Socializing dogs and new cat?

[Lauramps]

Hi! First of all, I want to thank you for all the help given before - my kitty Pirilampo ("Firefly") is doing wonderful, eats a whole lot and we cuddle everyday.

She came home on the 26th of December, so she's been here close to two weeks. We immediately have her her own tiny room with bed, food, litter and toys so she could adjust - took a couple days but she eventually came out of her shell and she's the best, sweet girl.

Next step, however, is to introduce her to my not so lady back dogs - unfortunately we have an awful combination of a very shy and jumpy cat and two very excited dogs.

My female is 14 years old, is usually calm due to her age, however, she has a very dominant personality and is triggered by movement.

My male is 2 years old, very excited type. Both are not aggresive with her, but they will jump her when they see her move;

She is not terrified of them anymore - we've been doing desensitization for a bit now, by allowing her to listen to them and see them - I've been doing food time by making them eat on opposite sides of a door, and I've been doing some focus training with them by giving them treats and have them focusing on me while allowing her to roam/play where they can see.

So far, they have a good threshold - they are very food motivated and we can do about 10-15 minutes of training before they get too full of treats or focused on something else, but we can't seem to advance further: she is too scared to leave her safe room if the dogs are present, and they still get excited when they see her move.
I don't expect them to be best friends, but I would like her to be able to roam the house without being terrified - she has hiding places every room, but she has a particular spot on her safe room she will immediately run to. She is naturally shy and jumpy, so I don't expect her to change that part of her personality.
My puppers did fine with me sister's kitty, but she was more confident and aggressive and could defend herself easily - Firefly on the other hand is very passive and scared.

I've read a lot of articles about that socialization and how to go on about different kinds of match up - but I was hoping some person to person advice would enlighten me
I appreciate all the help. Thank you so much!

 

[Furballsmom]

they will jump her when they see her move;

This part of the equation is where I'm suggesting muzzles. My opinion is that you should just assume she knows more about this than you think, and let her have her own space that will never include the dogs.

 

[neely]

I'm glad to hear Firefly has her own safe room. That's one step in the right direction. Another would be to have high shelves in the rooms she goes into. Have your dogs ever lived with a cat before? This may be one of many reasons why they want to chase her. Unfortunately it's their innate instinct just like a cat's instinct is to chase mice. Our dog was fine with cats in the house but any cat he saw on our walks was a completely different scenario. He saw our cats as part of his pack.

Does your 14 year old dog have any common health issues for a senior dog, e.g. arthritis, cataracts, hearing loss, etc.? If so he may be more cranky at times and not as patient with your cat. The 2 year old on the other hand has a lot of excess energy and for that reason should be regularly exercised so that she's tired out when you chose a time to introduce Firefly. From your pics it appears that the younger dog is part Shepherd or Malinois, is that correct? Both are very intelligent herding breeds and can be trained. Have you considered having a trainer come to your home to work with the dogs when Firefly is out? Or have you taken either one of the dogs to obedience training? Are the dogs crate trained?

Since your cat has only been in your house for two weeks it's important to let her acclimate to her environment before introducing her to the dogs. And I always kept our dog(s) on a leash when introducing them to our cat(s). That way I could monitor their behavior. Firefly sounds like a sweetheart and I know you want her to feel safe. Therefore, I wouldn't rush the introductions.

Here is an Article that may have some helpful information and advice for you on introducing a cat and dog:
How To Safely Introduce A Cat And A Dog – TheCatSite Articles

Best of luck, please keep us posted on your progress and feel free to ask questions.

 

[Lauramps]

This part of the equation is where I'm suggesting muzzles. My opinion is that you should just assume she knows more about this than you think, and let her have her own space that will never include the dogs.

Hi! Definitely - she is a smart girl! Her safe room is available at all times, I just wish she would be able to roam the rest of the house comfortably as well without being too scared!
I thought about it - my fear is that the muzzles would stress my puppers and create a negative experience instead of a positive reinforcement.
Do you think this is definitely a good option? I believe kitty would still be scared of them regardless in this case :"(

I'm glad to hear Firefly has her own safe room. That's one step in the right direction. Another would be to have high shelves in the rooms she goes into. Have your dogs ever lived with a cat before? This may be one of many reasons why they want to chase her. Unfortunately it's their innate instinct just like a cat's instinct is to chase mice. Our dog was fine with cats in the house but any cat he saw on our walks was a completely different scenario. He saw our cats as part of his pack.

Does your 14 year old dog have any common health issues for a senior dog, e.g. arthritis, cataracts, hearing loss, etc.? If so he may be more cranky at times and not as patient with your cat. The 2 year old on the other hand has a lot of excess energy and for that reason should be regularly exercised so that she's tired out when you chose a time to introduce Firefly. From your pics it appears that the younger dog is part Shepherd or Malinois, is that correct? Both are very intelligent herding breeds and can be trained. Have you considered having a trainer come to your home to work with the dogs when Firefly is out? Or have you taken either one of the dogs to obedience training? Are the dogs crate trained?

Since your cat has only been in your house for two weeks it's important to let her acclimate to her environment before introducing her to the dogs. And I always kept our dog(s) on a leash when introducing them to our cat(s). That way I could monitor their behavior. Firefly sounds like a sweetheart and I know you want her to feel safe. Therefore, I wouldn't rush the introductions.

Here is an Article that may have some helpful information and advice for you on introducing a cat and dog:
How To Safely Introduce A Cat And A Dog – TheCatSite Articles

Best of luck, please keep us posted on your progress and feel free to ask questions.

Hi!! My dogs have been living with a cat for a bit now - my sister has one and they get along normally. My sister's cat, however, is calmer and more confident, so when she wouldn't run immediately when she saw them, my dogs lost interest.

My 14yo is healthy at the moment and is usually quite calm - but she is very excited at the sight of the kitty and will jump when she sees her move. My 2yo is definitely very energetic - he is, however, more passive than my female and more food motivated, so I'm able to keep him calm and focused on me longer when training.
They're able to stay close to her and even watch her move/play when I have treats, but as soon as she moves suddenly they get excited.

And yep! I'm aware it's still only a short period of time, so we're being patient and hoping she will be able to adapt better and feel less scared as time passes. My puppers are both mutts - my male was a rescue but I believe he might have a bit of herder on him indeed AHAHA he is very eager and energetic.

Luckily, they are not aggresive or wanting to bite her - but they play rough and it understandably scares her. I'm aware they need to come to a point where they will no longer be interested in the new kitty and just ignore her - I'm just not quite sure how to achieve that at the moment!

Thank you so much for the insight!!

 

[neely]

Thanks for your reply. I'm glad you are concerned about Firefly's safety and want the dynamics to work out. You didn't mention whether you have a crate. The reason is that would allow the cat to be out to investigate if the dogs are crated separately. Or you could have one dog out at a time so you don't overwhelm her. If you have a yard someone could stay in the yard with them while she is out. These are some options for Firefly to have free reign while the dogs are not excited. I would suggest thoroughly exercising them prior to putting them in a crate with a kong filled w/peanut butter as a treat. It might also help Firefly feel more confident since they won't pose as much of a threat to her. Last but not least, it's not a bad idea to talk to a trainer and if you like their approach have them come to the house for advice and guidance. I realize with Covid this may not be the best time to do that but you can also contact an animal behaviorist. Some of the shelters where I live have this available so if you adopted her you may want to check with the shelter she came from. Once again, best of luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for Firefly and the dogs.

 

[fionasmom]

I have always had dogs and cat together. Most of my dogs have been GSDs who are very motivated to please their owner. The last one was a huge boy who responded to the command "kitty no no" and this one was rescued by a cat rescuer as a young pup and so bonded to them immediately. My experience has been that a cocky self assured cat can put dogs in their place and the dogs seem to read that energy. I had a tortie who used to walk over and smack the big boy in the face and walk away and he cried like a baby. However, a cat who is frightened might be perceived more as prey and so I do agree that it is on the dogs to be controlled and that some training would be a good idea. I understand your reticence with muzzles but I would not hesitate to use one if necessary as a training tool.

 

[Furballsmom]

I believe kitty would still be scared of them regardless in this case :"(

Of course, but she won't be at risk.
The thing is that motivated dogs can be very fast. Cats, especially one who's not completely comfortable with or familiar with her environment and additionally seeing two dogs, might take that small little bit of extra time needed to make a decision about which way to go which might be just that little bit too long, and you don't know at this point what might take things from play to serious in the dogs' minds.

 

[Lauramps]

I have always had dogs and cat together. Most of my dogs have been GSDs who are very motivated to please their owner. The last one was a huge boy who responded to the command "kitty no no" and this one was rescued by a cat rescuer as a young pup and so bonded to them immediately. My experience has been that a cocky self assured cat can put dogs in their place and the dogs seem to read that energy. I had a tortie who used to walk over and smack the big boy in the face and walk away and he cried like a baby. However, a cat who is frightened might be perceived more as prey and so I do agree that it is on the dogs to be controlled and that some training would be a good idea. I understand your reticence with muzzles but I would not hesitate to use one if necessary as a training tool.

Absolutely! My sister's kitty was definitely self assured and my dogs rarely ever messed with her - but she wouldn't run or jump when she saw them. Mine on the other hand flees immediately, so she doesn't take interest into exploring the house - she will take a couple steps, get scared by something and run back.

Unfortunately I need two things to work together - for her to be able to stay in their presence to positively reinforce them and for them to finally lose interest in her :'(
I will definitely look into trying a muzzle.

They are very food motivated so I'm hoping our positive reinforcement training with treats will start working eventually - my goal is to desensitize my dogs to the cat by rewarding them when they focus on me instead of her.

Thanks for your reply. I'm glad you are concerned about Firefly's safety and want the dynamics to work out. You didn't mention whether you have a crate. The reason is that would allow the cat to be out to investigate if the dogs are crated separately. Or you could have one dog out at a time so you don't overwhelm her. If you have a yard someone could stay in the yard with them while she is out. These are some options for Firefly to have free reign while the dogs are not excited. I would suggest thoroughly exercising them prior to putting them in a crate with a kong filled w/peanut butter as a treat. It might also help Firefly feel more confident since they won't pose as much of a threat to her. Last but not least, it's not a bad idea to talk to a trainer and if you like their approach have them come to the house for advice and guidance. I realize with Covid this may not be the best time to do that but you can also contact an animal behaviorist. Some of the shelters where I live have this available so if you adopted her you may want to check with the shelter she came from. Once again, best of luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for Firefly and the dogs.

Definitely! In my country, create training is very unheard of - while I believe it's a great method of training we don't really have them here and it's very rare to find them I live in an apartment, but we do have a varanda they have access to and it's really blocked to allow her to access it or a part of it. She is able to roam on select times of the day, since my puppers often nap during the afternoon and she has access to a great part of the varanda that they can't access - however, she won't go out at all if they're around the living room or my room. At the moment, I'm working on desensitize them, since it should be easier to do it with her once they're calmer around her - so we're still doing lots of training and treats.

I will definitely look into talking to a trainer - but I believe it will be another work to get the kitty to like him AHAHA
thanks for the insight!

 

[Lauramps]

Of course, but she won't be at risk.
The thing is that motivated dogs can be very fast. Cats, especially one who's not completely comfortable with or familiar with her environment and additionally seeing two dogs, might take that small little bit of extra time needed to make a decision about which way to go which might be just that little bit too long, and you don't know at this point what might take things from play to serious in the dogs' minds.

Hey! Coming in for an update.
Firefly is doing great! She is now much calmer around the puppers and, looking around with some trainers, we figured our situation isn't nearly as bad as some I got to see - my puppers are excited, but daily, we can get them to eat close to one another, I've been leash-training them (on different times of the day, I can't handle two dogs together AHAHAHA) and they can stay in the same room and close together without focusing in Firefly, although if she moves too suddenly or jump it still breaks their concentration.

Today, I even got my older puppy and Firefly lying together on the bed! Lots of treats, and some ugly faces, but they got to nap close to each other. We have a long way to go still - definitely no unsupervised visits, and I couldn't get her to leave her safe room yet, since I think it makes her feel too exposed and she hasn't gotten to explore the rooms and possible hiding places. But I'm hoping we can eventually all hang in the same room without having to pay attention to leashes and jumping kittens.

Any more advice on what I can do to make things to smoothly would me amazing!

Fortunately there hasn't been a need for muzzles yet.

 

[fionasmom]

That is great news! Firefly looks pretty relaxed in that pic.

 

[three4rd]

I have always had dogs and cat together.

The term "always" doesn't quite apply to me - although a span of a good number of years is applicable...but I don't feel in any way that it has been as successful as I would have liked it to be. Our one cat wound up basically being relegated to a basement pool table cause anytime she ventured upstairs the dog would chase her back down. I still feel bad about this years after both of them are now gone. I do NOT want our cat to experience a similar situation - it just wouldn't be fair to her - being an 11-yr. old very calm and very peaceful companion. Wonder if getting a fairly older dog might be the best option? At my age, I'm surely not into the puppy thing anymore. Heaven forbid.

 

[fionasmom]

There are so many ins and outs to dog and cat relationships that you should not blame yourself. My neighbor has owned a very charming little Pomeranian for several years now. Reason....he killed the previous family's kitten and they got rid of him.

Puppies are trainable, but a lot of work. I have only ever had one puppy, this one who is now almost 15. Everyone else was an adult when I rescued them. If you wanted another dog I would seek out a source where they had information about the dog and cats. Some rescues do "test" them, an owner surrender would probably know, shelters usually do not.

My dogs have all been wonderful companions, if very high maintenance from a health perspective, culminating with the current one who has a ton of medical issues. He is probably the last dog and I don't seen running back into the fire one more time with huge expenses.