I were considering the food, I'd check with the company to get the dry matter basis number (dry matter is the figure I'm most used to using!).

My personal view, though, is that I won't feed foods that have carrots or sweet potatoes, which are two of my "I draw the line" ingredients even if they're in small amounts. I'd also rather stay away from cranberries, which I think I've finally eradicated from the canned rotation, though it's still in Primal pork, which the cats won't let me discontinue. :oops:
 

Azazel

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It looks like Dr. Pierson's charts (here) put the carbs for these foods considerably lower than A Azazel 's numbers... I say "looks like" because because Dr. P lists carbs as percentage of calories and I suspect Azazel calculated for dry matter basis, which would be a little different. If Dr. P's figures are still current (there could have been a recipe change that accounts for the difference -- this happens all the time!) the carbs for most of those foods would be pretty reasonable. (Which would make sense because the carby stuff doesn't come until after the tricalcium phosphate, which must be a small amount!) If I were considering the food, I'd check with the company to get the dry matter basis number (dry matter is the figure I'm most used to using!).

My personal view, though, is that I won't feed foods that have carrots or sweet potatoes, which are two of my "I draw the line" ingredients even if they're in small amounts. I'd also rather stay away from cranberries, which I think I've finally eradicated from the canned rotation, though it's still in Primal pork, which the cats won't let me discontinue. :oops:
I didn’t calculate as a percentage of calories, but my values are probably different because they are based on as fed values on the can whereas Dr. P called each company for precise values. It could also be that the formula has changed since 2017. If it hasn’t though, her values would be more precise.

I prefer values as a percentage of calories over dmb because fat contains more calories than protein, so although dmb values might look good on the surface, you have to consider that the percentage of fat that is obtained from each serving is actually more than protein. When we say that we want moderate fat, it’s usually referring to calculations as a percentage of calories.
 

lisahe

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It could also be that the formula has changed since 2017. If it hasn’t though, her values would be more precise.
Something makes me think these used to have potato in them (which makes me wonder about formula changes) but I could be totally wrong!

And yes, the percentage of calories is definitely a better measure... but I got so stuck on dmb when we had a very sick cat that I just can't seem to switch my poor head over. (Though that's not really a big concern, given that the cats don't get much canned food!)
 
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